Midtown | Penn Station | Renovation | U/C - Page 3 - SkyscraperCity
 

forums map | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > United States > Northeast and MidAtlantic > Local Forums > New York City > Manhattan


Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 22nd, 2005, 03:22 AM   #41
Ellatur
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,442
Likes (Received): 11

hmm.. the ceiling of the interior of the old design is ugly i admit, but the overall design is still better than the new one. Especially the outer roofing-thingy

what do you guys think?
Ellatur no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old July 22nd, 2005, 08:09 AM   #42
bagel
Member, Winifred Fan Club
 
bagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 2,970
Likes (Received): 53

I like a combination of the two. Potato chip wedged in between the two halves. And the high skylight of the second design.
__________________

I am the original thread killer.
bagel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2005, 02:50 AM   #43
7 World Trade
Long live the Twins!
 
7 World Trade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,116
Likes (Received): 4

i prefer a hybrid of the two roof cover designs, but it's good that they threw out the giant potato chip in the 2nd design.
__________________
UNWAVERING SUPPORTER OF THE REBUILDING OF THE WTC TWIN TOWERS
Team Twin Towers- Standing Tall Together
Twin Towers Alliance- What the People want-What New York Needs-What America Deserves
The Ground Zero Rebuilding Scandal- Justin Berzon's complete story of the WTC rebuilding scandal
Proud fan of NASCAR drivers Kevin Harvick and Scott Wimmer
7 World Trade no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old September 12th, 2005, 06:44 AM   #44
bagel
Member, Winifred Fan Club
 
bagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 2,970
Likes (Received): 53

New Madison Square Garden at the Farley Post Office Building?

Don't know if this should be a new thread... I decided to post this here since it's not REALLY a project yet. So Cablevision, those anti-Jets Stadium yahoos, is thinking of tearing down the current Madison Square Garden and building a new one one block to the west. Guess who lives one block to the west? Yes, yes yes, it's our good friend the new Moynihan Penn Station (they want the half of the block closest to 9th Ave).

What do you all think? Would this be wise? I know we have no renderings yet, but would a massive stadium destroy the classical lines of the venerable Farley Post Office building?

Today's NY Times.

September 12, 2005
Madison Square Garden's Owners Are in Talks to Replace It, a Block West

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
The owners of Madison Square Garden, the arena that traces its origins back to P. T. Barnum 131 years ago and became the site of New York City's most famous boxing matches and basketball games, are in talks with two developers to build its fifth incarnation, a block west of its current home atop Pennsylvania Station.

If the project moves forward, a new Garden will rise at the western end of the James A. Farley Post Office, according to executives who have been briefed on the negotiations between the Garden and the developers Stephen M. Ross, chairman of Related Companies, and Steven Roth, chairman of Vornado Realty Trust. The Farley Post Office, bordered by Eighth and Ninth Avenues and 31st and 33rd Streets, is being transformed into a grand new transit hub to be called Moynihan Station.

The new Garden, which would remain home to the Rangers and the Knicks, would improve on the arena's cramped and inefficient quarters by featuring wide concourses with stores and restaurants, luxury boxes with better sight lines for basketball and hockey games, a museum and a hall of fame.

Like the three prior incarnations of the Garden, the existing arena, which sits like a giant doughnut amid the Penn Plaza office complex between Seventh and Eighth Avenues, would be demolished. It would be replaced by skyscrapers containing a mix of luxury apartments, office space and stores.


Mr. Roth, who owns many of the office buildings and stores surrounding the Garden, and Mr. Ross, the most active developer in the city, were selected in July to turn the Farley Post Office into a $930 million train and subway gateway to the city. The hub would be an extension of Penn Station, which lies below the Garden.

"It's almost a precondition that the Garden has to move for Penn Plaza to fulfill its destiny as a first-class office center," said Mary Ann Tighe, chief executive of CB Richard Ellis in New York and a former real estate adviser to the Garden. "It's logical that a great transportation hub like Pennsylvania Station be surrounded by some of the city's great office towers."

But just as the Garden is steeped in the city's history, the decision to relocate is tangled in political intrigue.

In 2003 and 2004, the Bloomberg administration urged the Garden, which is owned by Cablevision and controlled by Charles and James Dolan, to move either three blocks west to the 12th Avenue railyards or to the post office site, in the hope of silencing the Dolans' opposition to a stadium for the Jets over the railyards.

Instead, the Dolans announced in June 2004 that they would spend more than $300 million renovating the Garden, pointedly declaring that unlike the Jets, they would do so "without taxpayer money." They also poured tens of millions of dollars into television ads depicting the ill-fated $2.2 billion stadium as the mayor's folly. In a battle of the billionaires, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg blasted back, describing the Dolans as selfish and greedy.

The stadium project ultimately failed to gain support in the State Legislature and died this June, shortly before Mr. Ross and Mr. Roth were selected to develop Moynihan Station. It was not long before the developers renewed their effort to lure the Garden westward.

"It's ironic that Cablevision may come out of this a double winner, not only defeating the Jets, but achieving an optimal location," Ms. Tighe said.

The talks are at an early stage, and neither side wants to talk publicly about the project. A spokesman for Mr. Roth said that "he never comments during negotiations."

But according to executives who know of the discussions, the issues include how much money the developers would pay for the property, a sum that could easily exceed $500 million, and whether the Garden would get a stake in the new skyscrapers. There is also a question of whether a new Garden could be shoehorned into the existing post office annex on Ninth Avenue, or require demolition and a new building.

The developers, who envision gleaming new towers and glass canopies over Penn Station, contend that a new commercial and residential district will emerge if the Garden vacates its site, the executives said. The city would gain jobs and tax revenues, since the Garden has a property tax exemption that is worth more than $10 million a year.


Still, the Garden's owners are not taking any chances. They continue to pursue plans for a renovation.

Any plans to move the Garden and redevelop its current site would require city approval.

The idea of moving the Garden off its current location is not new.

Eighteen years ago, Paul Reichmann, a Canadian real estate tycoon who headed Olympia & York, then the city's largest commercial landlord, put together a $2.5 billion deal to move the Garden to the railyards and build new set of skyscrapers designed by Frank Gehry on the existing site. Mr. Reichmann viewed the Far West Side as Manhattan's last frontier.

But ultimately, the Garden, then owned by Gulf and Western, scuttled the deal, saying it was too expensive and too risky to move away from Penn Station.

The Garden's peripatetic existence is but one example of how some of the city's public spaces often succumbed to private real estate deals.

In 1874, P. T. Barnum opened Barnum's Monster Classical and Geological Hippodrome in an old train depot at Madison Avenue and 26th Street. He was succeeded by another impresario, Patrick S. Gilmore, who took over the building in 1876 and renamed it Gilmore's Garden. Then, in 1879, William H. Vanderbilt took control of the building and christened it Madison Square Garden.

Mr. Vanderbilt focused on sports rather than oddities, creating a track for competitive cycling, building the first artificial ice rink in North America and sponsoring boxing exhibitions with John L. Sullivan. He knocked the building down in 1889, replacing it with an entertainment hall designed by McKim, Mead & White. It had the country's largest auditorium, a concert hall and cabaret, becoming home to the National Horse Show, the Westminster Kennel Club show, boxing matches, bicycle races, circuses and rodeos.

But in 1925, Garden II was demolished to make way for the headquarters of New York Life Insurance. A new Garden opened uptown, at Eighth Avenue and 50th Street, becoming famous for boxing, college basketball's National Invitation Tournament and the New York Knicks. Sonja Henie took her Hollywood Ice Revue there in 1938. But the building had poor sight lines and few amenities. (It is now the site of the Worldwide Plaza office tower.)

It was replaced in 1968 by the current Garden, a circular arena atop Pennsylvania Station. It was here that Joe Frazier beat Muhammad Ali on points in 1971, the Rev. Sun Myung Moon presided over the marriages of 2,075 couples in 1982, and the Rangers won Game 7 of the Stanley Cup championship in 1994.
__________________

I am the original thread killer.

Last edited by bagel; September 12th, 2005 at 06:53 AM.
bagel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2005, 01:46 AM   #45
NYC-GDL
DNYPET.COM
 
NYC-GDL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: guadalajara/new york city
Posts: 291
Likes (Received): 1

HI first time here. NY. needs to bilt higher, we can't be left behind
NYC-GDL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 13th, 2005, 02:45 AM   #46
alexx02
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 54
Likes (Received): 2

I love the new design. I think it's great. The old potato chip design was interesting, but I like the way this one recalls the old Penn Station.

Next question, when tehy say the new MSG, do they mean it will knock down some of the Farley station? Or will it be built in another space. I'm just curious.
alexx02 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2005, 06:05 PM   #47
7 World Trade
Long live the Twins!
 
7 World Trade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,116
Likes (Received): 4

^ i hope they won't demolish part of the farley post office for it. otherwise, it can be said that we learned nothing from the demise of the original penn station.

if they're really gonna demolish the west part of the post office building to build the 5th madison square garden, then i say that it's better to just renovate the current one. sure, it killed the penn station, but demolishing it won't bring the original penn station back, so why bother?
__________________
UNWAVERING SUPPORTER OF THE REBUILDING OF THE WTC TWIN TOWERS
Team Twin Towers- Standing Tall Together
Twin Towers Alliance- What the People want-What New York Needs-What America Deserves
The Ground Zero Rebuilding Scandal- Justin Berzon's complete story of the WTC rebuilding scandal
Proud fan of NASCAR drivers Kevin Harvick and Scott Wimmer
7 World Trade no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2005, 09:00 PM   #48
bagel
Member, Winifred Fan Club
 
bagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 2,970
Likes (Received): 53

If they do move the Garden to the west, the best that I could hope for is for them to shoehorn it into the Farley... I think they do pretty well situated where they are right now and seems a lot more accessible. Why would they want to move west? It seems like a wasted effort for them to move Penn Station out from the bowels of MSG only to have MSG sit on top of Penn Station again.
__________________

I am the original thread killer.
bagel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 06:46 AM   #49
TalB
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,536
Likes (Received): 96

Honestly, I think that MSG has been moved enough times. Originally when the owner wanted to build MSG V, it was going to be where the Jets stadium was proposed, but that was really to get a deal with the unions. As a result, the current one, MSG IV, was rennovated and is now better than ever. What will replace it if it is to be demolished? A new terminal building for Penn Station?
TalB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2005, 11:06 PM   #50
TalB
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,536
Likes (Received): 96

http://www.nysun.com/article/20537
Mayor Seeking Momentum on Penn Station

BY JEREMY SMERD - Special to the Sun
September 26, 2005

The Dalai Lama, usually preoccupied with matters of religion or foreign policy, yesterday tackled a more mundane matter, endorsing the idea of spending nearly $1 billion to turn the Farley Post Office in Manhattan into a new train station for commuters.

The Dalai Lama appeared yesterday on the steps of the post office with Mayor Bloomberg at an event designed to lend momentum to the construction of what would be called Moynihan Station, after the senator from New York who died in 2003. The senator's daughter, Maura, also attended the event.

The religious and political leader of the people of Tibet said that it was his "unique, close friendship" with Daniel Patrick Moynihan that led to his interest in the train station. For years a harsh critic of Chinese policies in Tibet, which led to the deaths of a million Tibetans and the destruction of thousands of monasteries, Moynihan championed a congressional resolution that recognized the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government in exile.

Yesterday, speaking through a translator, the Dalai Lama said the station will "contribute to the joy and ease of movement for the people of this city." Then he interrupted himself with his halting English. "We should carry out his wish," he said with a broad smile.

The $930 million Moynihan Station would transform the beaux-arts James A. Farley Post Office, bordered by Eighth and Ninth avenues and 31st and 33rd streets, into a 400,000-square-foot train station that would expand commuter railroad service in the region, serving New Jersey Transit and possibly other commuter lines. It is slated to include an additional 250,000 square feet for the U.S. Postal Service and 750,000 square feet for retail, office, or residential use.

Plans for the station have proceeded in fits and starts for more than a decade.

By the time the senator died in 2003, he had earmarked nearly $800 million for the project, Maura Moynihan, who is a fellow at the Regional Plan Association, said.

The project, though, had become overshadowed by plans to rebuild Lower Manhattan in the wake of September 11, 2001, the mayor's unsuccessful efforts to construct a West Side stadium, and a host of other transportation projects such as plans for a Second Avenue subway line and a link between JFK Airport and Lower Manhattan.

Last year, Congress nearly reallocated $40 million from Moynihan Station to the extension of the Long Island Rail Road to Grand Central Terminal known as East Side Access.

Yesterday's appearance by the 70-year-old Dalai Lama comes at a time of renewed interest in the station.

In July, the Empire State Development Corporation, which is charged with developing the site, selected Related Companies and Vornado Realty Trust to develop the building.

Also this summer, Ms. Moynihan joined the Regional Plan Association to help promote her father's vision.

"The Dalai Lama really wanted to say thank you to his friends who were there during the lean years," she told The New York Sun, referring to the time before 1987 when the Dalai Lama won the Nobel Peace Prize and the plight of Tibetan statehood became an international cause celebre.

Mr. Bloomberg, who took some criticism early in his administration for meeting with the vice president of Communist China, yesterday gave the key to the city to the Dalai Lama, who is considered an enemy by the Chinese government. Mr. Bloomberg called the vision of a new station Moynihan's "final gift."

"It will stand, I think, as a fitting tribute to Pat Moynihan as well as a bold monument to the international spirit the Dalai Lama has dedicated his life to," the mayor said.

The Dalai Lama normally eschews such honors and has refused offers of citizenship from other countries. Usually speaking of himself as nothing more than a simple monk, he retains his legal status as a displaced refugee who fled Tibet in 1959. But with about 3,000 Tibetans living in the tri-state area, and thousands more who traveled to the city yesterday to receive his blessing, he received the key graciously.

With the project eight years behind schedule, its proponents say they hope yesterday's endorsement by the Dalai Lama will give Moynihan Station new momentum to build, as Mr. Bloomberg put it yesterday, "a grand gateway to millions from around the world."

The Dalai Lama, who is recovering from a cold, is scheduled to complete his two-week tour of America today with an appearance at Columbia University, which is marking a newly endowed faculty position in Tibetan Buddhist studies.
TalB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2005, 09:33 AM   #51
bagel
Member, Winifred Fan Club
 
bagel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 2,970
Likes (Received): 53

What the heck? Why would the Dalai Lama's opinion on Penn Station matter?
__________________

I am the original thread killer.
bagel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2005, 05:59 PM   #52
7 World Trade
Long live the Twins!
 
7 World Trade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,116
Likes (Received): 4

^ well, if the dalai lama talks about it and endorses it, it'll help to create more public awareness about this new project to resurrect the former grandeur of the penn station. i mean, im sure that not many people outside nyc know about this project, but once someone really famous endorses it, it'll make the news.

it's just like how the team twin towers movement was largely obscure to many people, even to native new yorkers, until trump openly endorsed the idea of rebuilding the twins and embraced the belton-gardner plan.

the endorsement of products by athletes and stars work pretty much the same way too. it's all about the marketing.
__________________
UNWAVERING SUPPORTER OF THE REBUILDING OF THE WTC TWIN TOWERS
Team Twin Towers- Standing Tall Together
Twin Towers Alliance- What the People want-What New York Needs-What America Deserves
The Ground Zero Rebuilding Scandal- Justin Berzon's complete story of the WTC rebuilding scandal
Proud fan of NASCAR drivers Kevin Harvick and Scott Wimmer
7 World Trade no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2005, 09:12 AM   #53
TalB
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,536
Likes (Received): 96

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/re...te/16scap.html
Is Old Penn Station's Killer Significant? Or Unforgivable?

By CHRISTOPHER GRAY
Published: October 16, 2005


Marilynn K. Yee/The New York Times

A BUILDING WE LOVE TO HATE? It is included in a list of significant modern buildings because of how its urban-planning changes affected the city. But one critic calls it "unforgivable by any standard."



www.metrohistory.com

Madison Square Garden in 1970.


ARE you exhausted by the drawn-out battle to preserve the architect Edward Durell Stone's 1965 art museum at Columbus Circle? Well, if you couldn't get your head around landmark protection for that Venetian-marble fantasy, you may gulp at the next threatened work of mid-20th-century architecture to be considered important.

Included in a list of significant modern buildings in Manhattan by three leading preservation organizations, including the local chapter of the modern architecture group Docomomo U.S., is one that may make you wince: the 1968 Madison Square Garden, which infamously wiped out the original Pennsylvania Station.

By the late 1950's, the old Penn Station, designed by McKim, Mead & White at Seventh Avenue south of 34th Street, was dying. It was a half-century-old monument to rail travel gasping for breath in a new atmosphere of airplane fuel and automobile gasoline.

A development group led by Irving Felt floated plans for a vast, futuristic arena with a swooping, saddle-shaped roof and two Guggenheim Museum-like swirls on one end. It had the goofy grandeur of a Martian spaceport from Popular Science magazine. The project was designed by Charles Luckman, who had trained as an architect but became president of Lever Brothers and was in large part responsible for commissioning the firm's sleek 1952 headquarters, designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, at 52nd Street and Park Avenue.

The arena project found a landing place on the site of Penn Station. The possible demise of the station's brooding grandeur for what was to become the new Madison Square Garden provoked a storm of controversy. But the preservationist Harmon Goldstone, later the chairman of the Landmarks Preservation Commission, wrote optimistically: "Is the proposed new building, for its own purpose in its own idiom, going to be as inspiring a design as McKim, Mead & White's? There is no reason why it cannot be."

Luckman, who had returned to architecture, reduced his design to a drum-shaped 20,000-seat arena, with a facade of precast concrete panels. To avoid interior columns, the structural engineers Severud-Perrone-Fischer-Sturm-Conlin-Bandel designed a 400-foot-wide roof supported by cables, in the manner of the Roman Colosseum, which had a fabric roof.

Perhaps not expecting much, contemporary critics said little about the resulting Madison Square Garden. In 1967, Ada Louise Huxtable, the architecture critic of The New York Times, briefly called it "neither avant-garde nor high architectural art." The magazine Progressive Architecture noted that, based on the rate of replacement of prior Madison Square Gardens - this was its fourth incarnation, taking over for one at 49th Street and Eighth Avenue - "the present one should come down about the year 2000."

But later writers did not hesitate to weigh in. Among them was Paul Goldberger, the successor to Ms. Huxtable as architecture critic for The Times. In his book "The City Observed: New York" (Random House, 1979) he called it "a graceless, sloppy, cheap entertainment and office complex that would be an insult to an empty site in the middle of nowhere."

"For this," he said, "there is no excuse."

And Richard David Story, in New York magazine in 1987, listed it in the top 10 of "The Buildings New Yorkers Love to Hate," along with the World Trade Center and the Edward Durell Stone building.

The site of Luckman's Madison Square Garden has been considered for redevelopment since the 1990's. Now its owner, Madison Square Garden Inc., is negotiating to build a new Garden nearby and to replace its 1968 building with a mixed-use complex. The new Garden would be just west of the current one, on Eighth Avenue, at the west end of the General Post Office building.

But architectural history is catching up with many iconic demons of 1960's architecture. Preservation organizations like Landmark West! are still fighting for landmark status for the Columbus Circle structure. Last year, the old Pan Am Building (now the MetLife Building), north of Grand Central Terminal, was the subject of a monograph, "The Pan Am Building and the Shattering of the Modernist Dream" (MIT Press, 2004), by Meredith Clausen, a professor of architectural history at the University of Washington, Seattle.

It was also last year that the "Manhattan Modern Map" was co-published by three groups: the Temple Hoyne Buell Center for the Study of American Architecture, at Columbia University; the World Monuments Fund; and the New York/Tristate chapter of Docomomo U.S., which is devoted to preserving modern architecture. A stimulating, provocative document, the map is available for $7 at www.urbancenterbooks.org.

The map includes more than 150 modern buildings built before 1980, noting that "the majority, recognized by local and national preservation organizations as significant, have not yet been singled out for protection in a formal designation process."

The list includes official landmarks, like the Guggenheim Museum, Lever House and the Whitney Museum. But it also lists lesser-known structures, like the Spartan-seeming Stuyvesant Town housing complex, from 14th to 20th Street between First Avenue and Avenue C, and the funky, pink brick United Parcel Service building at 43rd Street from 11th to 12th Avenue. It also lists Madison Square Garden.

The times in historic preservation have been a-changing since the landmarks law was passed in 1965, but to single out the successor to Penn Station plucks a sacrilegious chord.

"This building remains unforgivable by any standard," Mr. Goldberger, now dean of the Parsons School of Design, wrote in an e-mail message. Diana Goldstein, who was among those who sparked the original protests and picket lines around Penn Station in 1962, wrote in an e-mail, "Who on earth thinks that building is worth preserving?"

Nina Rappaport, co-chairwoman of Docomomo's local chapter, qualified the map's language. She wrote in an e-mail that "the reasoning was more for the building's urban-planning changes and how that affected the city, not for its architectural beauty."

But a decade or two ago, the idea of landmark designation for the Edward Durell Stone building would have been greeted by many with hoots - and now it is a preservation cause célèbre in New York, with another round of lawsuits under way.

Diane Jackier, a spokeswoman for the Landmarks Preservation Commission, said by e-mail that the commission has "not made any determination" about the Garden, a statement that may cause old-line preservationists to cringe. But the case for landmark designation is, on the face of it, rather strong: it is a unique building, designed by an important architect, with unusual engineering and a complex history.

Kate Wood, executive director of Landmark West!, said in an e-mail that the group has to mull the building's significance but that "I'm all for a public hearing for Madison Square Garden."

"It would tell us a lot about where we are in our ability to evaluate the architectural and historical significance of the recent past," she said. "The Landmarks Preservation Commission needs to embrace, not shy away from, this kind of discussion."
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post
TalB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 26th, 2005, 09:15 AM   #54
TalB
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,536
Likes (Received): 96

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index...esult=1&stid=8
New Jersey Transit Signs On As Moynihan Station Tenant

November 22, 2005

The Moynihan Station project took a big step forward Monday with the signing on of a tenant.

Until now, the plan to turn the Farley Post Office on Eighth Avenue into a train station has been looking for a railroad to sign on.

But New York State and New Jersey Transit reached a deal Monday. New JerseyTtransit plans to vacate its cramped quarters at Penn Station to become the principal tenant across the street in the renovated building.

Commuters will also be able to access the Long Island Railroad and Amtrak platforms through the new space, so even though those two railroads are technically staying put in the old Penn Station, riders will be able to take advantage of the new space.
TalB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 22nd, 2006, 07:59 PM   #55
TalB
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,536
Likes (Received): 96

Crain's

Time running out for new Garden deal

Developers would expand station, add hotel, office tower

By Anne Michaud
Published on January 16, 2006

Negotiations are intensifying over the construction of a spacious new Madison Square Garden in a renovated James A. Farley Post Office as a mid-February deadline looms.

The Related Cos. and Vornado Realty Trust are in talks to build a new Garden a block west, to the Ninth Avenue side of the Farley building, as part of their $556 million project turning the midtown property into the Moynihan Station transit hub.

The parameters of the deal are in flux. One scenario being discussed has Garden owner Cablevision Systems Corp. relinquishing air rights for the current facility. Related and Vornado would demolish it and revive the glory days when the original Penn Station was an architectural marvel and city gateway. The Garden sits atop the station, which since 1963 has been a warren of dark tunnels and fast-food shops.

The developers would install glass canopies over Penn Station and build towers for a convention hotel, offices, stores and apartments, say sources familiar with the negotiations between the companies and Cablevision.

Time is running out for a deal, though. After years of delay, Vornado and Related, bidding jointly, won the right in July to develop the post office. As envisioned then, the project--named in honor of the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan--would expand Penn Station across Eighth Avenue, connect an array of subway and commuter lines, and create 700,000 square feet of space for retail, office and residential use. If, however, the developers and Cablevision can come to an agreement, a new Madison Square Garden would replace that mixed-use component.

The developers need a resolution one way or another within a month so that they can proceed with designing and cost analysis. They must guarantee a maximum construction cost by June, when New York state officials will close on the $230 million purchase of the post office from the federal government.

By moving Madison Square Garden, Cablevision executives Charles and James Dolan could replace the cramped, dated venue with wider concourses, stores and restaurants. Lucrative new luxury boxes would also offer better sight lines to Rangers and Knicks fans.

Grand new Garden

New York could emerge with a more beautiful train station in place of the Garden--grander even than the originally envisioned Moynihan Station. "It would be a fabulous improvement," says a government official familiar with the talks.

A Cablevision spokesman says that the company is considering all options.

The relocation plan could falter on economics. Cablevision now enjoys a city property tax break that amounts to more than $10 million a year. The Koch administration made the concession to keep the arena's business in the city. The Garden would lose that benefit in a new location, and government officials estimate that property taxes at the proposed site could total $75 million a year.

The Dolans have approached state officials about retaining the break. But Charles Gargano, chairman of the Empire State Development Corp., says New York state is unwilling to intervene in what is essentially a negotiation with city officials.

Deputy Mayor Daniel Doctoroff says the Dolans have not spoken to him. Cablevision spent more than $30 million to defeat Mr. Doctoroff's dream of a West Side stadium to host the 2012 Olympic games, and the relationship is a bitter one.

"We've had no conversations with them at all," Mr. Doctoroff says. "You can be sure we will do the right thing for the city's financial health."

Comments? [email protected]
TalB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2006, 04:43 PM   #56
LeCom
Registered User
 
LeCom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,420
Likes (Received): 842

A week ago I attended a corporate lunch cause I'm a part of the design team for this thing.
__________________

mrsmartman liked this post
LeCom no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2006, 11:14 PM   #57
TalB
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,536
Likes (Received): 96

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/15/ny...pagewanted=all
Madison Square Garden Owners Discuss One-Block Move

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
Published: February 15, 2006

The owners of Madison Square Garden, the storied arena that is inextricably tied to the city's sports history, are close to an agreement with two developers to move one block west to a new $750 million home on Ninth Avenue, according to real estate executives and government officials.

Under the proposed agreement, the Garden would move to the western half of the block-long James A. Farley Building, the post office that is being transformed into a $930 million transit hub to be a gateway to New York City. It is to be called Moynihan Station, after Daniel Patrick Moynihan, the senator who was its champion until his death in 2003.

Moving the Garden to what would be its fifth home in 131 years would open up the possibility of transforming the dowdy site where the Garden now sits, on Eighth Avenue between 31st and 33rd Streets. The developers, Stephen M. Ross of Related Companies and Steven Roth of Vornado Realty Trust, would replace the current arena with a pair of skyscrapers and an elaborate glass skylight that would open up the crowded Pennsylvania Station down below, according to the officials and executives.

"This project has to respect the integrity of the Farley Building and create a grand gateway to the city," said Robert D. Yaro, president of the Regional Plan Association, "but it would be a big plus for the city and the region if we could also gain transit capacity and regain the amenities of the old Penn Station by moving the Garden."

The owners of the Garden and the developers have been discussing the feasibility of the project for six months, although neither side has talked about it publicly. But at a fashion party at the Rainbow Room in Rockefeller Center last week, an excited James L. Dolan, the chairman of the Garden, approached Charles A. Gargano, the state's top economic development official and chairman of the Moynihan Station Development Corporation, saying he wanted to build a new home for the Knicks, Rangers and Liberty teams.

Mr. Gargano declined to go into detail about the conversation, but he confirmed that the developers, who were selected to create Moynihan Station, were interested in moving the Garden to the Farley and redeveloping the land where the arena now sits. Mr. Gargano said he would consider the proposal, but he did not "want it to delay the transportation project, which is the primary purpose here."

Even if the two sides come to terms in the coming weeks, however, the project would face a number of potential hitches. For one, it may prove difficult to put the Garden in the post office structure, which is a landmark building, without significantly affecting the facade. That could foil the Moynihan developers' desire to get valuable federal tax credits for historic preservation, which could cover 20 percent of the cost of the project.

For another, the move would need the approval of the man with whom the Garden owners slugged it out last year over an ultimately failed plan to build a football stadium on the West Side for the Jets: Michael R. Bloomberg. So far, city officials say there have been no formal talks between the owners of the Garden and Mayor Bloomberg. The city has taken the position in the past that the Garden's property tax exemption, which is worth more than $10 million a year, would not apply to a new site, even one a block away.

The developers have told city officials informally that moving the Garden would benefit the city by completely renovating Penn Station and by putting the land above it back on the tax rolls.

Some urban planners and preservationists also wonder whether an arena at the west end of the Farley building would overwhelm the very things that Senator Moynihan had sought to create: a train station that would allow Pennsylvania Station, which serves 550,000 commuters a day, to expand to the west and create a public space akin to Grand Central Terminal.

"Madison Square Garden has already eaten one Penn Station," said Kent Barwick, president of the Municipal Art Society, a private planning group that has taken a keen interest in Moynihan Station.

Forty-three years ago, the original Penn Station, a Beaux-Arts masterpiece designed by McKim, Mead & White, was demolished to make way for the Garden. Architects and preservationists, still incensed by that decision, hope that the city can finally make amends by turning the Farley post office, which was also designed by McKim, Mead & White, into a dramatic public building.

The Farley is actually two structures: The original 1913 building, with the grand staircase on Eighth Avenue and two-block-long row of Corinthian columns, and an annex built in 1935. In an early design by the architect David Childs, a soaring glass arch over a public hall would bridge the space between the two structures.

But executives familiar with the plan say that the glass arch would be eliminated to make room for the Garden, although a concourse for commuters remains part of the plan. They also said that the Garden would rise above the height of the Farley building.
TalB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2006, 10:05 PM   #58
BigMac
Special Sauce
 
BigMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 564
Likes (Received): 6

Crain Communications
March 2, 2006

Cablevision agrees to build new Garden

by Anne Michaud

Cablevision Systems Corp. signed a memorandum of understanding to build a new Madison Square Garden one block west, on Ninth Avenue.

Cablevision Systems Corp. signed a memorandum of understanding to build a new Madison Square Garden one block west, on Ninth Avenue, as part of the James A. Farley Post Office renovation, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

The current Garden atop Penn Station would be demolished to make way for a mixed-use tower and to restore the station to its former glory. Details of the agreement are sketchy, but a source said The Related Cos. brokered the deal by smoothing over hard feelings remaining from the West Side stadium fight between the Bloomberg administration and Cablevision executive James Dolan, the Garden’s chairman.

Related and Vornado Realty Trust are under a state contract to renovate the Farley Post Office. The Garden deal stalled in early January when Cablevision held out for better financial terms, sources said.

It isn't clear whether the Garden will keep a city property tax break that MSG receives at its current site amounting to more than $10 million annually. Former Mayor Ed Koch agreed to the break in order to prevent the Knicks and Rangers from leaving town.

The Garden will take up the western half of the $556 million Farley renovation. The space was originally slated for office and retail development. The eastern half of the project will be redeveloped as the Moynihan Station transit hub. The State Development Corp. says it is moving forward with Moynihan Station and expects a final project design by June.

©2006 Crain Communications Inc.
BigMac no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 2nd, 2006, 11:50 PM   #59
johnt_gr
A greek iberista
 
johnt_gr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Corfu Town
Posts: 257
Likes (Received): 20

The current Garden atop Penn Station would be demolished to make way for a mixed-use tower and to restore the station to its former glory. Details of the agreement are sketchy, but a source said The Related Cos. brokered the deal by smoothing over hard feelings remaining from the West Side stadium fight between the Bloomberg administration and Cablevision executive James Dolan, the Garden’s chairman.



So THE ORIGINAL OLD PENN STATION WILL BE REBUILAD AT 7TH AND 34TH??
johnt_gr no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2006, 08:31 AM   #60
alexx02
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 54
Likes (Received): 2

Wait. So we are going to have a Penn Station and a Moynihan station facing each other? Isn't that kind of pointless?
alexx02 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 


Reply

Tags
new york, nyc, usa

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pittsburgh Development News ohpenn Northeast and MidAtlantic Development News 466 June 20th, 2018 12:49 AM
Canada Line Discussion | Metro Vancouver | In Service Aug 17 13:00-21:00 crazyjoeda BC Transportation & Infrastructure 1905 September 10th, 2009 05:22 AM
Liverpool Development Summary 2 JUXTAPOL Liverpool Metro Area 719 July 25th, 2008 05:21 PM
Battersea Power Station redevelopment wjfox London Metro Area 359 June 24th, 2008 09:32 PM


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us