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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:16 PM   #21
kostya
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ops, i went off line and right after that i saw someone's reply .
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John
Yes, because you live in US
In US they even call a 1+1 simple road a highway, so if to be completely clear may I ask you. How many motorways are there in Russia which have:
- asphalted emergency lanes
- have no one level crossings
- have maximum speed limit of 130 km/h (or at least 110km/h)

- have this road sign ?

and since I've been driving (or being driven) motorways for my whole life so I really do know what it is.
Well, first of all you should know that the sign you posted does not exist in Russia - we have different signs. Second, I use 2+2 lane highway (max speed 110 km/h, 70 mph) that does not have any asphalted emergency shoulders (it does have flat unasphalted surface that you could pull over to) to go to college every day. Third, the green signs I see here in US clearly say "FREEWAY ENTRANCE" and "HIGHWAY #BLABLA SOUTH/WEST". Even the ones that have up to 4-6 lanes (one way), like the I-5, don't have completely asphalted shoulders.

So pretty much, how you are defining a highway is similar to me saying "all cities below 1 million are villages" and then saying that your country doesn't have cities, only villages. Don't know if this is some sort of funky "european standard" that you guys like to pull out of your rear every so often or just a definition based on limited experience, but either way not all of your requirements have to be in place for a highway to be what it is.
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:27 PM   #23
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Strange sOmeOne, I thought we're talking about Russian highways and you start talking stuff about American ones, obviously you've never driven on a highway in Russia because they simply do not exist.
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:28 PM   #24
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John, every major highway that I have seen in Russia had at least 2 lanes (usually 3) going one way and all had a flat surface on the shoulder that you could pull over to in case of emergency. I have travelled by bus a lot, and I have been all over Crimea, I honestly do not know where you got the impression that Russia doesn't have highways. Obviously it's common knowlege that the roads in Russia are crap, but I never knew you had THAT impression. How did you suppose all those buses, trucks and all other vehicles get between cities? Don't tell me you didn't know Russia had cars
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John
obviously you've never driven on a highway in Russia because they simply do not exist.
Really? Then the highways in US don't exist either? Because they look the same to me.
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:31 PM   #26
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Ok, so AGAIN, how many roads in Russia have top speed limit 110-130 km/h? I need a straight answer.


and about this road sign
it existed in USSR, was it abolished in Russia after 1991?
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:40 PM   #27
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John

this is map for you
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John
Ok, so AGAIN, how many roads in Russia have top speed limit 110-130 km/h? I need a straight answer.


and about this road sign
it existed in USSR, was it abolished in Russia after 1991?
How the hell should I know a straight answer? Did you suppose I could just go and find info on highways in a country that is 1/2 of Eurasia?

Apparently you have been twisting the definition around.
Here is a formal definition by the Webster dictionary:

HIGHWAY. A passage or road through the country, or some parts of it, for the use of the people. 1 Bouv. Inst. n. 442. The term highway is said to be a generic name for all kinds of public ways. 6 Mod R, 255. Highways are universally laid out by public authority and repaired at the public expense, by direction of law. 4 Burr. Rep. 2511.

MOTORWAY - a broad highway designed for high-speed traffic


Other definitions from other websites:
HIGHWAY: In common parlance, a road which offers higher speed limits than a normal urban street. In legal parlance, any road which is available to use by the public.

Highway (HWY) - An arterial highway primarily designed for traffic movement and provides direct access to buildings and intersections. Characteristics of highways include: intersections at grade level and geometric design features controlling speed and the safe movement of traffic.


A highway is a major arterial road within a city, or linking several cities together. In Britain and Ireland, unless the route is classified as a motorway, the term normally used is main road, trunk road, or, where appropriate, dual carriageway. Highways usually have a higher speed limit than other roads because they have more lanes and are designed for travelling at a higher speed. Highways are a grade below freeways in importance. Historically, a highway was any major road travelling a long distance outside of cities. In the 20th century, the word generally came to be used only for important improved automobile routes.


Not a thing about paved shoulders, signs, or anything of that sort.
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:44 PM   #29
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so coth, are you trying to say that all those thick lines on the map are real highways??!
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:45 PM   #30
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yes
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:47 PM   #31
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@sOmeOne

allright, sorry for putting in that damn highway, what about motorway? Is it better?
I'm not twisting anything, I'm just telling what is common in Europe, and in Europe motorway is a road which have the caracteristics I mentioned. Russia has no such roads and you should better acknowledge that or proove otherwise.
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:49 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coth
yes
like this one?

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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:55 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John
like this one?

Yes, absolutely identical. I posted the pictures in the begining of the thread - are you blind?

Please give me a link to a definition of a motorway that has all your points.
Here is the one I found:

Quote:
A motorway (United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland, and some Commonwealth nations) is both a type of road and a classification. Motorways may also be regarded as highways, designed to carry a large volume of traffic where a normal road would not suffice or would be unsafe, usually between cities. In the UK they are predominately dual carriageway, usually with two lanes in each direction and grade-separated access.

For a road to be classified as motorway a number of conditions must be fulfilled. The following conditions apply in the UK and the Republic of Ireland. Interchanges must be accessed by slip-roads off the sides of the main thorough-fare. Traffic lights are not permitted (except at toll booths) and the central reservation must remain unbroken. Emergency phones must be provided at a regular distance. The start and end of a motorway must have signposted entry and exit points. Most of these rules are occasionally broken!

Many roads in the UK and the Republic of Ireland are of near-motorway quality, but are not classified as such (generally for breaking the above rules). These are referred to as dual-carriageways, which may be subject to a lower speed limit.

In both countries, motorways are denoted by blue signage (and an M-prefixed road number). Speed limits are generally higher than on ordinary roads, with an overall limit of 70 mph (113 km/h) for cars in both the UK and the Republic. Some types of vehicle may be subject to a lower limit, while often sections of motorway are subject to lower speed limits due to local driving conditions. Lanes closest to the edge of the road (inside lanes) are intended for general driving, while the outer lanes are intended for overtaking (passing) slower moving vehicles.

Roads in the Republic of Ireland will however, have metric speed limits imposed in late 2004/early 2005 to conform to both European convention and existing directional signage (metric since 1970s). It is likely that the speed limit for motorways in Ireland will then be slightly increased to 120 km/h (75 mph).

Unlike in some other countries, drivers are not permitted to pass on the inside unless traffic in the 'faster' lanes is stationary. With a touch of black humour, the practice is popularly known as undertaking. Learner drivers, pedestrians, cyclists and underpowered vehicles (e.g. small scooters) are generally banned from motorways and a 'minimum speed limit' may apply.

The road surface is generally asphalt ('black top') or concrete ('white top'). White dashed lines denote the lane separation, while an unbroken white line is painted alongside the median. A white line (or in the Republic of Ireland, a dashed yellow line) on the edge of the slow lane marks the edge of the hard shoulder. The hard-shoulder is not used for traffic and is reserved for breakdowns or emergency manoeuvres.

Other features are crash-barriers, cat's eyes and increasingly, textured road markings (similar concept to rumble-strips). In the UK it is a requirement that all motorways have emergency telephones at regular (usually one mile) intervals which connect directly to the police.

The most basic motorway junction is a two-lane flyover with four slip-roads, two on each side of the motorway to exit or enter. A simple crossroads or roundabout is present on either end of the flyover. A rather large version of a roundabout, using two curved flyovers is sometimes used to present a single large junction for users of the slip-roads or crossing road. An Irish invention is the signal-controlled roundabout which is often used in these situations. A further degree of complexity is present in Britain with varying types of Spaghetti Junction style interchanges.
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Motorway


Notice it says "hard shoulder" and not "paved shoulder". By this definition, all of the pictures I posted qualify as motorways.
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Old August 1st, 2004, 07:57 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John
like this one?

Very different from what I posted



The picture you have doesn't even have a shoulder. You're contradicting yourself.
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Old August 1st, 2004, 08:02 PM   #35
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No sOmeOne, by standards used in Europe a road has to have all the characteristics as I mentioned otherwise it cannot qualify as motorway and cannot have the sign I provided. Maybe in Russia even an unpaved country road is called motorway or highwai, in this case I understand your point.

@coth
so can you tell, this map shows motorways?


which all look like this one?
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Old August 1st, 2004, 08:05 PM   #36
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btw, what's the road sign informing about the motorway in Russia?
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Old August 1st, 2004, 08:07 PM   #37
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Ok John, you know you're wrong. I gave you an official definition about 10 times.
Unless you can find an official definition that mentions paved shoulders and a special "universal highway sign", then I'll beleive you.
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Old August 1st, 2004, 08:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John
btw, what's the road sign informing about the motorway in Russia?
I'm trying to look it up right now.
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Old August 1st, 2004, 08:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John
Ok, so AGAIN, how many roads in Russia have top speed limit 110-130 km/h? I need a straight answer.


and about this road sign
it existed in USSR, was it abolished in Russia after 1991?
532 thousands kilometers. On 10th place in the World.
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Old August 1st, 2004, 08:14 PM   #40
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Okay, it appears to be the same sign (only green)
http://autodux.ru/pdd/zn05.html
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