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Old July 8th, 2005, 11:21 PM   #21
Dale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justadude
Different cities offer different things. If you want super-dense, super-tall urbanity with a 24-hour central district and a world-class public transit network... Phoenix is probably not the place for you. If you want a large private home, easy access to exclusive golf courses, low taxes, year-round warm weather, and an easy-living atomosphere... Chicago is probably not the place for you.

Phoenix_Ashes... perhaps a move to Chicago is in order? Dale, at least, seems to be happy where he's living.
Either that, or I'm just trapped in a mental cramp life that Orlando has conferred upon me.
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Old July 8th, 2005, 11:52 PM   #22
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Justadude, I love Phoenix enough not to confuse boosterish enthusiasm for civic pride. Phoenix is the 5th largest city in America but has all the gravitas of Fresno. In 1950, Phoenix had 106,000 people, a real downtown, and a clear sense of its own importance. Today, that sense is lost among various boomburbs and exurban developments. Downtown Phoenix is now so forlorn that its one McDonalds closes on the weekend.

It helps to point out WHY this happened. Phoenix came of age when cars became the default mode of transportation. The city designed itself for car travel rather than people on sidewalks. The choice was preordained - it's nobody's fault, yet the results have been a catastrophe. Community fragments when distances become too great. Car travel, of course, mandates distended, horizontal communities. Driving itself substitutes for civic involvement, the most important of which is encountering your fellow citizen face to face.

Today's younger citizens are essentially clueless why their cities look the way they do, and they're unaware of the huge psychic costs of suburban living. The average American today lives at arm's length from his own community, often lonely and angry, because of these patterns.

I like to recommend to younger people a trip to Europe (or Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver) to see the joy inherent in cities. American cities, too, are making huge comebacks, and even Phoenix has seen the light. But Phoenix is also a siren song for those who think a few tall buildings can substitute for a real city. The problem is much deeper.

I'm in Phoenix for personal reasons, and I'll probably never move. I like Phoenix in many ways: it's very manageable and cheap. But I know the hole in our collective soul, the lack of an animating vision and character. It's that knowledge which keeps me focused on the importance of seeing cities not just as various elements, but the ways those elements can ultimately harmonize in beautiful music.

Last edited by Phoenix Ashes; July 9th, 2005 at 12:11 AM.
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Old July 9th, 2005, 12:22 AM   #23
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Suffice it to say that I'm glad you find fulfillment in a particular urban form.

Well, off to Blizzard Beach for me and my archtype suburban houshold !
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Old July 9th, 2005, 01:08 PM   #24
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Sounds like a first for Phoenix. Congrats.
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Old July 9th, 2005, 10:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Ashes
Justadude, I love Phoenix enough not to confuse boosterish enthusiasm for civic pride. Phoenix is the 5th largest city in America but has all the gravitas of Fresno. In 1950, Phoenix had 106,000 people, a real downtown, and a clear sense of its own importance. Today, that sense is lost among various boomburbs and exurban developments. Downtown Phoenix is now so forlorn that its one McDonalds closes on the weekend.

It helps to point out WHY this happened. Phoenix came of age when cars became the default mode of transportation. The city designed itself for car travel rather than people on sidewalks. The choice was preordained - it's nobody's fault, yet the results have been a catastrophe. Community fragments when distances become too great. Car travel, of course, mandates distended, horizontal communities. Driving itself substitutes for civic involvement, the most important of which is encountering your fellow citizen face to face.

Today's younger citizens are essentially clueless why their cities look the way they do, and they're unaware of the huge psychic costs of suburban living. The average American today lives at arm's length from his own community, often lonely and angry, because of these patterns.

I like to recommend to younger people a trip to Europe (or Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver) to see the joy inherent in cities. American cities, too, are making huge comebacks, and even Phoenix has seen the light. But Phoenix is also a siren song for those who think a few tall buildings can substitute for a real city. The problem is much deeper.

I'm in Phoenix for personal reasons, and I'll probably never move. I like Phoenix in many ways: it's very manageable and cheap. But I know the hole in our collective soul, the lack of an animating vision and character. It's that knowledge which keeps me focused on the importance of seeing cities not just as various elements, but the ways those elements can ultimately harmonize in beautiful music.
EXACTLY!
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Old July 9th, 2005, 10:47 PM   #26
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Way to go, Phoenix!
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Old July 13th, 2005, 01:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyland
Urbanphx: Thats good news for Phoenix. It definitely needs a new landmark building. Do you have a map showing the location of the building? Will it be downtown? Thanks for the information.
Hey Skyland, sorry for any delay. Yes, this still-proposed building is planned to go Downtown, built on the lot which is currently occupied by the aging Ramada Inn at Polk and 1st Streets. Here's an aerial of the parcel:

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Old July 13th, 2005, 06:02 PM   #28
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^
In 1955, Marilyn Monroe slept here. She was in town filming Bus Stop (I believe the motel's name was the Sahara then).
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Old July 14th, 2005, 02:27 AM   #29
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I'd love to a rendering.
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Old July 14th, 2005, 04:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Ashes
^
In 1955, Marilyn Monroe slept here. She was in town filming Bus Stop (I believe the motel's name was the Sahara then).
Yes, and there's a plaque posted outside the suite that she supposedly stayed in, proclaiming it 'The Marilyn Suite'.




It must be fabulous.
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Old July 16th, 2005, 09:43 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanphx
Hey Skyland, sorry for any delay. Yes, this still-proposed building is planned to go Downtown, built on the lot which is currently occupied by the aging Ramada Inn at Polk and 1st Streets. Here's an aerial of the parcel:
good location - thanks
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Old July 17th, 2005, 08:54 PM   #32
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When will renderings be released?
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Old July 20th, 2005, 04:52 PM   #33
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Alright! Just what Phoenix really needs to improve the crappy heighted skyline. Just keep furture sprawl from leap frogging over the rocky hills and maybe PHX will add a few more. I wished it was at least 600 to 700 feet tall since Denver gets to have the Rocky Mountaqin regions tallest skyline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Ashes
Downtown Phoenix is now so forlorn that its one McDonalds closes on the weekend.
What the hell does a weekend closed down Mickey D's have to do with anything? I never heard of that so that's why I had to ask. If that's the case, I'll go to that drive thru and find nothing to eat on a Saturday morning because I don't hear nobody at the order box or see nobody at the drve thru windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Ashas
Along with ASU, light rail MIGHT change downtown Phoenix for the better.
At least that ouughta revitalize North Central Avenue based on renderings I've seen months ago.
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Old July 21st, 2005, 12:08 AM   #34
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McDonalds serves as an example. Downtown is SO dead even the McDonalds closes on the weekend.

Any city's skyline is a reflection of several interrelated functions: urbanism, the overall economy, demand, and the galvanizing effect of corporate headquarters. In the case of Phoenix, the only positive is the economy, which is based on consumer spending and housing. These are low economic generators and the Phoenix skyline reflects that anemia.

Whether light-rail revitalizes Central Avenue remains to be seen. Most people are modestly hopeful, but there is only lukewarm demand for mass transit in this, the most car-oriented of major cities. Keeping my fingers crossed....

Last edited by Phoenix Ashes; July 21st, 2005 at 03:23 AM.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 02:09 PM   #35
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Has it been approved? If so when does construction start? Any renderings besides the one in the business journal?
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Old July 24th, 2005, 09:47 PM   #36
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^
It's a very early proposal. I saw one rendering which was not inspiring. City officials wanted Donald Trump to get involved (in lieu of his Camelback Road project) but he doesn't appear interested. Getting ASU involved seems one way of giving the project a bit of credibility but the numbers still don't appear to crunch. Right now, downtown Phoenix is hoping for combustion from ASU, light-rail, and more downtown residential. We've been struggling for decades trying to find the key to a vibrant core. If this doesn't work, nothing will.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 10:13 PM   #37
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I hope it does come into fruition we could really use something like that to kickstart the whole process.
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