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Old February 21st, 2005, 05:29 PM   #21
Czas na Żywiec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivernorth
sports teams? thats really subjective. and when it comes to baseball, i think Chicago may have the upper hand

scenery is really debatable. Denver has mountains in the distance, yeah, but Chicago is right on a massive body of water. A wide blue expanse is our scenery, and it definatly beats the plains

Outdoor activities? You got beaches?

You beat us in the weather department though. Its usually warmer, and you get more snow (which is a plus for me... im a snowboarder).
Overall, Denver is really a great city. Went a few years back, checked out 16th Street, and when to a game at Coors (Rockies vs Phillies). Good times.
Yes, the mountains get more snow, but for actual snow accumilation in the city, we get far, far less than Chicago. Summer, the weather is more comparable, only we don't have the horrible thing known as humidity.

Don't get me wrong, I was born and raised in Chicago for 15 year and I love it, but the humidity, you have to admit, sucks.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 12:33 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milehi
I can honestly say that I feel Denver is the best city in the midwest behinbd only Chicago overall. And I feel we beat Chicago in many areas as well. But that is anotehr thread. On a side note, it sure is nice have 73 degree days in Denver in the winter! And downtown was rocking this weekend. So many celebs that they had to have limos come in form Atlanta to keep up with the demand for the ultra rich and snotty celebs!
Having lived in Denver (off Mississippi) and now in Minneapolis, I know there is no way Denver is second behind Chicago. Yes, Denver has great winters and a descent sports scene (the city inherited a great hockey team, but look where they're at now), but these are factors that have nothing to do with a city's greatness. If you look at what Minneapolis has to offer in terms of business climate, employment, education, GMP, etc., it becomes clear that Denver trails.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 01:57 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twincities03
Having lived in Denver (off Mississippi) and now in Minneapolis, I know there is no way Denver is second behind Chicago. Yes, Denver has great winters and a descent sports scene (the city inherited a great hockey team, but look where they're at now), but these are factors that have nothing to do with a city's greatness. If you look at what Minneapolis has to offer in terms of business climate, employment, education, GMP, etc., it becomes clear that Denver trails.
I did not know that 17th place in per-capita income was higher than 15th place. Denver Metro has a higher PCPI than Minneapolis metro. The BEA for Denver excludes Boulder, Broomfield and El Paso Counties which are part of well-connected economically.

17th place is better than 15th, most be some of that Minnesota math

Also, the cost of living index is 111 for Minneapolis and 104 for Denver, 2nd quarter 2004

So if you adjust it, Denver residents have much more spending per capita than Minneapolis residents do.

Business climate: Colorado has a reputation of A's for being friendly to business

Education: University of Colorado Denver, University of Colorado Boulder, University of Colorado at Colorado Springs, Metro State at Denver, Colorado School of Mines, Air Force Academy, University of Denver, Naropa Institute, Regis University, University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Art Institute of Colorado, Colorado College and many more colleges and technical institutes. You seriously think Minneapolis can compete with Denvers education base??

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Old February 22nd, 2005, 02:28 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denvernative1982
You seriously think Minneapolis can compete with Denvers education base??
LOL! Easily.

Minneapolis area has 20 Fortune 500 companies and about another 17 on the Fortune 1000 list. How many does Denver have? Minneapolis is home to Cargill, the largest private company in the US with revenue of about $60 billion and over 100,000 employees. Does Denver have any company even close to this size?

As of 2003, the Minneapolis area had a GMP $135billion dollars (ranked 12), Denver wasn't even in the top 20.

I'm sure you know the Minneapolis area has been ranked as the most literate city in the US and St. Paul isn't too far behind.

The Minneapolis metro area has:
University of Minnesota
University of St. Thomas
College of St. Catherine
Hamline University
Bethel College
Augsburg College
Concordia College
University of Wisconsin - River Falls
McNally Smith College of Music
Capella University
Metropolitan State University
Brown College
Northwestern College
Art Institutes International Minnesota
St. Paul College
North Hennepin
Normandale
Minnesota School of Business
Minneapolis Community & Technical College
Minneapolis Business College
Inver Hills
Herzing
Hennepin Tech
Dunwoody College of Technology
Century College

I'm not even finished with the metro area. Here's a few located within the Minneapolis CSA

St. Cloud State Univesity
St. Olaf College
Carleton College
etc....

Denver may have the better weather, the mountains and a large airport but it's a definitely a tier below Minneapolis.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 02:56 AM   #25
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Well, The Bureau of Analysis excludes Broomfield and Boulder counties less than 10 miles from the city limits. Maybe you exclude Dakota, Carver and Sherbourne counties. This is why Denver is not in the top 20. The Minneapolis metro area goes all the way into North-Western Sherbourne County, which is 60 miles from the city center of Minneapolis.

Anyway:
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Total Personal Income: 115 Billion Dollars for Minneapolis Metro, which goes into NW Sherbourne County. St. Cloud only adds only 2 billion on, of you consider that the Minneapolis CMSA

With the way you count metro area I should be able to include El Paso County, which is aligned with the Denver Metro and also Boulder, Broomfield and Weld Counties which are closely aligned with Denver.

Total Personal Income: Denver CMSA includes Colorado Springs (city border 45 miles from Denver city border), Boulder and Greeley: 119 Billion Dollars

We have commuter bus service from Colorado Springs to Denver and thousands of commuters, so they are same CMSA

So, Denver and Minneapolis are basically neck and neck with the same Total Personal income.

2003 Supplemental Survey
Denver: 18th in Median Household Income
Colorado Springs: 5th Median Household Income
Minneapolis: 23th in Median Household Income

Colorado Springs 4th lowest poverty rate
Denver 15th lowest poverty rate
Minneapolis: 38th lowest poverty rate

Minneapolis wins in only one area that is having more big companies than Denver I will give you that.

But, Denver has a higher per capita personal income, Also the median family-income is higher in Denver and the poverty rate is much lower. Colorado Springs/Greeley/Denver/Boulder metro area also have a higher total income than Minneapolis/St.Paul/St. Cloud metro area.

If you adjust it to cost of living and per capita incomes. Denverites have much, much more purchasing power than Twin Cities residents.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 03:26 AM   #26
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Wow, I just saw this pic in another thread and it makes Denver look really dusty, brown, and gross:



That pic reminds me of this guy from a famous cartoon:

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Old February 22nd, 2005, 03:33 AM   #27
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^ Ummmm, healthy and pretty. A double threat.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 03:44 AM   #28
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I would prefer that anyday over what Minnesota has, I mean seriously who wants to take a jog or ride a bide when its average high in January is 20 as compared to Denver where the average high is 45, 25 degrees makes a big difference.

Well, it gets like that in January. That warm wind off the mountains sometimes crates a temperature inversion on the east side of town that traps pollution and makes it ugly. As if Minneapolis has never had an ozone alert? LOL

Boy, I sure enjoyed growing in Denver walking to and from school in short sleeves in January.

How many 70 degree days do have in Minneapolis in January? None, you cant even muster 50!!
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 03:48 AM   #29
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Minneapolis weather causes it to have many people to be obese.

I see many obese people in Minneapolis, hardly any in Denver despite having 400 places to eat in our beautiful Downtown!!
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 04:05 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denvernative1982
Well, The Bureau of Analysis excludes Broomfield and Boulder counties less than 10 miles from the city limits. Maybe you exclude Dakota, Carver and Sherbourne counties. This is why Denver is not in the top 20. The Minneapolis metro area goes all the way into North-Western Sherbourne County, which is 60 miles from the city center of Minneapolis.
Why should we exclude those counties when a majority of the people living in those counties work either in or near the central cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul?

BTW, Greeley is about 60 miles from Denver so maybe we shouldn't count the city along with Denver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denvernative1982
Total Personal Income: 115 Billion Dollars for Minneapolis Metro, which goes into NW Sherbourne County. St. Cloud only adds only 2 billion on, of you consider that the Minneapolis CMSA

With the way you count metro area I should be able to include El Paso County, which is aligned with the Denver Metro and also Boulder, Broomfield and Weld Counties which are closely aligned with Denver.

Total Personal Income: Denver CMSA includes Colorado Springs (city border 45 miles from Denver city border), Boulder and Greeley: 119 Billion Dollars
LOL! Colorado Springs isn't part of the Denver CMSA and I wasn't including St. Cloud in the GMP stat that I used. So, why do you feel it necessary to add Colorado Springs which is over 500,000 people? Honestly, if you're going to be adding Colorado Springs with Denver, Boulder and Greeley, we might as well add Rochester into the mix as well.

BTW, I could just as easily say St. Cloud is 45 miles from Minneapolis city borders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denvernative1982
We have commuter bus service from Colorado Springs to Denver and thousands of commuters, so they are same CMSA
Whatever. Colorado Springs isn't part of the Denver-Boulder-Greeley CMSA.

Stick to official numbers here okay.

According to the 2000 census Minneapolis had a median family income of $48,602 while Denver was $48,195. Minneapolis had 8,868 families in poverty while Denver had 12,790.

Education: Population 25 years and over with:
high school school graduate
Minneapolis: 20.7%
Denver: 20.0%

Associate degree
Minneapolis: 5.6%
Denver: 4.9%

Bachelorís degree
Minneapolis: 24.3%
Denver: 22.1%

Graduate or profesional degree
Minneapolis: 13.1%
Denver: 12.4%

Quote:
Originally Posted by denvernative1982
Minneapolis wins in only one area that is having more big companies than Denver I will give you that.
Everyone already knows that Minneapolis wins in several categories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denvernative1982
But, Denver has a higher per capita personal income, Also the median family-income is higher in Denver and the poverty rate is much lower. Colorado Springs/Greeley/Denver/Boulder metro area also have a higher total income than Minneapolis/St.Paul/St. Cloud metro area.
2000 Census:
Minneapolis - St. Paul MSA (MN side)
median household income: $54,370

St. Cloud MSA
median household income: $42,321

Denver-Boulder-Greeley CMSA
median household income: $46,844

Colorado Springs MSA
median household income: $46,844

Last edited by twincities03; February 22nd, 2005 at 04:29 AM.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 04:09 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denvernative1982
Minneapolis weather causes it to have many people to be obese.

I see many obese people in Minneapolis, hardly any in Denver despite having 400 places to eat in our beautiful Downtown!!
That makes a lot of sense considering the Twin Cities are constantly ranked as the healthiest or one of the healthiest metro areas in the country.

Give it up already.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 04:09 AM   #32
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Let's get the weather garbage out of the way.

DENVER


MINNEAPOLIS/ST.PAUL

Last edited by HennepinHen; February 22nd, 2005 at 04:15 AM.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 04:34 AM   #33
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Denver, support your city in the Vancouver vs. Denver forum ... right now it's pretty one sided.

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=182656
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 04:41 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twincities03
Why should we exclude those counties when a majority of the people living in those counties work either in or near the central cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul?

BTW, Greeley is about 60 miles from Denver so maybe we shouldn't count the city along with Denver?



LOL! I wasn't including St. Cloud in the GMP stat that I used. So, why do you feel it necessary to add Colorado Springs which is over 500,000?

BTW, I could just as easily say St. Cloud is 45 miles from Minneapolis city borders.



Whatever. Colorado Springs isn't part of the Denver-Boulder-Greeley CMSA.

Stick to official numbers here okay.

According to the 2000 census Minneapolis had a median family income of $48,602 while Denver was $48,195. Minneapolis had 8,868 families in poverty while Denver had 12,790.

Education: Population 25 years and over with:
high school school graduate
Minneapolis: 20.7%
Denver: 20.0%

Associate degree
Minneapolis: 5.6%
Denver: 4.9%

Bachelorís degree
Minneapolis: 24.3%
Denver: 22.1%

Graduate or profesional degree
Minneapolis: 13.1%
Denver: 12.4%



Everyone already knows that Minneapolis wins in several categories.



2000 Census:
Minneapolis - St. Paul MSA (MN side)
median household income: $54,370

St. Cloud MSA
median household income: $42,321

Denver-Boulder-Greeley CMSA
median household income: $46,844

Colorado Springs MSA
median household income: $46,844
Official numbers? I am using official numbers:
BEA Local Area Bear Facts from 2002
Per capita personal income:
Denver-Aurora MSA 38,008 dollars
Minneapolis MSA: 37,787 dollars
Denver wins according to official bureau of economic analysis data by 221 dollars. Less than 1% difference, so about the same

But the cost of living is 7% lower than Denver than it is Minneapolis.

People have smaller households evidently in Denver than Minneapolis.

Please respond to this, I would love for you to disagree with me on this
Besides if you look at the Bureau of Justice statistics. Colorado Springs and Minneapolis are about the same size. 3,000 more people in Minneapolis

In 2001....
Colorado Springs had 1,343 auto thefts
Minneapolis had 4,079 auto thefts
3 TIMES AS MANY CARS STOLEN PER-CAPITA
If everybody is so rich why are 4,000 cars stolen in One year in a city of 383,000 people.

CRIME INDEX FROM CITY-DATA.COM
Minneapolis: 607
Colorado Springs: 371
Seems like Mayor Lionel Rivera needs to lecture Rybak in Mineapolis on ways to cut crime.

It seems as though all the so called prosperity hasnt saved Minneapolis from having a high crime rate. Name one year over the last 10 years where Minneapolis had only 8 homicides.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 05:03 AM   #35
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why on earth are you comparing colorado springs to minneapolis?
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 05:22 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denvernative1982
Please respond to this, I would love for you to disagree with me on this
Besides if you look at the Bureau of Justice statistics. Colorado Springs and Minneapolis are about the same size. 3,000 more people in Minneapolis

In 2001....
Colorado Springs had 1,343 auto thefts
Minneapolis had 4,079 auto thefts
3 TIMES AS MANY CARS STOLEN PER-CAPITA
If everybody is so rich why are 4,000 cars stolen in One year in a city of 383,000 people.

CRIME INDEX FROM CITY-DATA.COM
Minneapolis: 607
Colorado Springs: 371
Seems like Mayor Lionel Rivera needs to lecture Rybak in Mineapolis on ways to cut crime.

It seems as though all the so called prosperity hasnt saved Minneapolis from having a high crime rate. Name one year over the last 10 years where Minneapolis had only 8 homicides.
Colorado Springs is 185 sq. miles, Minneapolis is 55 sq miles. By those stats alone, I can tell you that Minneapolis is a city, Colorado Springs is a suburban style college town with a bunch of stoner rich kids. Colorado Springs licks my ass and your comparison is ridiculous.

Do me a favor and run your crime numbers again, but this time use Denver and compare it to both Minneapolis and St. Paul's combined numbers to even out the sq. miles and population, then get back to me.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 05:23 AM   #37
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These Midwesterners are so used to the midwest and trees that they have no love for the desert. Thats part of life out West. I love the desert. And as far as Denver, in winter months it probably cant help the pollution as the above picture tries to show. I live in Boise, Idaho and it has FAR fewer people than Denver and we get that same inversion crap. We have the same setting. Boise is molded from the bottom of the mountains and into the desert floor valley. And we have pollution problems in the winter because it gets trapped against the mountains.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 05:34 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denvernative1982
Please respond to this, I would love for you to disagree with me on this
Besides if you look at the Bureau of Justice statistics. Colorado Springs and Minneapolis are about the same size. 3,000 more people in Minneapolis

In 2001....
Colorado Springs had 1,343 auto thefts
Minneapolis had 4,079 auto thefts
3 TIMES AS MANY CARS STOLEN PER-CAPITA
If everybody is so rich why are 4,000 cars stolen in One year in a city of 383,000 people.

CRIME INDEX FROM CITY-DATA.COM
Minneapolis: 607
Colorado Springs: 371
Seems like Mayor Lionel Rivera needs to lecture Rybak in Mineapolis on ways to cut crime.

It seems as though all the so called prosperity hasnt saved Minneapolis from having a high crime rate. Name one year over the last 10 years where Minneapolis had only 8 homicides.
Your comparing a major, central city to a military town that's quickly becoming a huge suburb.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 05:46 AM   #39
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Denver is not in the midwest it shouldn't be compared to anything in the midwest.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 06:42 AM   #40
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Denver looks small in that pic.
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