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Old August 27th, 2018, 11:12 PM   #81
Hasaandoo
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Originally Posted by U475 Foxtrot View Post
You would have thought so but £600m wasn't enough to do New Street Station properly


The need to cover all that brick and the roof too there just need a unique roof where it can be identifiable from the air
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Old August 28th, 2018, 08:48 AM   #82
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The need to cover all that brick and the roof too there just need a unique roof where it can be identifiable from the air


???
Why on earth does a cultural institution need to use its own money to change a view that nobody will see?

This is more of an extension than as aesthetic renovation. Theyíre putting in lobbies, entrances, and toilets, as well as new waiting areas. This isnít just an aesthetic renovation.
After having seen the proposals theyíre working through, donít expect any sort of fantastic aesthetics. Itís pretty cool, itís alright.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 09:15 AM   #83
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???
Why on earth does a cultural institution need to use its own money to change a view that nobody will see?

This is more of an extension than as aesthetic renovation. Theyíre putting in lobbies, entrances, and toilets, as well as new waiting areas. This isnít just an aesthetic renovation.
After having seen the proposals theyíre working through, donít expect any sort of fantastic aesthetics. Itís pretty cool, itís alright.


It would be great if they did both opposed in just doing a aesthetics. Look how more appealing the NEC look with a little touch of aesthetic. With where it positions and the building it going to have around the ICC it should move on with the times as look just as well from the outside then in too. It would look as the odd one out.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 10:22 AM   #84
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It would be great if they did both opposed in just doing a aesthetics. Look how more appealing the NEC look with a little touch of aesthetic. With where it positions and the building it going to have around the ICC it should move on with the times as look just as well from the outside then in too. It would look as the odd one out.
Buildings don't move on with the times, they are a reflection of the time in which they are built. When they move on with the times they usually get demolished and replaced.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 10:39 AM   #85
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I really love the triangular glass on the frontage of the ICC. It is a product of its time, however.
The Council House hasn't moved on with the times and we love that.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 01:04 PM   #86
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Buildings don't move on with the times, they are a reflection of the time in which they are built. When they move on with the times they usually get demolished and replaced.


Well it would hurt for them to clean the wall of the building wouldnít it know? Plus it not about moving other times it about adapting with times
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Old August 28th, 2018, 02:05 PM   #87
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Well it would hurt for them to clean the wall of the building wouldn’t it know? Plus it not about moving other times it about adapting with times
I think you mean that it wouldn't hurt for them to clean the building... which i agree, but a clean isn't the same as a re-design. The latter is what you were previously advocating.

I don't think adapting is any different to moving with the times in terms of design. Most buildings that have re-clads do not change the fundamental design elements in any drastic way. They just update the materials in general and in some cases improve the aesthetic. There are, of course, some exceptions to this which actually improve design.

In the case of this building, I think it still performs its purpose, as it was designed and the improvements that will be made to the ICC and Symphony Hall in the near future will enable it to perform that purpose for another 10, 15 and maybe 30 years. That is true adaption to the times.

Could the outside be updated so it was more "modern" probably but then so could the Town Hall, all of the UoB campus, Council House etc.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 03:51 PM   #88
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I think you mean that it wouldn't hurt for them to clean the building... which i agree, but a clean isn't the same as a re-design. The latter is what you were previously advocating.

I don't think adapting is any different to moving with the times in terms of design. Most buildings that have re-clads do not change the fundamental design elements in any drastic way. They just update the materials in general and in some cases improve the aesthetic. There are, of course, some exceptions to this which actually improve design.

In the case of this building, I think it still performs its purpose, as it was designed and the improvements that will be made to the ICC and Symphony Hall in the near future will enable it to perform that purpose for another 10, 15 and maybe 30 years. That is true adaption to the times.

Could the outside be updated so it was more "modern" probably but then so could the Town Hall, all of the UoB campus, Council House etc.


You canít compare the symphony hall to the likes of town hall or UoB both of those venues where done before our parents where born and even before there parents where born. The glass look fantastic. However, the grey around the glass is not appealing to the eye. If they could touch up the exterior to make it look eye catching besides the glass it wouldnít faces even more. I didnít say it couldnít I just think that the outside should adapt to the times the inside is perfectly fine.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 05:48 PM   #89
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A lot of UoB was built in the 20s, to be fair, so I wouldn't be shocked if there were a fair few people alive who saw it being built.
But that's largely irrelevant.
The Symphony Hall/ICC isn't particularly old, that doesn't make it a worse or better building than the Town Hall. There's plenty of really shitty old buildings knocking around, and they are comparable.
Your point seems to stem from worth and value being derived from age. But if we didn't change symphony hall for 100 years, it would be just as old as UoB.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 05:52 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasaandoo View Post
The need to cover all that brick and the roof too there just need a unique roof where it can be identifiable from the air
Sorry, not sure if you're referring to New Street or Symphony Hall?! but either way the cladding on New street is a half effort. When viewed from anything above street level you can see the supporting structure and concrete facade. This is painfully obvious from an elevated position like Pinfold Street or from any tall building nearby and before you consider the unfinished walkway.

There was talk a few years ago about a green roof on the ICC and Symphony Hall but I guess that was all it was. In the grand scheme of things they're not expensive but they do need maintaining which I assume given the lack of maintenance at the library would put it way down the list of priorities.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 08:58 PM   #91
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You can’t compare the symphony hall to the likes of town hall or UoB both of those venues where done before our parents where born and even before there parents where born. The glass look fantastic. However, the grey around the glass is not appealing to the eye. If they could touch up the exterior to make it look eye catching besides the glass it wouldn’t faces even more. I didn’t say it couldn’t I just think that the outside should adapt to the times the inside is perfectly fine.
I was comparing buildings that are old but have not been updated.

As Bham said, if Symphony Hall was 100 years old it would be directly comparable to the Town Hall or UoB (two building which have not changed save for the green heart I suppose). Your point was that buildings should move or adapt with the times. Where as I said they are a reflection on the times the same way UoB or the Town Hall are... should they move with the times because they are old? You can have the Hyatt for a more recent building, built slightly after Symphony Hall if you like. A building that similarly hasn’t changed.

But basically you have two differing and confused points of view about the same issue unfortunately. On one hand you are saying are saying, older buildings are better, by virtue of their age but of course, not age alone and on the other hand, and what seems to be the current fashion these days... if it’s not glass and it’s trash and should be replaced by something made of glass.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 09:48 PM   #92
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I was comparing buildings that are old but have not been updated.

As Bham said, if Symphony Hall was 100 years old it would be directly comparable to the Town Hall or UoB (two building which have not changed save for the green heart I suppose). Your point was that buildings should move or adapt with the times. Where as I said they are a reflection on the times the same way UoB or the Town Hall are... should they move with the times because they are old? You can have the Hyatt for a more recent building, built slightly after Symphony Hall if you like. A building that similarly hasnít changed.

But basically you have two differing and confused points of view about the same issue unfortunately. On one hand you are saying are saying, older buildings are better, by virtue of their age (but of course not age alone as Iím sure youíll proceed to tell me) and on the other hand, and what seems to be the current fashion these days... if itís not glass and itís trash and should be replaced by something made of glass.


First let me say do you think the way UoB and town hall the architecture is comparable with symphony hall? These building you on about where very well designed as stunning to the eye. But the thing is it isnít this isnít a if it were Iím saying in it current state the symphony hall isnít eye catching compared with the building around it. The grey wall make it look bleak compared to the inside, the glass is amazing. Iím not saying if it not glass it trash Iím saying grey bleak was make stuff look down. UoB and the town hall are in the league in there own they donít need to be changed. So you might as well leave all the building in brum that are from
The 80ís
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Old August 28th, 2018, 10:59 PM   #93
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Most of the UOB buildings are falling apart and pretty poor in their construction.
They just look pretty.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 11:27 PM   #94
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First let me say do you think the way UoB and town hall the architecture is comparable with symphony hall? These building you on about where very well designed as stunning to the eye. But the thing is it isnít this isnít a if it were Iím saying in it current state the symphony hall isnít eye catching compared with the building around it. The grey wall make it look bleak compared to the inside, the glass is amazing. Iím not saying if it not glass it trash Iím saying grey bleak was make stuff look down. UoB and the town hall are in the league in there own they donít need to be changed. So you might as well leave all the building in brum that are from
The 80ís
So what exactly is your issue? You started by saying buildings should adapt their aesthetic to the changing times. Now you are saying that the buildings were not designed well enough to be built?

Iím not comparing the architectural styles of the buildings. But you seem to be suggesting that you should change the architectural style when a building is old.

Iím sure some would disagree with your assertion that Symphony Hall isnít a good, if not stunning example of a 90ís premiere classical concert hall.
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Old August 29th, 2018, 01:15 AM   #95
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So what exactly is your issue? You started by saying buildings should adapt their aesthetic to the changing times. Now you are saying that the buildings were not designed well enough to be built?



Iím not comparing the architectural styles of the buildings. But you seem to be suggesting that you should change the architectural style when a building is old.



Iím sure some would disagree with your assertion that Symphony Hall isnít a good, if not stunning example of a 90ís premiere classical concert hall.


Grey exterior wall is 90 premier classic concert halls? Iím just say it need a face lift that all to make it eye catching. Your the one mentioning other buildings
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Old August 29th, 2018, 10:19 AM   #96
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It's a product of it's time, but it's also a well designed building of it's time.
Symphony Hall is -and I'm not joking- a world class facility and looks it.

The Birmingham Central Library was an absolutely horrible building of it's time that looked as disgusting when it was built as the day it was pulled down. Some buildings do need to change their aesthetic, yes (See: Quayside Broad Street. Five Ways Tower) and it works. Symphony Hall doesn't IMO.
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Old August 29th, 2018, 10:36 AM   #97
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Synphony Hall, to many people, is THE world class facility. It's acoustics are almost second to none on the entire planet.
Aesthetically, I think that it is quite out of fashion, but it is always going to go out and in of fashion. That's simply how fashion works. We're starting to see a return to brutalist and Le Corbusien ideas in architecture at the moment, when 20 years ago you'd have been slated for even suggesting it.

Just because the aesthetics are a bit outmoded, it doesnt reduce the quality of the building. Council House is massively outmoded, but its quality carries it into the 21st century, and the same is to be said of the Symphony Hall.
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Old August 29th, 2018, 10:38 AM   #98
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Grey exterior wall is 90 premier classic concert halls? Iím just say it need a face lift that all to make it eye catching. Your the one mentioning other buildings
No, that was literally you, and just you. You compared it, entirely indirectly, with three buildings of completely different time periods which are completely different points to eachother.


If anything, in you raising UoB, Town Hall and Council House, you defended DJay's point. Each of these is froom entirely different periods, encapsulating entirely different styles of architecture. Not one of these has been "updated" for aesthetics in the 10, 20, 30, 50, or 100 years after its construction.
Why, applying the logic of your argument which you introduced, does the Symphony Hall require a complete overhaul but 30 odd years of its construction, but Council House/Town Hall didnt?
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Old August 29th, 2018, 12:10 PM   #99
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No, that was literally you, and just you. You compared it, entirely indirectly, with three buildings of completely different time periods which are completely different points to eachother.


If anything, in you raising UoB, Town Hall and Council House, you defended DJay's point. Each of these is froom entirely different periods, encapsulating entirely different styles of architecture. Not one of these has been "updated" for aesthetics in the 10, 20, 30, 50, or 100 years after its construction.
Why, applying the logic of your argument which you introduced, does the Symphony Hall require a complete overhaul but 30 odd years of its construction, but Council House/Town Hall didnt?
To be fair to the lad, i gave the examples of older Victorian buildings but in response to his idea that buildings should, clearly they don't, move on with the times. He did mention the NEC and compare the ICC and Symphony Hall to the "buildings it will be around" as a reason for updating it.

The flaw in Hassandoo's logic is that none of the buildings older than Symphony Hall (like the Council House and Town Hall) have been suggested by him to move with the times but by his logic, those builds have remained entirely in their time externally at least. Even the REP.

From which i read, it is old and unattractive compared to new attractive buildings. I tend to disagree on the attractiveness of the new buildings.

But you are questioning the same logic that was displayed by Hassandoo when i illustrated his logic with the examples.
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Old August 29th, 2018, 12:40 PM   #100
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In fairness the Town Hall has updated it's interior to remain functional, but because the general consensus (and most importantly the grading folk, council, planners, designers and people of influence) think it looks nice, it's exterior has been maintained.

Same as the Council House, BMAG, Uni etc...

Symphony Hall is 'inside out' in comparison. It's function remains perfect, the general consensus is that it's interior is nice. But the exterior is less tasteful to some (and most importantly the grading folk, council, planners, designers and people of influence) hence the face-lift.
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