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Old March 10th, 2005, 12:00 AM   #21
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I just hope the glass on the towers are blue/reflective.
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Old March 10th, 2005, 03:10 AM   #22
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The first one I like the best. I don't really like the second or last one that much.
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Old March 14th, 2005, 07:07 AM   #23
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i don't think a building on top of the new station's necessary, but if it is, i'll prefer the first. it looks nice, and not too big either.

the building in proposal 4 looks like a nice modern design that we can use, with some minor changes and an increase in height, for the new wtc (though it's no better than the original twins, it's definitely a better alternative than the freedom tower).
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Old March 14th, 2005, 07:32 AM   #24
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I don't like any of them. If they feel the need to put a massive structure on top, I'd rather they do something low and wide rather than tall and narrow. The building screws with the proportions of the base.
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Old March 18th, 2005, 07:41 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellatur
i like the first proposal the best
Agreed...
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Old July 18th, 2005, 05:15 PM   #26
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NY Times

Team Chosen for Project to Develop Transit Hub


A rendering of an earlier design for the new station, which will occupy the James A. Farley Post Office, a soaring Beaux-Arts building.

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
Published: July 18, 2005

The Pataki administration plans to announce today that it has selected a development team to transform the general post office in Midtown Manhattan into a dramatic new $930 million transit hub, a long-awaited project that proponents say will be a catalyst for development and an opportunity for civic redemption.

The Empire State Development Corporation has picked a joint venture of the Related Companies and Vornado Realty Trust to turn the blocklong James A. Farley Post Office on Eighth Avenue into a grand Moynihan Station, named after Daniel Patrick Moynihan, the senator who was its champion until his death in 2003. The project includes not only a train station but also a major block of space for retail, office or residential use.

"It's my hope that it'll be a great train station, serving as the city's front door," said David A. Childs, an architect at Skidmore, Owings & Merrill who had designed an earlier version of the Moynihan renovation. "It would be a chance to reclaim the glory of the original Penn Station."

The post office, most of which was built in 1913, sits across Eighth Avenue from the existing Penn Station, a warren of crowded, below-ground passageways connecting two commuter railroads and two subway lines. That is all that is left of the original station, a Beaux-Arts masterpiece demolished in 1963 despite protests by preservationists and architects. Many of Penn Station's existing tracks and platforms, which serve nearly 550,000 passengers a day in the city's busiest transportation hub, already extend beneath the post office.

The original station and the post office share a classical style and the same architect: McKim, Mead & White. The post office's grand staircase on Eighth Avenue and the long row of 53-foot-high Corinthian columns will remain intact, and the Postal Service will maintain a small presence for retail patrons.

The Moynihan Station's principal tenant will be New Jersey Transit, which is desperate for additional platforms. New York State has already made a $20 million down payment on the $230 million purchase of the Farley building from the Postal Service.

State and city officials, urban planners and developers say that the station could accelerate development of the formerly industrial neighborhood west of the post office.

"This project provides a critical addition to the city's transportation infrastructure and offers tremendous economic development opportunities for the neighborhood," said Andrew M. Alper, president of the city's Economic Development Corporation.

The selection is a victory for Steven Roth, chairman of Vornado and one of the largest commercial landlords in Manhattan, and Stephen M. Ross, chairman of Related, the most prolific and politically connected developer in the city today. Vornado has made a major investment in the area around Penn Station and Madison Square Garden, where it owns skyscrapers containing six million square feet of office space, as well as the Hotel Pennsylvania, across Seventh Avenue from Madison Square Garden, and several retail properties.

The joint venture competed against Boston Properties and Tishman Speyer for the project. Vornado and Related were able to offer more money, according to a government official involved in the negotiations, because Vornado intends to transfer about one million square feet of development rights from the post office site to a parcel at the northeast corner of Eighth Avenue and 33rd Street, where it plans to build a tower.

The two companies will pay about $300 million for the development rights and an annual payment in lieu of property taxes, which has not been disclosed. The size of the payment was a point of contention between state and city officials. City officials had wanted the amount to be higher than real estate taxes downtown so the development would not compete with the rebuilding effort in Lower Manhattan.

Vornado and Related have been working with architects at Hellmuth, Obata & Kassabaum and James Carpenter Design Associates. But it is unclear what remains of Mr. Childs's 1999 design for a soaring, asymmetrical glass and steel canopy that would funnel light into a great entry hall. The government official, who has seen the new plans, said that Mr. Childs's design had been "modified."

The Moynihan project has traveled a twisted and difficult path since Mr. Moynihan first secured federal funds for the project. It now has the support of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, Gov. George E. Pataki and Charles A. Gargano, chairman of the Empire State Development Corporation.

It was first conceived as train station, principally for Amtrak, that would take up about half the Farley building. But the project grew in size and scope to include office space. The Postal Service agreed to move out, but then reconsidered.

The Postal Service relented in 2002, but last year, Amtrak dropped out of the project because of money problems. Its ticket windows and track entrances will remain east of Eighth Avenue.

Robert D. Yaro, president of the Regional Plan Association, said he considered the Moynihan Station to be a far more significant project for the future of the Far West Side of Manhattan than the ill-fated $2.2 billion stadium for the Jets. He said it would bring the "portals" of the city's busiest transit hub farther west, from Eighth Avenue to Ninth Avenue, which should spur development in the surrounding neighborhood and provide confidence for commercial builders.
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Old July 18th, 2005, 10:48 PM   #27
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I hope that thing that is sticking out will not be part of the final design, b/c it looks very ugly.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 12:36 AM   #28
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^yea... maybe it will be better if the glasses are in color
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Old July 19th, 2005, 12:50 AM   #29
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yep, they should revise it until it no longer looks like it's gonna collapse. and they should implement more architecture that pays tribute to the original penn station.

dood, why can't they just call it the penn station? im sure few people would even bother to say "moynihan" when it's so much easier to say "penn".
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:03 PM   #30
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NY Daily News

New Penn Station no longer dream
Developers chosen for $818M project

BY PAUL D. COLFORD
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

State and city officials yesterday named the developers who will replace one of the city's lost jewels - the old Pennsylvania Station - with a new gem.

After years of delay, the city, state and two big developers are all aboard with a design to turn the main post office on Eighth Ave. into a grand transit hub recalling the elegant Pennsylvania Station that was razed in 1963.

The $818 million plan will preserve the handsome facade of the James A. Farley Post Office, erected in 1913, while adapting the building as the new Daniel Patrick Moynihan Station, to honor the late U.S. senator, who pushed hard for the idea.

"This is going to be a magnificent gateway for New York," Gov. Pataki said at yesterday's unveiling of the design, which also calls for shops, restaurants and a boutique hotel.

Pataki noted that more than 500,000 subway, NJTransit, Long Island Rail Road and Amtrak riders a day now use Penn Station, a bland hub located across Eighth Ave. He called the current location "horribly inadequate." It's "certainly not an appropriate gateway to the greatest city in the world," he added.

As envisioned by James Carpenter Design Associates, in collaboration with Hellmuth, Obata & Kassabaum, the new central train hall will mirror the old Penn Station through the addition of tall, steel arches on which will sit a huge, yet lightweight, skylight.

A second, so-called "grid shell skylight" will be set atop a hall to be located roughly in the middle of the building, between Eighth and Ninth Aves., that will serve as a taxi station and baggage dropoff.


The winning plan for the project was submitted by a team of major New York developers, The Related Cos. and Vornado Realty Trust, which has extensive holdings in the area.

The companies will put up about $300 million of the projected $818 million cost at different stages before the work is completed in 2010.

The city, state and federal governments and the Port Authority are also helping to fund the project, whose main transit beneficiary will be NJTransit trains.

The congestion that commuters now face in reaching the track level in Penn Station will be relieved with the addition of staircases and other access to 11 platforms that already sit under the Farley building.

The Postal Service will occupy 250,000 square feet.

Up to 1 million square feet of air rights will be applied to the northeast corner of Eighth Ave. and 33rd St., where a Duane Reade store now stands. A residential tower is expected to rise there, next to Vornado-owned 1Penn Plaza.

"The completion of the Moynihan Station gives a second chance to recapture the extraordinary station that once was Penn Station," said Charles Gargano, chairman of the state Economic Development Corp.

Gargano's agency spearheaded the plan and arranged for the planned purchase of the Farley building from the Postal Service for $230 million.

Yesterday's unveiling was the latest chapter in a long-running effort to give the Farley building new life as a transit hub.

Moynihan's dream project seemed far along six years ago, when then-President Bill Clinton came to New York to join Pataki and the senator in introducing plans for "the new Penn Station" in the Farley building.

Amtrak, the owner of Penn Station, was then onboard, but has since pulled back its planned financial contribution.

Mayor Bloomberg said the project will create more than 10,000 construction jobs, more than 3,300 permanent jobs and more than $50 million a year intax revenue, and provide an anchor destination amid plans for new West Side development.

Originally published on July 19, 2005


Artist's rendition of the new Pennsylvania Station (above and below), which is expected to be completed in 2010 and will feature a huge skylight that will sit on steel arches.




Maura Moynihan, the late senator's daughter, makes a point outside the James A. Farley Post Office as Mayor Bloomberg (left) and Gov. Pataki consider the present Penn Station.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 10:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7 World Trade
dood, why can't they just call it the penn station? im sure few people would even bother to say "moynihan" when it's so much easier to say "penn".
I too don't why it still can't use that name especially since that's what it was known as for nearly a century.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 10:39 PM   #32
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Pics, and comparison with old and new Penn station...

http://www.nylovesbiz.com/moynihan_station.htm
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Old July 20th, 2005, 12:24 AM   #33
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Couple of things:
1) when did SOM get thrown off the project? Or was it ever theirs? The "potato chip" wasn't perfect but it showed promise, I thought. It was modern and airy. (not disparaging the new design, which I also find modern and airy)

2) sucks that Amtrak will stay in the old Penn Station beneath MSG. I mean more train passengers do come from Jersey via NJT but as a gateway to the rest of the country, Penn "Moynihan" Station would've been cool for Amtrak. Damn the federal government for not funding Amtrak and subsidizing it the same way it subsidizes the national highway system.

3) It's going to be a long hike for the people coming on the NJT to get to the NY subways.

4) They better have monster airconditioning units in the summer. I can see that place as a big greenhouse. I hope they use some kind of filtering, reflective glass.
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Old July 20th, 2005, 02:04 AM   #34
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i do not feel that fondly from these new projects
look how many projects in the city got screwed up...
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Old July 20th, 2005, 03:12 AM   #35
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as for the problem of long hikes to the nyc subways, i don't think that will be an issue. if the platforms are gonna be under the farley post office building (between 8th and 9th ave), the distance to the 8th ave subway line shouldn't be that far. but walking to the 7th ave subway line will probably be a pain in the butt.

but as stated earlier, some of the platforms in the original penn station already extends westward beyond 8th ave to beneath the post office building itself, so i don't think it'll make much of a difference.

i appreciate the government's efforts to mirror the original penn station's glass roof. but from the looks of the renderings, it seemed more like a half-hearted effort. maybe adding more columns and get rid of the roof's warped look will help.
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Old July 20th, 2005, 06:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boybaha
Couple of things:
1) when did SOM get thrown off the project? Or was it ever theirs? The "potato chip" wasn't perfect but it showed promise, I thought. It was modern and airy. (not disparaging the new design, which I also find modern and airy)
No clue why SOM isn't on the project anymore, their design for the station was by David Childs, I guess he's too busy at the WTC site. Architects mentioned are Hellmuth, Obata + Kassabaum, P.C., and James Carpenter Design Associates but is that just for the hall or the whole thing?

Larger renderings from Newsday...





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Old July 21st, 2005, 05:13 PM   #37
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New York Times
July 21, 2005

With Many Modifications, Penn Station Project Is 'Go'

By DAVID W. DUNLAP


A model of the latest design for the expanded Pennsylvania Station, to be known as Moynihan Station, after Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

Overlooked in the fanfare this week over the announcement that the long-delayed Pennsylvania Station expansion project will be taken over by two powerful developers, the Related Companies and Vornado Realty Trust, is the fact that the design has been significantly altered. Again.

The first design, by Hellmuth, Obata & Kassabaum, was unveiled in 1992; the second, by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, in 1999. The latest is by James Carpenter Design Associates, with the collaboration of Hellmuth, Obata & Kassabaum.

The basic idea is still the same: to expand passenger operations westward from the claustrophobic existing station into the James A. Farley Building, the monumental General Post Office from 1913. It was designed by McKim, Mead & White, architects of the original Pennsylvania Station, as a neo-Classical companion piece across Eighth Avenue.

Important details of the latest Farley project - formally Moynihan Station, after Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, its outspoken champion until his death in 2003 - have been changed by the new developers and their architectural team.

Perhaps most notably, Moynihan Station has lost the 150-foot-high steel and glass shell proposed by David M. Childs of Skidmore, which would have bisected the blocklong Farley Building and given it a strikingly modern profile in midblock, extending well above the roofline and beyond the existing facades on 31st and 33rd Streets.

(Less than a month ago, another bravura Skidmore plan - for the torqued, cable-laced Freedom Tower at the World Trade Center site - was also shelved.)

The latest design creates a significantly different volume in the train hall and concourse that will occupy the former mail-sorting room at the heart of the post office.

Hellmuth, Obata & Kassabaum's original plan called for a skylight in the form of a 120-foot parabolic arch rising within the interior courtyard occupied by the sorting room. Skidmore proposed to modify and refurbish the existing shed roof and skylight, which would have been about 70 feet over the upper floor of a new two-level concourse.

James Carpenter and Kenneth Drucker, the senior principal and director of design in the New York office of Hellmuth, Obata & Kassabaum, have instead proposed a single-level concourse, which will save money. More than 100 feet overhead, an undulating grid of skylights supported on six great columns will recall - though not replicate - the roof of the original McKim, Mead & White concourse. There will be similar skylights over a midblock hall.

"We took the premise of opening up the building through light," Mr. Carpenter said.

The new approach to the train hall will permit all the interior courtyard windows, many of which will be part of a new hotel, to overlook the concourse without obstruction. "We wanted to engage the hotel with the functions of Moynihan Station and not feel like you're separated from it," Mr. Drucker said.

CHARLES A. GARGANO, the chairman of the Empire State Development Corporation and the subsidiary Moynihan Station Development Corporation, said that officials favored the Related-Vornado project in part because it would transfer unused development rights from the post office to a nearby site.

"It means there will be no new tower built atop the Farley Building," he said.

But neither will there be a shell. This skylight over the midblock transportation hall was to have been shaped like the section of a larger, imaginary sphere. Its shallow concave form reminded some viewers of a giant potato chip. This being New York, the land of Lipstick and Flatiron Buildings, that nickname stuck.

"One of the concerns we had about the chip was that you would have to blow out the facades of the 31st and 33rd Street sides," Mr. Gargano said. "And we wanted to keep as much of the facade as possible." Such decisions affect the project's eligibility for historic preservation tax credits.

Mr. Gargano said there were savings from not building the chip. But he added, "While the chip appeared very dramatic - and I'm not taking anything away from S.O.M. - if indeed we want to recapture the old Penn Station, I think we're doing it more by utilizing the design we have."

Maura Moynihan, a senior fellow at the Regional Plan Association, recalled that her father "loved the chip," and she allowed that the design had changed since he unveiled it six years ago with Gov. George E. Pataki and President Bill Clinton. So has the world. "The budget was in surplus," Ms. Moynihan said. "This was pre-9/11. This was pre-Iraq invasion. And it was possible to think bigger and plan bigger."

Given the realities surrounding the Moynihan Station project, she said, "The fact that it's still on the books at all I consider a blessing, a miracle."

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company
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Old July 21st, 2005, 10:01 PM   #38
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Now that I think about it some more, I think that while I like the skylight idea for the new concourse a lot, I also like the signature impact of the potato chip. It appeared to embrace the past but also looked like it belonged to the present and the future. Like Maura Moynihan said in the above article, "This was pre-9/11. This was pre-Iraq invasion. And it was possible to think bigger and plan bigger." The chip was bigger and more impactful.
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Old July 22nd, 2005, 12:20 AM   #39
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hmm i definitely liked the other design more
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Old July 22nd, 2005, 01:22 AM   #40
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Compare...old and new design:



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