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Old March 7th, 2019, 05:34 PM   #7801
Due East
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So it turns out.

£4.40 for a short return journey on a manky bus, without the ability to make a transfer isn't exactly good value though.

Yet again, their pricing structure seems to go out of its way to alienate all but season ticket holders.
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Old March 7th, 2019, 08:37 PM   #7802
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you'd probably been cheaper buying 2 singles, is it not £2.20 for a single?
2.40 i think now ? When did they change the small fare for under 5 stops? Apparently its 1.65 single out to cathcart , Bridgton etc ? But 2.40 outside that.
Hamilton to Glasgow single is 5.10 single ouch
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Old March 7th, 2019, 08:47 PM   #7803
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And for that money you're getting a service:

* that is infrequent and often doesn't show up
* where buses are filthy, and either freezing in winter or sweltering in summer
* that has grumpy drivers who shout at cyclists and start fights with pedestrians
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Old March 14th, 2019, 02:45 AM   #7804
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SPT Regional Transport Strategy

Link to fill in the survey for the SPT Regional Transport Strategy;
http://spt.co.uk/vision/#5c8907b19cbb21.71482215
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Old March 14th, 2019, 08:42 PM   #7805
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Trams!
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Old March 15th, 2019, 01:18 AM   #7806
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Glasgow Airport rail link (a proper one)

Extending the subway together with converting the overground lines into a high frequency metro service, thus creating a dedicated city wide Greater Glasgow transport network (like TFL in London, or Newcastle metro)

Trams where services are scarce (east end and parts of north Glasgow)

A smartcard that can be used across all public transport services

And of course...Glasgow Crossrail!
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Old March 15th, 2019, 01:03 PM   #7807
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Iíd even just settle for a working bus service including night buses.
I see that First is ďthreateningĒ to improve its services in West Lothian due to Lothian buses. I wish we had a similar municipal bus company here to force First to not be so sh*te
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Old March 15th, 2019, 09:20 PM   #7808
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Quote:
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Got on the bus for the first time in many months. Fairly short return trip, didn't have time to walk.

Me:Can I have a return please?

Driver: Don't do returns any more, you need to buy an all day.

Me: I'm only making a return though

Driver: aye, but now you can use it all day.

£4.50 for a flipping short return trip. And they wonder why nobody uses the bus?
The bus system in Glasgow is an absolute disgrace. Every other city I've been to has a better one. Rome, where the bus drivers consider it a bad day if they don't cripple a cyclist, has more polite service. Edinburgh, a city half the population of Glasgow where the city centre is so small you don't even need to get the bus as a tourist, has a beautiful fleet of buses all run by the same company. Bratislava, a city which until relatively recently was only the third wealthiest in Communist Czechoslovakia, has automatic ticket booths, an extensive tram system and a unified and easily navigable bus system. Meanwhile having grown up in Glasgow for 20 years I still would rather get an Uber than the bus. Easier and often not really much more expensive.
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Old March 16th, 2019, 01:03 AM   #7809
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Edinburgh has a good bus system because it has no other option to survive. If the Lothian Buses network had fragmented, the result would have been quite catastrophic for large areas of the city where there are no other options. For instance, the people of Morningside would have been distraught if they couldn't get the bus into the city centre for work given the general difficulty of parking at either end and driving.

Glasgow, on the other hand, had the double whammy of an excellent suburban rail network and a road network capable of getting people pretty much anywhere in the city. When people moved out to the suburbs and exurbs, the train became the default public transport option to get into the relatively small remaining urban core surrounding Central and Queen Street. The well-heeled of Glasgow could live out in places like Milngavie and never have to consider the quality of bus services.
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Old March 16th, 2019, 01:34 AM   #7810
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Live in a place like Castlemilk and see what choices you have. Buses and nothing else and even they've been cut back to a bare minimum.
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Old March 16th, 2019, 02:15 PM   #7811
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Quote:
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Live in a place like Castlemilk and see what choices you have. Buses and nothing else and even they've been cut back to a bare minimum.

I forgot to emphasise the 'well-heeled' part in my original post. When well-heeled folk are dependent on buses, then the city bus network will be good. When well-heeled folk don't need the buses, then the people who do depend on them lose out.


This is actually a reason why we should seriously consider serving well-heeled areas with future tram lines even when they don't 'need' it as much as worse-off areas. For instance, it should be possible to extend any tram line via the Botanics through Maryhill and up to Bearsden. That would mean the well-heeled of Bearsden would have an incentive to improve the tram service through Maryhill and to the other side of the city where it'd end up.
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Old March 16th, 2019, 07:45 PM   #7812
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I’m an occasional bus user and every time feel I’m using it as a last rather than first resort:

* real-time trackers have been about for decades so why do we still have “dumb” time displays, you know the ones that go .... 4 minutes, 3 minutes, 2 minutes, 1 minute, nah not coming mate!
* last bus I got was a 54 plate so fifteen years old and rattled and banged every step of the way. I’m sure mechanically it’s ok to keep one running that long to recoup the investment but they need some maintenance of suspension components. (Granted I see a welcome few new buses in some routes this year, 75, 38 and a few others).
* if you have to change buses it’s two fares, but a single trip can cover the same distance for half the money. Again technology has been around for years to deal with this (oyster?)
Above three are laid at First’s door but my last is at society in general.
* people! Why have so many people lost respect for others. Leaving rubbish on the bus, shouting and bawling across the bus, playing music too loud, when it’s busy not shoving up and letting someone else sit down, leaving the bus stops in a state.

Oh and finally, Union Street. It’s just horrible and I’m not sure what the new bus stops have achieved, if anything. The continuing saga of Egyptian Halls is an embarrassment and is to a large extent dragging down the rest of the street.

I disagree with an earlier post though about the drivers. I find them mostly pleasant, and I like when passengers say thanks when getting off the bus.

Last edited by cityboy999; March 17th, 2019 at 01:28 AM.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 11:42 AM   #7813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1M14 View Post
I forgot to emphasise the 'well-heeled' part in my original post. When well-heeled folk are dependent on buses, then the city bus network will be good. When well-heeled folk don't need the buses, then the people who do depend on them lose out.


This is actually a reason why we should seriously consider serving well-heeled areas with future tram lines even when they don't 'need' it as much as worse-off areas. For instance, it should be possible to extend any tram line via the Botanics through Maryhill and up to Bearsden. That would mean the well-heeled of Bearsden would have an incentive to improve the tram service through Maryhill and to the other side of the city where it'd end up.

I take issue with the well heeled comment about bearsden. I live here, and I'm skint!


However, its worth pointing out that the bus service to bearsden servers the area well, until 7pm, when it becomes useless, 1 bus an hour to Gartnavel..... never anybody on it... however, the existing service serves the 'older' people of Bearsden well, they get on with there free pass and use the service heavily, hence there are 5 buses an hour until 7pm.


Something needs to be done to lure the younger people up here out of their cars, and maybe thats trams, but frankly, if the bus was free for all, not just the elderly, then that would be excellent. Bearsden is choked with traffic all day, so if it takes trams, then build them, but I can't see it happening, we simply cannot get people out of their cars...
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Old March 17th, 2019, 02:20 PM   #7814
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This isn’t a chicken and the egg scenario, nor is it rocket science. If you provide high quality, reliable public transport, at prices deemed affordable, and at frequencies that are sensible, then people will switch from their cars. You can further encourage that trend by making the city centre less car-friendly and more pedestrian-friendly.

There’s a whole host of reasonable preconditions for tram routes, one of which is the need to increase capacity, to augment other forms of transport. Clearly, no-one would be recommending building a tram line to Bearsden. Central to the airport via QEUH, sure.

The biggest improvements that can be made to transport in Glasgow relate to buses. SPT need to be allowed to either form their own bus company, like Lothian, to compete with the likes of First, or run bus concessions under a unified brand, as Transport for London does.

In both scenarios, local government begin to take back control and mandate a certain level of service and quality. Again, in both scenarios, the goal is to turn a profit, so they will need to try hard.

Moreover, something that Transport Scotland should have had up and running 10 years ago, is pay as you go smartcards, or even simply pay as you go contactless with automatic fare-capping. Allowing people to seamlessly switch between transport modes to reach their destination without worrying about tickets is an absolute game-changer. We should be screaming loud for this.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 02:39 PM   #7815
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This isnít a chicken and the egg scenario, nor is it rocket science. If you provide high quality, reliable public transport, at prices deemed affordable, and at frequencies that are sensible, then people will switch from their cars. You can further encourage that trend by making the city centre less car-friendly and more pedestrian-friendly.

Thereís a whole host of reasonable preconditions for tram routes, one of which is the need to increase capacity, to augment other forms of transport. Clearly, no-one would be recommending building a tram line to Bearsden. Central to the airport via QEUH, sure.

The biggest improvements that can be made to transport in Glasgow relate to buses. SPT need to be allowed to either form their own bus company, like Lothian, to compete with the likes of First, or run bus concessions under a unified brand, as Transport for London does.

In both scenarios, local government begin to take back control and mandate a certain level of service and quality. Again, in both scenarios, the goal is to run a profit, so they will need to try hard.

Moreover, something that Transport Scotland should have had up and running 10 years ago, is pay as you go smartcards, or even simply pay as you go contactless with automatic fare-capping. Allowing people to seamlessly switch between transport nodes to reach their destination without worrying about tickets is an absolute game-changer. We should be screaming loud for this.

Agree with this all but you've left out a vital component. If you continue to subsidise and encourage driving, you won't get the sort of modal shift we need.


Make drivers pay the real cost of driving and stop with subsidies like freezing of fuel duty, along with your other measures, then driving will decline I think.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 06:20 PM   #7816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gghdev View Post
This isnít a chicken and the egg scenario, nor is it rocket science. If you provide high quality, reliable public transport, at prices deemed affordable, and at frequencies that are sensible, then people will switch from their cars. You can further encourage that trend by making the city centre less car-friendly and more pedestrian-friendly.

Thereís a whole host of reasonable preconditions for tram routes, one of which is the need to increase capacity, to augment other forms of transport. Clearly, no-one would be recommending building a tram line to Bearsden. Central to the airport via QEUH, sure.

The biggest improvements that can be made to transport in Glasgow relate to buses. SPT need to be allowed to either form their own bus company, like Lothian, to compete with the likes of First, or run bus concessions under a unified brand, as Transport for London does.

In both scenarios, local government begin to take back control and mandate a certain level of service and quality. Again, in both scenarios, the goal is to turn a profit, so they will need to try hard.

Moreover, something that Transport Scotland should have had up and running 10 years ago, is pay as you go smartcards, or even simply pay as you go contactless with automatic fare-capping. Allowing people to seamlessly switch between transport modes to reach their destination without worrying about tickets is an absolute game-changer. We should be screaming loud for this.

I don't think building a tram to Bearsden is particularly important. We haven't seen many concrete and viable proposals for tram lines in Glasgow (there's the Strathclyde Tram Line One, the perennial Paisley/Airport to Central via Braehead and the tram-train conversion of the Cathcart Circle/Maryhill line) since no one has ever really set out a proper plan like Edinburgh's LRT study of 2003.


Bearsden is just an idea I have for the resurrected western section of the Strathclyde Tram scheme. In that, the tram would go via the Botanics up to Maryhill, terminating at the Tesco. I think a reasonable follow-up scheme would be for this to be extended up Maryhill Road to interchange with the NR/tram-train line at the station and also the West of Scotland Science Park. Once you're there, going that bit further into Bearsden wouldn't be a big challenge but you'd then open up a nice new link. Given that there were originally plans to build a motorway up to Canniesburn Toll from the M8 it seems plausible there's enough demand to make a tram worthwhile, especially one via the West End.


The key point is that public transport systems work best when they're used by all in society, including those with the greatest political power. Trams are attractive to people who wouldn't dream of getting a bus, but will happily get trains and subways. When integrated correctly, a tram network can make a bus network more viable and more effective. Someone who is now happy getting a tram will be easier to get to use a bus sometimes, especially if their tram ticket gives them access to the buses anyway. Then they may never need to drive to get around.
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Old March 17th, 2019, 06:22 PM   #7817
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I think the top transport priorities should be things to use what we already have better. There’s a tendency to think of public transport improvements in terms of grand projects - airport links, trams, subway extension etc

In Glasgow we have one of the best suburban rail networks in the UK, a subway and a reasonably extensive bus network - however none of this works particularly well as one system, as there’s very little integration, and there are gaps in coverage

Incremental improvements such as integrated ticketing, better over-arching management and promotion of the transport system, and service frequency improvements etc are most likely to be realisable in the short term and have the potential to make a big difference overall

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Old March 17th, 2019, 06:49 PM   #7818
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Trams are attractive to people who wouldn't dream of getting a bus, but will happily get trains and subways.

Why would people never dream of getting a bus? What is it about buses that make people look down their noses at them? They're just a form of transport - why the snobbery?
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Old March 17th, 2019, 08:43 PM   #7819
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Quote:
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Why would people never dream of getting a bus? What is it about buses that make people look down their noses at them? They're just a form of transport - why the snobbery?
Indeed. People wouldnít swap from cars to trams either if the trams were run like First Bus. The problem with First, specifically, isnít that people are inheritently reluctant to use buses, itís because their overall service is poor.

People donít generally have an aversion to using buses in Edinburgh. I agree thereís more to it, in that culturally Edinburghers accept buses as the primary form of public transport and generally the buses are more convenient than driving into the city centre. The fact that the city has historically been smaller plays a part, perhaps.

The point is, though, that you donít need flashy public transport to convince people, you just need really good public transport; reliable, frequent, clean, and easy. Then you seek to change perceptions. Trams might win over some stragglers ó maybe someone can look at some case studies ó but step 1 in promoting public transport is to just get the basics right, Iíd imagine?
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Old March 18th, 2019, 12:13 AM   #7820
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Agree with this all but you've left out a vital component. If you continue to subsidise and encourage driving, you won't get the sort of modal shift we need.


Make drivers pay the real cost of driving and stop with subsidies like freezing of fuel duty, along with your other measures, then driving will decline I think.
Freezing fuel duty isn't a subsidy. It just means you're not taxing it even further than it already is. I can't think of many other products taxed at over 100%.
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