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Old March 31st, 2016, 11:53 AM   #121
Develo
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Quote:
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Unfortunately Alpha's listing seems to mean that nothing taller than it can be built within a thousand meters of it but I like the massing of your attempt. :cheerS:

The V-building had planning permission didn't it? I hope blandara sort there act out with their plot!!!
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Old March 31st, 2016, 12:35 PM   #122
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Hi, Develo - though the council granted permission for the V Building, the final extension ran out in 2014 (coincidentally, the same year Alpha was listed). Whatever Dandara eventually does, it won't be on the same Brobdingnagian scale.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 06:28 PM   #123
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Unfortunately Alpha's listing seems to mean that nothing taller than it can be built within a thousand meters of it but I like the massing of your attempt. :cheerS:
If it is meant to be a focal point of Arena Central, they haven't done a very good job of achieving that.

It doesn't even do it here. It just blends in to the bulk from all angles, regardless of whether a 75 metre tower or 150 metre tower is built beside it. They'd be better off leaving it as a car park.







What this plot next to Alpha needs is a building that too would be listed in the future, the V proposal which is just a funked up glass box, would probably have been listed, but wouldn't be as deserving as a building to the style of one I suggested.

They should be more concerned with the quality of the building than the height of it. The height isn't really an issue and a building of height on this plot looks much better than the massing we have now. Why they are allowing the dandara monstrosity to be built next to this listed building is beyond me. They need to stop being pedantic and sort their priorities out!
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Old March 31st, 2016, 07:56 PM   #124
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What the massing would look like if the blocks behind 1 arena central were taller
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Old March 31st, 2016, 08:05 PM   #125
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I agree BCA, i think the issue with Dandra is the proposal wasn't worthy enough of being taller.

I don't think the height is the issue also, the building next to it just needs to be high quality and not detract from Alpha.

It is also worth noting that we do not know why Arena Central have shortened it's tower. It is highly unlikely to be due to the Listing of Alpha as they already have permission for a sizable building here. This permission makes it hard for the Council to refuse.
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Old March 31st, 2016, 09:48 PM   #126
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I wonder if the site Moda are eyeing up might be Dandara's. Really surprised there's been no movement with the Glenn Howells proposal not happening now they would be in prime position to capitalise on the HSBC, paradise developments.
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Old April 1st, 2016, 03:38 PM   #127
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This should probably go in the Fantasy Birmingham thread, but please indulge me for a while...

As you probably know, Birmingham City Council is reviewing its city centre estate in view of the planned reduction in its staffing levels. Some buildings will close and those owned outright will be sold off. What if one of those was the Council House?

On the face of it, the things that may make the Council House unsuitable as a central administrative headquarters (too many cellular offices, too much space given to public rooms) could make it suitable for conversion to a rather grand hotel. It would even have on-site parking, at least once that rather Cold-War-looking piece of plant is removed from the access ramp.

If it did leave the Council House, where would the council go? Perhaps to a building that had some heritage - perhaps back to one it built itself some time ago. Say, the former Municipal Bank HQ at Arena Central.

That would have enough space for the reduced number of councillors we'll soon have, along with their advisors and perhaps the chief executive's office. The ground floor could serve as an open-plan meeting area for councillors and their constituents, or as an exhibition and civic reception space when needed.

The one snag is that the Bank building wouldn't be large enough on its own to accommodate even a reduced secretariat. But right across Bank Court there'll soon be 3 Arena Central, a ten-storey structure that might just do that job.

Imagine then that the developers of 3 Arena Central approach Chinese investors with a view to them bankrolling their first 'prestige' project in the city? They could guarantee the Chinese a tenant - the city council - that won't go bust or fail to pay its bills.

In operational terms, a split between two buildings wouldn't do either councillors or council officers any harm. On fine days they could walk between the 'new city hall' and 3 Arena Central in the sunshine, in bad weather they could cut through the car park (or put up umbrellas).

Making a move like this might also be a useful signal to everyone in Wesminster and beyond that the council really was prepared to leave the bad old past behind and embrace radical change.

Like I said, this is probably one for the Fantasy thread (and I should probably take more water with it)...but it's always fun playing with possibilities, innit?
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Old April 1st, 2016, 05:41 PM   #128
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I enjoyed reading the post, but I think they should stay in the Council House. I think having that as the HQ helps to send a message that we're a big, important city.
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Old April 1st, 2016, 06:29 PM   #129
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But with the dolman st stores for BMAG not guaranteed it would be awesome if the council took a pre let to get a development out the ground and BMAG expanded into the rest of the council house and had everything on display not in storage!
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Old April 1st, 2016, 06:52 PM   #130
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I think it would be so great for BMAG to expand into the council house. It would make for an extremely impressive museum and would be a massive draw to the city. It would be on the scale of some of the larger museums in London!

1 Arena Central seems more suited to housing the council than the bank though I think. It reminds me (very slightly) of London City Hall
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Old April 1st, 2016, 09:08 PM   #131
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Evening, all - thank you for not thinking that I should be carted off in a van with rubber walls.

The only problem with the notion of BMAG expanding to occupy the whole of the Council House is that the council's refused to give the Museums Trust a lease of longer than five years on the part that it occupies - the original gallery overlooking Edmund Street, with the porticoed entrance on Chamberlain Square. I don't know whether this lease term also applies to the Council House Extension (the bit we tend to think of as 'the gallery'), but I know it does to the store. Here's a link to a Birmingham Post article on the subject:

http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news...llery-11085303

At the same time, there's news of a new 'museum' at Smithfield (the thread's well worth visiting if you've not yet been there), with an as-yet-undeclared purpose. Perhaps BMAG's collections will be split between Edmund Street and here - imagine a new 'Pre-Raphaelite Gallery' if you will, with the Burne-Jones tapestries on permanent display in temperature and light-controlled conditions.

I know I'm putting two and two together and making something to the power of ten, but I do like to let what's left of my mind wander...

Last edited by Owd Dog; April 1st, 2016 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Couldn't get the link to work - sorry.
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Old April 1st, 2016, 09:43 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owd Dog View Post
At the same time, there's news of a new 'museum' at Smithfield (the thread's well worth visiting if you've not yet been there), with an as-yet-undeclared purpose. Perhaps BMAG's collections will be split between Edmund Street and here - imagine a new 'Pre-Raphaelite Gallery' if you will, with the Burne-Jones tapestries on permanent display in temperature and light-controlled conditions.

I know I'm putting two and two together and making something to the power of ten, but I do like to let what's left of my mind wander...
I had considered this as a possibility and really hope it isn't the case.

A large grand museum will be so much more popular and crowd pulling than two small ones.
Something new and distinct is needed at Smithfield.
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 01:47 PM   #133
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I’m interested to see a discussion emerging about the future of museums in the city, and I wonder if it isn’t worth a dedicated thread?

After all, the strategic importance of museums to the economies of cities all over the world is pretty self-evident. It’s also particularly important in the light of HS2: leaving aside business tourism, it’s easy to see why we would want to be in London in 49 minutes, but what would make Londoners get on a train to come here? Our retail offer is never going to match theirs, so it has to be something unique, and in that context museums (with higher profile temporary exhibitions than Birmingham has generally been able to manage) are one of the first things you think of.

Birmingham Museums (as the independent trust is now known) has fantastic collections and some wonderful branches like Aston and Blakesley Halls, Soho House and the Museum of the Jewellery Quarter. But the replacement of the old (free) Museum of the Science & Industry by Thinktank was a disaster in my view, and BMAG is basically moribund - certainly by comparison with its counterparts in M********r and Liverpool.

Basically the trust has hardly any money and when it has had any in recent years it has often used it to make things worse - dire education galleries (to be fair these may have predated the creation of the trust), a makeover of the cafe which looks like a tart’s boudoir and now a depressing gallery about religion in a space which used to be dedicated to 20th century art.

I wouldn’t say the new local history gallery had actually made it worse, but aspects of its presentation are very disappointing and overall it is remarkably poor value for the millions it cost.

Like others I’m curious to know what (if anything) the museum pencilled in for Smithfield might be. I suspect there may be no real proposal behind it at all. You may remember that back in about 2011 there were ambitious plans for a new museum quarter adjacent to the HS2 terminal. This would have consisted of the Museum of Contemporary Art then being actively pursued by the Ikon Gallery, and a permanent home for the Arts Council’s collection (currently housed on the South Bank, where there is no exhibition space). As a third element, the old Curzon Street station would have been converted into a photography gallery. It was the kind of vision that would have delivered a major boost to the visitor economy, but there was never any indication of how it would be funded.

Ikon has now given up on its museum, the Arts Council refused to do a unique deal with Birmingham (although it has added the city as a partner which may receive loans from its collection), and nothing more has been heard about Curzon Street.

Personally I think that there are two types of major museum the city could really do with: one dedicated to modern/contemporary art and a proper museum of local history which should cover its industrial past, using some of the many exhibits from the old Museum of Science & Industry which didn’t make the move to Thinktank. I note the point made by posters on the Smithfield thread about a local museum only having local appeal but (a) the city’s people deserve it and (b) I think this underestimates the international scale of the story the city has to tell about its contribution to the industrial revolution and 19th century civic improvement.

If in addition to that we could add a few more niche museums like the Pen Museum (a lot of people think we should have one dedicated to heavy metal music, for example) that would all add to the critical mass.

On the idea of BMAG taking over the Council House, I’m not sure how suitable it would be for museum use. What I would really like to see is the Council House Extension being devoted exclusively to museum use and subject to the kind of radical makeover the Ashmolean in Oxford went through a few years ago - that is, keeping the external walls but radically reconfiguring the internal spaces to give a more contemporary environment and improve circulation. Some of the existing spaces are little-visited dead-ends.

Unfortunately there is no money for this sort of project now. But if the Government is serious about rebalancig the nation’s economy that should include its cultural economy, in my opinion.
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 02:29 PM   #134
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We are at the centre of the transport network. A national museum of transport would be nice. Though I guess we have separate museums for different modes of transport around the country. The car museum being down the road in Coventry.
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 05:09 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsmothers View Post
Like others Iím curious to know what (if anything) the museum pencilled in for Smithfield might be. I suspect there may be no real proposal behind it at all. You may remember that back in about 2011 there were ambitious plans for a new museum quarter adjacent to the HS2 terminal. This would have consisted of the Museum of Contemporary Art then being actively pursued by the Ikon Gallery, and a permanent home for the Arts Councilís collection (currently housed on the South Bank, where there is no exhibition space). As a third element, the old Curzon Street station would have been converted into a photography gallery. It was the kind of vision that would have delivered a major boost to the visitor economy, but there was never any indication of how it would be funded.

Ikon has now given up on its museum, the Arts Council refused to do a unique deal with Birmingham (although it has added the city as a partner which may receive loans from its collection), and nothing more has been heard about Curzon Street.
A couple of points...

The space at Smithfield is currently only listed as a cultural attraction and not necessarily a museum.

The ambitious plans for a new museum quarter we part of the first HS2 masterplan which was widely criticised (partly for the lack of funding plan and lack of connectivity between this area and Digbeth which was largely forgotten about) and replace/re-worked into the Birmingham Curzon HS2 Masterplan that was adopted.
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 07:25 PM   #136
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Quote:
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A couple of points...

The space at Smithfield is currently only listed as a cultural attraction and not necessarily a museum.
Fair enough, I might have got slightly ahead of myself there.

Quote:
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The ambitious plans for a new museum quarter we part of the first HS2 masterplan which was widely criticised (partly for the lack of funding plan and lack of connectivity between this area and Digbeth which was largely forgotten about) and replace/re-worked into the Birmingham Curzon HS2 Masterplan that was adopted.
Well, as I said, there was never any suggestion of how it would be funded, and the difficulty of finding a way to do it was always obvious.

The attractive thing about the Arts Council Collection proposal is that this would have been a new national museum which happened to be located in Birmingham
but which the city would not have had to fund on its own.

Birmingham has not been smart at acquiring cultural facilities at other people's expense, unlike some of its rivals. Liverpool springs to mind.

In the past, it has even turned opportunities down. The National Museum of Photography was originally offered to Birmingham but the council wasn't interested, so it went to Bradford instead.
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Old September 22nd, 2016, 05:39 PM   #137
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Keep your eyes peeled!

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Planning application submitted for third building at Arena Central

September 21, 2016

A planning application has been submitted to Birmingham City Council for the third building at the landmark Arena Central development.

Arena Central Developments Limited (ACDL) has submitted an application for the delivery of the 240,782 sq ft 3 Arena Central, including 233,165 sq ft of high quality offices over ground and 13 upper floors with 3,148 sq ft of ancillary retail.

Positioned at the centre of the 9.2 acre development site, 3 Arena Central will open directly onto Bank Court, the site’s main square, and its landscaped public realm, the Terrace.

The building, which is targeted to achieve EPC A and BREEAM Excellent standards, will feature office floorplates of between 12,279 sq ft and 17,957 sq ft on the upper floors, with a ground floor suite of 5,406 sq ft. Secure car parking and cycle storage facilities will be available over three basement levels.

The exterior of the building will be clad in a geometric pattern of hexagonal metallic panels, while a double-height colonnade along the northern face will create a direct visual link and pedestrian route east-to-west across the site from Alpha Plaza to the canal basin.

Adjacent to Centenary Square and the Library of Birmingham and fronting Broad Street, Arena Central is a key commercial development for Birmingham, with outline consent in place for over 1 million sq ft of commercial space, including the 135,000 sq ft 1 Arena Central and 210,000 sq ft 2 Arena Central, the building selected by HSBC for the headquarters of its new ringfenced banking division, which will reach practical completion in 2017.

Arena Central is being delivered by ACDL, a joint venture led by Miller Developments.

Jonathan Wallis, ACDL and Miller Developments, said: “Our decision to submit these plans for 3 Arena Central demonstrates the confidence that we feel in the occupier market post-Brexit. By looking to secure planning consent now, we are minimising the lead-in time to the delivery of the building which, with the right occupier interest, could be delivered by Q1 2019.

“The property sector in the West Midlands is fast-moving, with a sustained focus on the city as a prime business destination and we want to be in a position to offer the best possible commercial opportunities to ensure that the city and wider region remains a viable and attractive proposition, contributing to a truly first-class city centre commercial development.

“Arena Central is a key strategic asset for Birmingham, having already attracted one leading global institution and with the capacity, capability and flexibility to provide class-leading commercial accommodation to further high-profile, large scale blue chip occupiers.”

3 Arena Central has been designed by renowned architectural practice, Make, and has been informed by its unique central position within the Arena Central masterplan and expressed through the geometric cladding which contrasts with the more formal setting of the predominantly stone-clad buildings facing Centenary Square.

Ken Shuttleworth, Make Architects, said: “As a Birmingham native, I’m delighted that Make is able to contribute in such a big way to the emerging Arena Central masterplan. 3 Arena Central, Make’s third office building in the masterplan which we also designed, is at the forefront of placemaking and will be a new destination at the heart of Arena Central.”

Located in the core of Birmingham city centre, Arena Central is bordered by Broad Street, Bridge Street, Holliday Street and Suffolk Street Queensway and is adjacent to Centenary Square, one of Birmingham’s most high-profile public spaces, which is due to undergo a comprehensive £8 million refurbishment.

Just a few minutes’ walk from New Street Station and the Grand Central shopping centre, connectivity at Arena Central will receive a further boost from the extension to the Midlands Metro tram, which will include a stop on Broad Street, adjacent to the site.

Arena Central benefits from simplified planning and reduced business rates and forms a significant part of the city’s vision for regeneration.




http://arena-central.com/2016/09/pla...arena-central/
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Old September 22nd, 2016, 05:52 PM   #138
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Really don't know what to make of it. In the above renders it looks like it's been clad in a beaded curtain.
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Old September 22nd, 2016, 06:21 PM   #139
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It's better but still not good
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Old September 22nd, 2016, 06:27 PM   #140
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Meh. Awful cladding. The architect needs to let go of the idea if he doesn't have the ability to make it work.
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