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Old December 4th, 2015, 11:54 AM   #181
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Not the tower josh which is Phase 2 (the next to be built). Phase 3 has changed slightly. The height of the 3rd block has reduced from 10 to 7 floors. No major change what so ever.

Phase 2 will still contain 125 apartments over 17 floors above 11 floors of office and 1 floor of double height plant space.

Building 3A will be a 14 storey tower with 69 apartments above a retail/restaurant unit.

Building 3B will be a 7 storey office block.

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Above the ground floor 11 storeys of office space are provided with a large terrace at the 10th floor. The 12th floor accommodates a plant room and an external communal garden terrace for
residents of the apartments above. From the 13th to 27th floors, eight apartments are
located per level, all of which have a private winter garden. The tower steps back at
level 28 to the depth of the western burgage plot only, with the upper two levels
accommodating four penthouses and a further apartment.
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Old December 4th, 2015, 12:49 PM   #182
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Will the appearance change at all?
I think the upper floors with the glass facade look great, Would like to see more details of the lower office floors. They look rather plain in the renders..... Get it built.
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Old December 4th, 2015, 01:07 PM   #183
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I have to admit, I'm really worried about this.

Phase 1 is, in my opinion, the worst building to have been put up in Birmingham for a long time. It's a shame, seeing as it occupies quite a prominent corner spot (and the basic idea was a good one), but if the standards for this one slip anywhere near as much then it could end up being a serious blight on a very sensitive part of the city.

Just imagine if the bottom 12 floors ended up looking like the first phase, with those mean little windows.
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Old December 4th, 2015, 04:06 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by daumal View Post
I have to admit, I'm really worried about this.

Phase 1 is, in my opinion, the worst building to have been put up in Birmingham for a long time. It's a shame, seeing as it occupies quite a prominent corner spot (and the basic idea was a good one), but if the standards for this one slip anywhere near as much then it could end up being a serious blight on a very sensitive part of the city.

Just imagine if the bottom 12 floors ended up looking like the first phase, with those mean little windows.
I saw the first phase last week and I was shocked. It was the windows that caught my eye. How could anyone be pleased with the outcome. What is it with architects that these crappy windows are so much in vogue? Still, the blame can be firmly attached to those people who accepted the final plans, not the architects. That's what Pevsner used to say about poorly designed buildings or buildings in the wrong place.
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Old December 5th, 2015, 10:45 AM   #185
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Still, the blame can be firmly attached to those people who accepted the final plans, not the architects. That's what Pevsner used to say about poorly designed buildings or buildings in the wrong place.
I agree to an extent, but also disagree.

I think there's an element there of architects absolving themselves of their responsibilities for their mistakes.

If I was a developer/client, I would be relying on the professional skills and judgement of the architect (which I'd be paying them handsomely for) to advise me. After all, the design of a building and the vision to foresee how it will integrate into it's environment is what they train for 7 years to learn.

The fact that they are often very poor is their problem, not the clients.
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Old December 5th, 2015, 10:56 AM   #186
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I disagree, the issue is most definitely the client who looks to maximise profit on the site.

I am often given a layout which has homes with bigger than usual back gardens, homes which actually have storage space with a park for the kids... only for the developer to come back and say the density needs to be increased, bak gardens are far bigger than they need to be to get through planning etc

Having said that, there are some terrible architects and there are others that are better at responding to their clients and being more commercial but still producing good designs. The issue is in my opinion, the standards government apply to new buildings which allows rubbish to go up. If the standards set by Government were increased and planners could enforce them, the standard of design would increase dramatically.
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Old December 6th, 2015, 11:53 AM   #187
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I disagree, the issue is most definitely the client who looks to maximise profit on the site...
http://www.dezeen.com/2015/12/03/new...-architecture/

This article applies to dwellings but the principle can be applied to everywhere.
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Old December 6th, 2015, 01:37 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit&nut View Post
I agree to an extent, but also disagree.

I think there's an element there of architects absolving themselves of their responsibilities for their mistakes.

If I was a developer/client, I would be relying on the professional skills and judgement of the architect (which I'd be paying them handsomely for) to advise me. After all, the design of a building and the vision to foresee how it will integrate into it's environment is what they train for 7 years to learn.

The fact that they are often very poor is their problem, not the clients.
Sorry F&N, it's the client in this case. His only built this to make some profit to build the rest of the site. He couldn't really care about the execution.
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Old December 6th, 2015, 02:30 PM   #189
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I agree Grafik, phase 1 of Boerma is cheap profiteering rubbish, and i share the genersal concern about the rest of the development.

I was referring more to the general comment in Pevsner.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 01:48 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by fruit&nut View Post
I agree Grafik, phase 1 of Boerma is cheap profiteering rubbish, and i share the genersal concern about the rest of the development.

I was referring more to the general comment in Pevsner.
So if phase 1 is cheap, profiteering rubbish and presumably unappealing ascetically, why did the planning department accept the proposal?
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Old December 7th, 2015, 02:26 AM   #191
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Does anyone ever build exactly to plan if they want to try and do things on the cheap? Btw, has a retailer taken the lower floor yet. I would've thought this would be a great fit for Sainsbury's.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 02:36 AM   #192
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Does anyone ever build exactly to plan if they want to try and do things on the cheap? Btw, has a retailer taken the lower floor yet. I would've thought this would be a great fit for Sainsbury's.
So are you saying that the proposers of the plans got acceptable plans (to the planning committee) passed and then changed the plans during construction, enough that if those plans had been submitted, they would not have been accepted.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 01:12 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djay View Post
I disagree, the issue is most definitely the client who looks to maximise profit on the site.

I am often given a layout which has homes with bigger than usual back gardens, homes which actually have storage space with a park for the kids... only for the developer to come back and say the density needs to be increased, bak gardens are far bigger than they need to be to get through planning etc
I've been aware of this for some time and I think the only solution is for the Government to lay regulation to ensure a certain percentage of properties have decent sized gardens which are protected from further development. It's not just about kids playing safely with fresh air, it's also about wildlife, with many indigenous species in rapid decline. Greed has a strangle hold on the UK I think and it needs far stronger regulation.. It amazes me tese estates go up, prob better to go back to the 70s with tower blocks, at least you had a view of beyond the city, rather than the bland box opposite.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 01:14 PM   #194
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The boarded up section at Beorma is bloody awful.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 10:15 PM   #195
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It's quite shocking how bad phase 1 is. A gateway site close to bullring, st marts and adjoining the cop shop. Council should be ashamed to have let this slip through
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Old December 7th, 2015, 11:45 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by KHvillan View Post
It's quite shocking how bad phase 1 is. A gateway site close to bullring, st marts and adjoining the cop shop. Council should be ashamed to have let this slip through

However the hotel is always busy when i walk past with people checking in and checking out, im sure Adagiohotel group wont be complaining very much.

Also it is worth pointing out that this development still has empty units and adjoins a pretty much derelict site and retail premises on Allison street which do nothing to make it look any better. Even though it could have looked a lot better, i think once the rest of the development has been built, this will fit in quite nicely.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 11:47 PM   #197
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They'd be better of painting it white. It would actually save it.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 02:28 AM   #198
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So are you saying that the proposers of the plans got acceptable plans (to the planning committee) passed and then changed the plans during construction, enough that if those plans had been submitted, they would not have been accepted.
Precisely that - There's no way that any of this would've been passed by council planners. However as it has now been built it would be seen as a reasonably acceptable build and can't really be pulled down (unless the developers were really taking the pee.)

Disappointing build from my point of view. Don't get me started on Auk House.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 11:58 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Typhoon2000 View Post
Precisely that - There's no way that any of this would've been passed by council planners. However as it has now been built it would be seen as a reasonably acceptable build and can't really be pulled down (unless the developers were really taking the pee.)

Disappointing build from my point of view. Don't get me started on Auk House.
With all due respect, the amended plans were submitted to the Council i believe... They didn't just build something different to their permission.

Although i could be confusing what you mean (i don't think i am though), the above scenario has not occurred in this instance as far as im aware. And if it has and you have proof of it, report it to Development Control as they might not be aware.

As i understand it, they got permission, they applied to vary the permission which in planning terms, the variation was not materially different from the permission secured and so officers couldn't refuse the change as it would have been unreasonable.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 08:25 PM   #200
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With all due respect, the amended plans were submitted to the Council i believe... They didn't just build something different to their permission.

Although i could be confusing what you mean (i don't think i am though), the above scenario has not occurred in this instance as far as im aware. And if it has and you have proof of it, report it to Development Control as they might not be aware.

As i understand it, they got permission, they applied to vary the permission which in planning terms, the variation was not materially different from the permission secured and so officers couldn't refuse the change as it would have been unreasonable.
I would love to know the course of action of the planning application and any amendments. I smell a rat!!
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