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Old September 2nd, 2019, 09:25 PM   #7261
CalleOchoGringo
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Yeah I felt sick once I heard the news. It's good we're getting so much for him but it's hard to see us lose a player that good. It's still kinda hard to see how we can get someone who is that good at the same position in the immediate future. OT's take time to develop. It took him until his third year (last year) to be really good. At least we know Dieter CAN play tackle (even if he's not the best). And we got Houston's Left Tackle out of the deal also (not as good as Tunsil). Also Houston quietly cut Matt Kalil (a prev 1st rounder) after getting Tunsil. And the fact we (or anyone) hasn't picked him up indicates he want's more money than we people he's worth.

But the point of all this is thus... even guys like Kalil (who everyone thought would be amazing when he was drafted) sometimes whiff and turn out to be duds. We just gave up certainty for uncertainty. And that's what worries me. In the mean time I'll just have to trust the process. Looks like it's gonna be a loooong process.
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Old September 3rd, 2019, 12:03 AM   #7262
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Agreed there is plenty of risk involved. They don't need to hit on all of their picks (nobody does) but they're going to have to nail plenty of them and a handful will have to be star-quality for this to work. Free-Agency will also reappear as a factor down the road now that the team has cleared so much space (which was long overdue, frankly) but certainly not this year and probably only to a limited extent next. I think they've learned the hard way you don't go chasing expensive veterans unless you are on the cusp of being a big winner....and even then carefully and selectively.

The biggest factor by far, though, is finally seeing this franchise led by a true star talent at Quarterback. Sure, you kick the tires with Rosen this year but with the draft haul and maneuverability they now have Miami has given themselves the best possible shot of finding that guy in TWO consecutive drafts if needed. Without finding that, nothing special will happen. And even if Rosen plays reasonably well on what looms as a terrible team, nothing says you can't trade him again if and when someone better is available.

Tunsil will be missed. I've seen some people on various blogs downplaying his ability but I don't buy that at all. He wasn't a top-5 guy at the position yet but nothing tells me he's not capable of it. I wish he could have been part of this rebuild because he's young enough to still be a premier tackle when things are finally turned around. BUT I also (strongly) think Houston overpaid out of sheer desperation and that Miami really could not turn down that kind of offer. It's rare for any team to get an offer like that...even for the biggest stars.

As far as how long this whole process takes, too many unknowns. Realistically (and obviously) they will be atrocious this season. Probably the worst team in the NFL and perhaps by a good margin. I'd expect them to be mediocre at best but clearly better in Year 2 regardless of the draft (it'll still most likely be a rookie at QB no matter how high their ceiling) and then by Year 3 I think is when you'd want to see a real breakthrough with a young team in clear ascendency and a cap in good shape going forward.

And then in 2022 we win the Super Bowl again to commemorate the 50th Anniversary of the Perfect Season. You guys don't know that's already been decided?
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Old September 3rd, 2019, 08:03 PM   #7263
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I don't think there's anyone in the football world that will disagree with you on Houston overpaying for Tunsil. That trade's going to really hurt then in the long run I think.

It surprises me that no one is even entertaining the possibility of Rosen becoming our franchise guy (especially if he starts doing much better). It's true that it's unlikely... but it's like no one will even consider it. Nonetheless, I don't feel like we're giving him much of a fair look this year anyway with our o-line. For him this will be Arizona season #2. And we all know how the first one turned out.

At least I really like how young our team is getting. Even if they suck, perhaps the injuries will be lessened because of it.

I REALLY hope we don't waste a draft pick on Tagovaloa, Fromm or Herbert, when a "generational guy" like Lawrence is 1-2 years away. That would just be dumb... we already have Fitz for 2 years and Rosen for 3 more (very cheaply). Rosen's contract gives until Lawrence is going from junior to senior and maybe he will elect for draft.
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Old September 8th, 2019, 11:52 AM   #7264
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The Dolphins are kinda/sorta TRYING to be awful this year because...for better or worse...there's actual a reward for that in pro sports called a DRAFT.

The Hurricanes have no such excuse even though these are KIDS so I don't want to go overboard with criticism. But a bit of mouth vomit? Yes. And safe to say the "Turnover Chain" is resonating about as much nationally at 0-2 as a clown convention in Dayton, Ohio.

Canes are HUGELY disappointing.

As for the pro team, I think we'll start out this intentionally futile season and march to the First Pick with a resounding 31-16 victo....loss.

Here's to better days.
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Old September 11th, 2019, 07:15 PM   #7265
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I looked at your score there kinda confused... then I looked up at the time you posted.

Yeah, I'm not sure even those who wanted to tank for Tua were hoping to lose THAT hard. It's going to be a really rough season if we're getting 50 burgers dropped on us all season long. We will see how long the tank for Tua crowd lasts when the waters start to really get choppy!

OBTW food for thought:
Orgs that are perennially low in the draft every year... New England, Pittsburg, Green Bay
Orgs that are perennially high in the draft every year... Cleveland, Arizona, Raiders

I wouldn't mind being high in the draft as compensation for losing (if it's got to happen). But I wouldn't put too many hopes in the draft as being some amazing equalizer... year after year it's proven to us that it's not.
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Old September 11th, 2019, 10:20 PM   #7266
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I hear you on all of that.

First in the here and now, even fully expecting the Dolphins to be the worst team in the NFL this year (which they decidedly are) that Ravens game was of course a debacle. Pretty much as uncompetitive a game as you will ever see at the pro level. At times, it quite literally felt like watching a CFL team going against an NFL opponent. And just as sobering is that Baltimore...while a solid team...is hardly a juggernaut.

I don't think it will be the last performance so lopsided this season, either, as there's fairly good odds a few more veterans like Reshad Jones may yet be dealt away before the trade deadline if the right deal materializes (in other words, a contending team suffering an injury or addressing a weakness and perhaps offering more than they might have).

But it also won't continue to be THAT ridiculous for too long. What I'd expect is for the Dolphins to settle into merely being really, really bad for the balance of the year rather than complete ineptitude. Inexperience is a huge factor in why they were so atrocious but part of that gets settled a bit simply by playing the games.

A lot of the fan reaction is exactly what I would expect. People are FOR blowing it all up and starting from scratch until they actually see what that means and then they pivot, lol. The next phase (guaranteed) will be a lot of them deciding that Flores is a bad coach and needs to go after ONE season...even though the reality is that NO coach could possibly compete effectively...let alone win...with the talent-level and inexperience he must put on the field right now. Impossible. But a lot of folks just don't want to accept that and think there's coaches with Magic Wands and brilliant, secretive schemes unknown to others out there. There aren't. Without the talent you don't win. Period. It's why George Seifert went from coaching an 18-1 Super Bowl champion in San Francisco to getting fired in Carolina just a few years later after a 1-15 disaster...it's why Bill Belichick put together back to back 5-11 seasons and was regarded as little more than a hothead assistant over his head at the top job until some guy named Brady landed in his lap.

Anyhow, with the draft (which is all we have right now) I know there's NO guarantees with it. What I would say, however, is that Miami has managed to stockpile SO many picks (especially in the higher rounds) over the next two years that they will have a good opportunity to find a very solid core of young guys to build around, and obviously the hope a franchise QB is one of them. They'll also have a cap under control for the first time in way too many years to give them flexibility in signing FA's (younger ones rather than what the were doing previously, I would think). So what I'm saying is they have the AMMUNITION necessary to build this thing back up from the ground...but with the caveat you just won't know for sure and just how good until it happens.

I still strongly think it was the right approach even if the present is abysmal. The alternative was to keep doing what they were doing...which made Sundays more tolerable but ultimately was heading the same place they've been for most of the past 15-years plus: Nowhere.

Wish he had a time machine!
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Old September 12th, 2019, 03:22 PM   #7267
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I'm all for this blow up and I agree with everything you are saying Spell. I am a long time fan and I've been ready for this for years. Sooo over the renting of veterans for their last couple of years of productivity as if we were just a couple players away from making noise. I always knew we needed to scrap that mentality.

Yes, this is going to be a tough season to follow but we will get more competitive as the season plays out. Players will get used to playing along side one another. They'll get more accustomed to the plays being called and to their coaches. This is pretty much an expansion team with Fitzpatrick being the sole grizzled veteran.

The one thing I am looking forward to this season is seeing the young diamonds in the rough emerging as the season progresses like Eguavoen, Ledbetter, Godchaux as well seeing the draft picks from the last couple years finally start to assert themselves like Baker, McMillan, Gesicki, and Harris to name a few.

Anyway, here's to enduring a rough next few months. GO PHINS
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Old September 15th, 2019, 01:50 AM   #7268
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I do wish we had kept Wake for a bit longer tho at least. At least until we turn one of those draft picks into the next Watt or Bosa. Trading him felt like giving away Haslem or Wade. He was like the last Z. Thomas or J. Taylor grizzled veteran badass we had.
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Old September 16th, 2019, 07:20 AM   #7269
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Quote:
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I do wish we had kept Wake for a bit longer tho at least. At least until we turn one of those draft picks into the next Watt or Bosa. Trading him felt like giving away Haslem or Wade. He was like the last Z. Thomas or J. Taylor grizzled veteran badass we had.
LOVED Wake...but I suspect he's not too upset to not be with the Dolphins right now.

Good grief.

Even when you kinda/sorta knew this was coming (I mean this season, not just yesterday's game) it's SO hard to watch this kind of historic ineptitude. But that group of fellow Dolphins fans that I've been meeting up with for years out in the Philly suburbs still gets together...as we did today...and still manages to have plenty of laughs despite it all (although I do think that the fans of other teams there should start buying us rounds of sympathy beers).

When do the Panthers start? Maybe---just maybe they can give me even the (((tiniest))) sliver of hope for a title run from a local team? I need SOMETHING here. Do we have a lacrosse franchise? Badminton?

((sigh))
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Old September 16th, 2019, 09:31 AM   #7270
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I saw Wahoo McDaniel, joe auer and George Wilson jr play. This isn’t rebuilding, it isn’t even tanking. It is a disgrace!!!! This is far worse than anything the marlins have ever done!!! They won’t win a game this season and will put up the worst numbers in nfl history. There will be a game this season where absolutely no one will show up. A disgrace! That’s my rant! Out
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Old September 16th, 2019, 02:27 PM   #7271
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I think the Panthers start preseason today.
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Old September 17th, 2019, 12:41 AM   #7272
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There will be a game this season where absolutely no one will show up.
Well it won't be a Jets game that's for sure. There may be 0 dolphins fans that show up for that game... and still the stadium will be packed... with people wearing green. *sigh*
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Old September 17th, 2019, 11:30 AM   #7273
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Well it won't be a Jets game that's for sure. There may be 0 dolphins fans that show up for that game... and still the stadium will be packed... with people wearing green. *sigh*
Hang on a second here. How many JETS fans do you are think are excited about where things are headed this season? That team actually spent (big) money in the offseason to be sitting there with exactly the same record Miami has right now at 0-2.

Are they by FAR more talented and the better team? Absolutely. I'd be surprised if Miami won either game with them this year. The Dolphins are historically awful this season. We know that.

But not so sure I wouldn't take FIVE first-rounders the next 2 drafts (which is what Miami has) over just sitting there with the freaking New York Jests (intentional misspelling) spinning the same wheel forever. They are who we were.

And as for Minkah. I loved him. THAT one was tough. But I also thought he was headed to a real contender THIS year like the Rams or Philly or Vikings. I think he's headed for a GREAT career. But right now the Steelers are 0-2... got completely blown out by the Patriots in Week 1...and have now lost their starting QB. If I'm Grier, I sleep on that one a bit but ultimately take it. But with the caveat that 5-10 years from now we may well miss the guy. he'll be around that long, I think. But who knows?

THREE first-rounders next year...two more the next. That's serious ammunition either way.
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Old September 17th, 2019, 01:17 PM   #7274
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I’m okay with the Minka trade only because ince again it looks like we got value for the pick since it looks like the Steelers are going to have rough year making it a higher pick. The odds get exponentially better of landing a generational stud in the top 10 and having a shot at 2 is fantastic. What I don’t want to see happen is them trading up for Tua if another team gets in the way which is always possible. That would suck.
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Old September 17th, 2019, 09:08 PM   #7275
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Iím okay with the Minka trade only because ince again it looks like we got value for the pick since it looks like the Steelers are going to have rough year making it a higher pick. The odds get exponentially better of landing a generational stud in the top 10 and having a shot at 2 is fantastic. What I donít want to see happen is them trading up for Tua if another team gets in the way which is always possible. That would suck.
Yep. Hard to imagine another team "beating" Miami for that top pick but there's a few others who are VERY bad...although some of them aren't in the market for a QB as they recently drafted one high. Cincinnati (I think) would be the one to keep an eye on as they are awful AND would clearly draft a QB if the opportunity is there.

Miami plays them in the next-to-last game of the season...the one game I'll be at this year (along with maybe 10,000 other weirdos). The possibility exists that I will witness the most (intentionally) historically inept game in NFL history!
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Old September 17th, 2019, 09:46 PM   #7276
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Iím okay with the Minka trade only because ince again it looks like we got value for the pick since it looks like the Steelers are going to have rough year making it a higher pick. The odds get exponentially better of landing a generational stud in the top 10 and having a shot at 2 is fantastic. What I donít want to see happen is them trading up for Tua if another team gets in the way which is always possible. That would suck.
great article in the Sun Sentinel as to why this trade makes NO sense at all? Value? Steelers? He was just a first rounder taken at #11 a year ago? Highly unlikely that the Pittsburgh pick with be better than that, no matter how bad they are without Big Ben. They might become a .500 team if they had 10 first rounders and 10 second rounders in the next couple of years. 20 years in rebuilding mode is just too much to stomach considering that is where they have been since 7-62!
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Old September 17th, 2019, 10:41 PM   #7277
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great article in the Sun Sentinel as to why this trade makes NO sense at all? Value? Steelers? He was just a first rounder taken at #11 a year ago? Highly unlikely that the Pittsburgh pick with be better than that, no matter how bad they are without Big Ben. They might become a .500 team if they had 10 first rounders and 10 second rounders in the next couple of years. 20 years in rebuilding mode is just too much to stomach considering that is where they have been since 7-62!
I'm going to (gently) disagree with some of this, my very dear friend. What Miami had been doing for the past 15-plus years wasn't really rebuilding at all in my view. More often than not they were spending right to the max of the salary cap...signing overpaid veterans as "solutions" to problems that ran much deeper...and simply trying to stay above water with bandaids and temporary fixes in the hopes of ((maybe)) getting to 10 wins max and a quick exit from the playoffs. Never in that entire span did they look like a genuine contender or a team even headed in that direction. They were the very definition mediocrity and would have (and could have) stayed that way had they opted to continue along that path. As brutal as this process is, I absolutely think they came to the correct conclusion after last season that the entire structure was broken and fatally flawed. And that it needed a radical makeover from the ground up.

The draft ammunition and cap space they have right now is extraordinary. I don't think anyone would deny that, regardless of how they feel about the overall process. The Tunsil trade remains a no-brainer. That's not just me saying that, it's pretty much every analyst I've heard opine on it (and I mean nationally, not locally). Supposedly even Tunsil himself walked into Grier's office the day of the trade and joked that he "would have traded himself for that, too." If Grier hadn't taken that deal he should have been fired on the spot.

Minkah is more complicated for me. And it was for them as well. They DID want to keep him, I think. Had he gone to a real contender this year I would have had a real hard time with it. But I didn't expect a mediocre team to bite and that changes things a bit. All I can do on that one is hope the Steelers lose a bunch of their remaining games and wait and see how it works out (or doesn't). Don't discount that sometimes a trade winds up benefiting both teams involved over time. That's entirely possible here, too.

And beyond ALL of this both you and I and everyone not living in a cave knows the Dolphins are never headed anywhere meaningful unless and until they finally get a stud at Quarterback. And that is ONLY going to happen through the draft. And although sometimes teams get lucky with finding that guy outside the top few picks it's still the exception and more often than not the great ones go early. As do the most notable busts, of course. They've got TWO drafts to get it right, though, and more than enough ammunition to do so.

Two years from right now, you (might) see five or six guys from the current roster still on the team. They're pretty easy to name, too. This atrocious bunch on the field now WILL be replaced by better talent all across the field. And the team will be in a far better place. That much I can pretty much guarantee. What NOBODY can is whether that infusion will carry with it enough genuine talent to create a big, long-term winner that can actually contend for a title (obviously the hope) or merely a much better team than now but still fatally flawed. All I know right now is that they have more picks and cap space than any other team to work with. IF they get it mostly right (nobody bats 100% with this stuff) then you'll see a pretty dramatic upswing that lasts by 2021. If not....

As for this year, I suggest beer. Seriously, I couldn't care less about the scores this season. They cannot compete right now nor do I have any expectation of them being able to at all. Beer!
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Old September 18th, 2019, 02:40 AM   #7278
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great article in the Sun Sentinel as to why this trade makes NO sense at all? Value? Steelers? He was just a first rounder taken at #11 a year ago? Highly unlikely that the Pittsburgh pick with be better than that, no matter how bad they are without Big Ben. They might become a .500 team if they had 10 first rounders and 10 second rounders in the next couple of years. 20 years in rebuilding mode is just too much to stomach considering that is where they have been since 7-62!
Steelers were 9-6-1 last year with Ben and are 0-2 now and no Ben the rest of the year so yeah i feel itís very likely they give us a top 10 pick. Good value.
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Old September 18th, 2019, 07:41 PM   #7279
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Good article today:

Depreciating asset, rising star, regardless of the item Chris Grier and the Miami Dolphins brought back above-market returns on almost every move this offseason

https://www.lockedondolphins.com/dol...the-fire-sale/
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Old September 21st, 2019, 06:49 AM   #7280
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Overwhelmed Dolphins GM Asks Players To Please Use Automated Email Form When Making Trade Requests (The Onion)

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