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View Poll Results: How will you vote on June 23?
Leave 30 27.78%
Leave but unlikely to vote 0 0%
Stay 68 62.96%
Stay but unlikely to vote 6 5.56%
Undecided but will vote 3 2.78%
Undecided and unlikely to vote 1 0.93%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 10th, 2016, 10:13 AM   #1
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The Brexit Thread | Leaving the EU and its implications for London

Probably means most for London for better or for worse should we leave / stay.
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Old May 11th, 2016, 09:58 PM   #2
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Remain. But I think the eurozone was a terrible idea for everyone apart from Germany and the Benelux countries. I don't think the eurozone crisis can be resolved without either (1) much closer fiscal integration (which is now politically impossible), or (2) abandoning the Euro, or (3) splitting the Euro in 2 currencies (southern and northern).
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Old May 12th, 2016, 12:45 AM   #3
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Remain.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 12:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite Jest View Post
Remain. But I think the eurozone was a terrible idea for everyone apart from Germany and the Benelux countries. I don't think the eurozone crisis can be resolved without either (1) much closer fiscal integration (which is now politically impossible), or (2) abandoning the Euro, or (3) splitting the Euro in 2 currencies (southern and northern).
The European Union are intent on developing a fiscal union. It is the only way forward. I'm sure the forces that be will try to find a way to push through the necessary changes surreptitiously.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 07:43 AM   #5
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The EU has become ever more authoritarian and the fact that David Cameron had to beg the EU to allow him to make minor changes to UK welfare and immigration policy (much of which the EU refused to grant) proves the UK can not be a true democracy whilst a member of the EU.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 08:51 AM   #6
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I'm voting to Leave.

I like the idea of 'some kind of EU' but in the current form its too big and out of hand.
I wish the EU well - but its time for us to get out.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 09:04 AM   #7
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The EU isn't perfect but it is democratic , we are better placed within the EU when we can influence policy and decision making than being outside and looking in.

Besides i don't trust this current government with issues regarding the environment and civil liberties , if we were to leave.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 09:30 AM   #8
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It's an out for me. The main reason being the lack of democratic accountability of the European Commission and the underlining principle of ever closer union which I can't agree with.

Love Europe, hate the EU!
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Old May 12th, 2016, 09:11 PM   #9
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EU reform in the form that most in Britain would favour is impossible. At best we have the ability to veto further treaty change, but ultimately the UK and the EU are pulling in different directions. It makes sense for us to part ways now, and with luck we can start a chain of events that will lead to the collapse of the EU and the creation of something more sensible in it's place.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 12:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Cladding View Post
Besides i don't trust this current government with issues regarding the environment and civil liberties , if we were to leave.
If the EU never existed then people like yourself would not give up on the environment or civil liberties, they/you would instead direct your energies towards winning a democractic mandate for them. As it is we have the EU pushing forward the agenda without the democractic mandate, which brings good causes into disrepute.

Accountability is a good thing so is democracy. Bemoaning that the public is too stupid to vote for the right government/policies so let's avoid democracy is however dangerous.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 09:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whittonstall View Post
It's an out for me. The main reason being the lack of democratic accountability of the European Commission and the underlining principle of ever closer union which I can't agree with.

Love Europe, hate the EU!
The EU is more democratically accountable than the UK government.

Ever closer union is just a trite slogan like 'the special relationship'. It doesn't mean anything and isn't worth jeopardising our economy over.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 09:37 AM   #12
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For you Londonese,

Scenario A:

New Labour are elected and they enact policy X.

Electorate has mixed feelings about policy X and eventually the public mood is for policy X to be repealed.

The Conservatives promise to repeal policy X if they win power.

The Conservatives win and policy X is repealed.

Scenario B:

New Labour are elected and they sign the UK up to policy X. All 28 EU governments also agree and policy X becomes law.

The EU and the UK electorate has mixed feelings about policy X and eventually the public mood across the EU is for policy X to be repealed.

But for a minority of countries policy X works well so not all 28 EU governments are able to agree to the repeal of policy X.

Policy X stays.

So we see the EU can be a very poor system of democracy, which is capable of undermining the democratic will of the electorate.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 10:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Londonese View Post
The EU is more democratically accountable than the UK government.

Ever closer union is just a trite slogan like 'the special relationship'. It doesn't mean anything and isn't worth jeopardising our economy over.
1. Have a closer look at the power that the EU Commission holds and then look at how the 28 members are selected. Then consider whether or not it's democratic.
2. "Ever closer union" is almost the exact opposite of a trite slogan. It is the central driving principal of the EU. Every treaty since the mid 80's has been delivering on that. A Federal Europe is the stated end goal.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 04:50 PM   #14
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Not entirely buried. One can see some rather nice steel caps. Something might well be underway before the century is out. JC Morgan might even leave the United Kingdom for Europe.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 04:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Not entirely buried. One can see some rather nice steel caps. Something might well be underway before the century is out. JC Morgan might even leave the United Kingdom for Europe.
As far as i am aware, the UK is in Europe and has no physical way of leaving regardless of the referendum on it's EU membership.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 06:41 PM   #16
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As far as i am aware, the UK is in Europe and has no physical way of leaving regardless of the referendum on it's EU membership.
Don't the Monster Raving Loony Party have it in their manifesto that they'll move the UK to the Caribbean? They've got as much at winning as Jezza's Labour at present.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 07:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
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As far as i am aware, the UK is in Europe and has no physical way of leaving regardless of the referendum on it's EU membership.
True, but if we leave all the banks will have to move to an EU country to continue to do business in Europe so get used to mass unemployment and abandoned sites if we do.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 08:13 PM   #18
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True, but if we leave all the banks will have to move to an EU country to continue to do business in Europe so get used to mass unemployment and abandoned sites if we do.
Thats not true. The word on the ground is most banks will only move what they need to in to europe. 'Only' about 30% of the cities trade is euro area related.
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Old May 17th, 2016, 10:02 PM   #19
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Thats not true. The word on the ground is most banks will only move what they need to in to europe. 'Only' about 30% of the cities trade is euro area related.
I think you mean the EU as they are already in Europe hun
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Old May 17th, 2016, 11:02 PM   #20
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Some amount of guff written here about banks moving. The same guff that was written when Britain declined to join the euro. I believe Frankfurt was to eclipse London utterly...

European banking (and indeed much of the world outside the US) is dominated by LMA standard documentation and English law, banks have vast capital expenditures in moving, and much of their business doesn't require an EU presence per se, especially as they can then chuck MiFID, AIFMD etc.
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