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Old June 23rd, 2015, 12:43 PM   #41
cyril sneer
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I quite like the curved glazed faced of 1 Chamberlain Square building but i don't like 2 Chamberlian Square. The exposed straight lined squared concrete columns are far too dominant. At least in No 1 these columns are recessed somewhat in the glazed facade. No 2 just seems to be another concrete framed structure replacing another concrete structure to me and will age very quickly. I also don't understand the argument for not providing an innovative eye catching building as it would perhaps impact upon the Victorian buildings either. There are numerous example of how contempory buildings live side-by-side with historical buildings.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 01:21 PM   #42
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I think that while it might not hit the spot for personal tastes, there are many reasons why this is different to the old library and why we are not repeating the mistakes of the '60s again. For me, the major problems of that period were:

- experimental streets: sky walks, subways, bridges, corridors. This development wins on this point as it restores the old street pattern and the idea of square-ish blocks.
- loss of sightlines: by building things across roads and paths there was a major destruction of any kind of flow through a city.
- designed plainness: buildings intentionally made as plain as possible with no real attempt at decoration. Whether this development is attempting this is arguable.
- use of plain, untreated concrete in facades.
- road traffic priority at all costs. This development on the other hand is actually impeding traffic (not that that's a good thing) during its development.
- confusing plots that cross roads, join onto one another, and are difficult to demolish and rebuild in the future. It's much easier to fix past mistakes if buildings are just buildings, rather than whole cities in a building.

The actual designs of the buildings themselves are another matter, but for the points above I feel this is a much better development than anything the '60s threw out, and that we aren't repeating the mistakes of the past. By returning to a street based city with identifiable plots we are creating a city we can amend in the future.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 02:24 PM   #43
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I also still think this development lost a great deal of my own respect when they named it Paradise. A complete piss take of the city and people. No hint of the city's heritage once again, another opportunity lost.
I Must disagree here as the area has always been known as Paradise in some way. There was once a road that ran from Town Hall to Alpha Tower/ Broad Street called Paradise Paradise Street. What is more befitting of the area than naming it after its origins in the first place. The name Paradise is in this instance symbolic of the cities history.

In this instance i think it is you who doesn't show a complete understanding of the city's development history here, not the developer.

Also, with regard to 2 Chamberlain Sq, I want to point everyone to a similar setting for which Glenn Howells were responsible for an architectural response. One St Peter's Square. Although not exactly the same, would people have been happier with something like that instead?
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 02:59 PM   #44
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Haven't we had this discussion before? Paradise Place I personally think would be best, anything is better than Paradise, we're just asking for people to laugh at us with that name
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 03:21 PM   #45
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Haven't we had this discussion before? Paradise Place I personally think would be best, anything is better than Paradise, we're just asking for people to laugh at us with that name
By removing the second word they've changed the meaning of 'Paradise' from an adjective to a noun, and that's what is causing the problem.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 03:26 PM   #46
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Quote:
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I Must disagree here as the area has always been known as Paradise in some way. There was once a road that ran from Town Hall to Alpha Tower/ Broad Street called Paradise Paradise Street. What is more befitting of the area than naming it after its origins in the first place. The name Paradise is in this instance symbolic of the cities history.

In this instance i think it is you who doesn't show a complete understanding of the city's development history here, not the developer.

Also, with regard to 2 Chamberlain Sq, I want to point everyone to a similar setting for which Glenn Howells were responsible for an architectural response. One St Peter's Square. Although not exactly the same, would people have been happier with something like that instead?
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree then djay

I think also, without wishing to sound condescending, maybe you could take the opportunity to educate yourself a bit here: http://billdargue.jimdo.com/placenam...es-p/paradise/

It's well explained, I think. There has never been a place called 'Paradise' in this location, it has always been paired with another word to make more sense, like row, close and ultimately forum.

The word paradise on it's own is a term for a place in which existence is positive, harmonious and eternal. Garden of Eden etc and in Birmingham's case looks as though it originated from a field and subsequently a small short road or lane attached to that.

As you may, or may not appreciate djay? These days, the word paradise, on it's own, conjures up images of tranquil palm lined beaches etc ect. So to name an immense concrete, metal, glass and brick office complex with commercial high street shops and cafes as 'Paradise' is asking for ridicule both by locals and those looking for a reason to rip the piss out of the city. It's utterly ridiculous and extremely naive to think otherwise. Just my humble opinion.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 03:29 PM   #47
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If it were a field full of posies and water features then yeah, OK I'll go with that. Someone is taking the proverbial here and looks like they're getting away with it.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 04:04 PM   #48
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The most consistent theme here over the last 150 years has been education: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/os-...mingham/014/05

Sad that we have now lost that to commercial bland office complex but such is life and you cannot stop progress, I'm a great fan of the new library and the proposed Conservatoire. Perhaps a nod to this though would have been nice, both by name and by public art, I guess the Council/Developers don't really give a shit and are happy to simply wash it all away to make way for the commercial/corporate brands which will now occupy this site, they wouldn't want to be associated with Birmingham's heritage now would they? Perhaps Madin's library can have its own walk of stars on Broad Street.

Last edited by Tony Bear; June 23rd, 2015 at 04:11 PM.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 04:23 PM   #49
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I see your point now with the additional explanation, but it is ludicrous to suggest the name has nothing to do with the history of Birmingham as your first post purported in the word origin.

Perhaps they could have linked it to something else, changed the name completely who knows. But with all things, this is clearly a Marketing name and highly unlikely to stick in my opinion as this won't be a new area like Brindley Place or Eastside... It is an established area and will inevitably take the name of the most prominent square as the two proposed buildings already have.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 04:41 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djay View Post
I see your point now with the additional explanation, but it is ludicrous to suggest the name has nothing to do with the history of Birmingham as your first post purported in the word origin.

Perhaps they could have linked it to something else, changed the name completely who knows. But with all things, this is clearly a Marketing name and highly unlikely to stick in my opinion as this won't be a new area like Brindley Place or Eastside... It is an established area and will inevitably take the name of the most prominent square as the two proposed buildings already have.
Apologies, I probably did not explain myself properly initially. But it's still a fact that Paradise has no bearing to the main area of this development historically. Paradise St no longer exists and had no route through here. It would have made more sense to name one of the buildings opposite Alpha Tower as Paradise Place or Tower, and have a small square Paradise Square. But the main development really, would be far better adopting something like Paradise Place, or keep Chamberlain Square and utilise it in a wider sense and then perhaps you could even keep 'Paradise Street or Walk as the area leading to Centenary Square. It just is so silly to name this whole area 'Paradise'.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 04:52 PM   #51
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What a surprise! Another disgusting building for Birmingham. Not to mention the total lack of consideration for the surrounding area. All this 'building' does for me is emphasise the sheer beauty of those more traditional structures around it.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 04:59 PM   #52
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Not to mention the total lack of consideration for the surrounding area. All this 'building' does for me is emphasise the sheer beauty of those more traditional structures around it.
I think that was kind of the point... just guessing of course.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 05:33 PM   #53
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press see the vision on the paradise webpage.



When I read this, I felt like a small child looking up at an adult who was talking down to them in a very pronounced, slow fashion.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 06:06 PM   #54
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When I read this, I felt like a small child looking up at an adult who was talking down to them in a very pronounced, slow fashion.
Well, your name is Ralph.

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Old June 23rd, 2015, 09:25 PM   #55
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Hahaha it was very matter of fact. I was just tired at the time and couldn't be bothered to post a link.
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 09:43 PM   #56
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I'll admit that this pic looks stunning. And I like the look of the tower nearest Alpha, it's the rest that alarms me and the view from Cent Square just hasn't been thought out well enough.

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Old June 23rd, 2015, 11:28 PM   #57
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Well, your name is Ralph.




Who is that?
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Old June 23rd, 2015, 11:41 PM   #58
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When are people going to realise that high quality, subtle buildings like this are vital to improving our cityscape. Not every building has to have the 'wow factor'. Otherwise we would end up with a City full of things like the Library, Selfridges and the Cube, which would...... not look good.
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Old June 24th, 2015, 12:54 AM   #59
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Who is that?
Ralph Wiggum
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Old June 24th, 2015, 01:20 AM   #60
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