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Old October 24th, 2017, 03:06 PM   #61
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While the Kerslake review laid bare decades of political and structural dysfunction at the council you can't fault them for everything wrong with the city. They certainly don't help, but it isn't the black and white doom laden scenario you often paint. Council bad etc. New Street being an example, you continually blame BCC for the lack of movement on the bridge and fumes. When your ire would be better directed at the stations owners and managers. I'm no fan of the council BTW. Marketing Birmingham isn't just a marketing agency, I'm assuming you would rather we didnt have an agency promoting the city as an investment location? And to be fair, if they had a remit to boost the profile of the city and promote it in a positive light, they have done an amazing job considering the snobbery and reputational hurdles they had to overcome. Its essy to bitch from the sidelines, personally I always found them helpful and passionate about the city whenever I dealt with them....
The fact they had to have a guy in from Liverpool? try and tell us what we already know, that locals need to be more positive and adopt the northern swagger was really quite condescending and money for old rope IMO. What the people of Brum need is educating on their heritage - Council's job IMO. And more support for the small independents in whatever line of work to help them start up, innovate and stay in the city.. rather than create major headaches for small businesses which is all I hear, from many many areas of people working hard. Provision for small retail units rather than huge Bullring style chains for a start. No one is saying BCC are to blame for everything but there is a great deal more they can do at ground roots level, without great cost. It comes down to lack of imagination. Someone at BCC health and safety dept needs to get the fumes situation sorted because NWR LM Virgin etc really are not going to are they, so someone needs to step in on behalf of the people who use the station and whp work there - it is a serious health risk/hazard being exposed to those levels if Diesel fumes day in day out.

Marketing Bham are NOT responsible for Brum being portrayed in a good light, please show me evidence of this? The positive articles I have seen over the recent years in national and international press have been focused on things like the food scene, this is small scale local independents investing their own money and working their bollocks off to bring up the offering of the city to a wider audience, then small marketing whats on guides helping expose that probably more locally, but most of the coverage outside of the city has been in no way related to Marketing Birmingham unless I am missing sonething and am happy to be proved wrong, I will ecrtainly be interested if you do have info on this.

Marketing Bham have probably done a lot to encourage investment in Birmingham, but again what evidence is there that any huge businesses have reloacted here because of their direct work? I am not saying that hasn't happened but do you have any proof? Wwre they instrumental in talks to bring HSBC here etc? If so great then in that case that is wherethey are succeeding, but then focus on that and let the arts/culture side be funded locally because I have only seen them ask for money from independents then do very little really. Last time I looked they still had events and listings that no longer even existed in the city such as Alfie Birds who had closed for about a year, it's awful in that respect and any funding for the arts etc should not go that direction at all. Better to let others who know what they are doing cover that stuff and MB can then use that as a more vibrant attractive tool for potential large corps and brands to locate. Does that makes sense?

There are enough people locally who slag Brum off still, but they have a negative opinion so I don't doubt they have a tough time selling elsewhere.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 06:26 PM   #62
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Did you read Kerslake? Because if that's your opinion on its conclusions you're either unable to digest the ramifications of the review or you are deliberately being obtuse?

I'm sure marketing Birmingham will tell you all about their success in marketing the city and the impact they have on investment decisions in their annual report. Do you think that joe bloggs kitchen in Digbeth got coverage in New York Times by ringing up or do you think that was a tactic led by the strategic marketing agency for the city region as part of an onging PR excercise targeting overseas publications? I'm interested to know your in-depth knowledge on this subject.

Do you actually know anything about arts funding or are you going on bloke down the pub gripes? I'm interested as again the picture you paint is divorced from reality. I agree re listings websites, theirs is often out of date and this could be handled better and to be fair is in other places.

From experience all small org and traders moan about the big boys getting all the money, regulatory matters and any form of governance they have to deal with. no matter what sector, running a small enterprise is tough...

We live in a stringent health and safety culture. Do you think for one minute that if the fumes were at a dangerous level then a range of stakeholders wouldn't have intervened by now? Train drivers and staff who are heavily unionised for a start?
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Old October 24th, 2017, 07:25 PM   #63
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Did you read Kerslake? Because if that's your opinion on its conclusions you're either unable to digest the ramifications of the review or you are deliberately being obtuse?

I'm sure marketing Birmingham will tell you all about their success in marketing the city and the impact they have on investment decisions in their annual report. Do you think that joe bloggs kitchen in Digbeth got coverage in New York Times by ringing up or do you think that was a tactic led by the strategic marketing agency for the city region as part of an onging PR excercise targeting overseas publications? I'm interested to know your in-depth knowledge on this subject.

Do you actually know anything about arts funding or are you going on bloke down the pub gripes? I'm interested as again the picture you paint is divorced from reality. I agree re listings websites, theirs is often out of date and this could be handled better and to be fair is in other places.

From experience all small org and traders moan about the big boys getting all the money, regulatory matters and any form of governance they have to deal with. no matter what sector, running a small enterprise is tough...

We live in a stringent health and safety culture. Do you think for one minute that if the fumes were at a dangerous level then a range of stakeholders wouldn't have intervened by now? Train drivers and staff who are heavily unionised for a start?
Yes I did read it and came across as mostly stating the obvious from memory, I do definitely remember it pointing out things that many on here had been saying for a while - but in a condescending fashion, really it just needs someone with a brain in charge at the top, now we have a leader of the Council and a West Mids Mayor and still we have bin strikes and local cultural street markets cancelled through health and safety while the dangerously packed German markets roll into town again followed closely by rats and probably terrorists at some point.

Much of what was in the review from memory was stating the obvious, and much of it probably has not been taken on board. Why should Bham City Council even need someone like this intervene? and provide suggestions how to improve. Regardless.. I see progress in construction and a slow progress in some areas of public transport, the rest.. well just look at the embarrassment of the bin strike. Was like something from the 70s. So again, another load of hot air that as far as I can see hasn't really changed anything.

I have seen with my own eyes, I speak to the people on the ground, who own the small businesses locally and I know what they tell me about Marketing Birmingham, and yep I've looked into what they do and also what they don't do. The general and overwhelming consensus is they are useless unless you are a large corporate company persuaded to set up in Brum (again can't even see any direct evidence of MB doing this) and probably from out of town, most likely bringing in your own workers thus going against exactly what the Kerslake article highlighted in one sense.

So you are saying that the coverage of Birmingham in the New York times was a) the work of Marketing Birmingham and b) it has resulted in millions of investment back into the city benefitting Brummies and the Council's coffers, the same sums which BCC have awarded it during its existence.

Yes I do know a great deal about Arts funding. I was once told by a member of BCC how to get around certain pitfalls of being turned down for various grants and without getting into libelous stuff here, lets just say I was shocked at some of what this person was advising me to do. Happy to discuss in private.

Quote:
From experience all small org and traders moan about the big boys getting all the money, regulatory matters and any form of governance they have to deal with. no matter what sector, running a small enterprise is tough...
That sounds exactly the kind of rhetoric that people tell me about when dealing with BCC. Do you work for BCC per chance?

Quote:
We live in a stringent health and safety culture. Do you think for one minute that if the fumes were at a dangerous level then a range of stakeholders wouldn't have intervened by now? Train drivers and staff who are heavily unionised for a start?
You obviously don't have any experience of the present situation. Why do you think there is an ongoing investigation by the University of Bham, at least one documentary on it already and many complaints from passengers. I suggest you look into it and educate yourself, then educate yourself on the risks of cancer from long term exposure to Diesel fumes.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/what...erous-10928734

Nothing has changed since this report and it continues to be a dangerous environment to hang around in for any amount of time.

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Old October 24th, 2017, 07:38 PM   #64
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I am sure we are both wanting the best for this city but BCC, from my experiences and those of many others are just useless in so many ways and a single report by someone stating the obvious is unlikely to make a difference, orgs like Marketing Bham are just syphoning off money that could go to more creative areas from my experience and no matter what you say, I have a firm educated view on that as opposed to your view asking me to wait for reports etc. I don't need to, a report can be manipulated, I go by what I see and experience first hand.

And as for Andy Street why isn't he asking the questions of why escalators are now permanently out of action in one of the busiest platforms in a new New Street, and we are talking for weeks and weeks and even from weeks and weeks before when it first opened? He probably doesn't want to upset anyone, so what's his role? We need a few people with passion and big balls to stamp on shit like this because I see and hear the visitors to Brum so often getting pissed off and it annoys me because we should be making Brum a welcoming, vibrant and culturally rich city to visit and live in - compared to Bristol, London and Manchester we have a long way to go, but what annoys me most, is that is not down to the Brummies, it is down to the lack of help and encouragement from BCC.. I walk past that revolting wall every week by Hill Street which hide the half finished New Street bridge, and I think if that was Bristol we would have commissioned some of the city's best graffiti artists to brighten it up, or it wouldnt be there at all, it would be a glass wall opening up the view of the shiny new station with a completed bridge, I've spoken to a couple of senior BCC people who have actually admitted they can't wait to leave the city centre and don't hang around, I've spoken to BBC Bham presenters who hate the accent and rarely venture into the city centre as they think it's shit. I've had to help old people up the stationary escalators in complete embarrassment of the inability in this city to do things correctly and whilst you probably won't find a more passionate Brummie, I also live in the real world and see the problems which exist, and which are easy to fix but which could make a huge diff to public perception. Things have improved greatly, but in some ways we've gone backwards and identity is part of that. A local historian, you know who I mean, a professor once told me "the problem with the Council is they just don't care about our heritage" and I'll leave it at that.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 09:13 PM   #65
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I don't particularly want to get involved in this but really, i hate when people talk without facts. So lets have some facts in here rather than opinions.

Marketing Birmingham and some the things they were involved in during 2016:
  • Five UK-based businesses and 26 foreign investments - 31 successful
    projects. These accounted for a total of 4,219 jobs in the Greater Midlands area.
  • Their involvement in MIPIM in 2016 generated a 250% increase in media coverage compared to previous years. 123 articles were produced with a reach of 458 million people in MIPIM week.
  • A 16% increase in tourists since 2010. Not all directly attributed to Marketing Birmingham themselves of course. Things like new flight routes would have contributed.
  • Helped secured 56 new international and national events during 2016 – an increase of 133% from 2015 and a combined economic impact of over £35 million.
  • Led the co-ordination of a regional tourism initiative, aimed at capitalising on the opportunity of Shakespeare’s 400th anniversary. You may remember the BBC coverage of this that Marketing Birmingham had a significant hand in.
  • Deliver both online and offline marketing, events and communications contracts for the Midlands Engine, Greater Birmingham and Solihull LEP, GBSLEP Growth Hub, Birmingham City Council, central government, Department for International Trade (DIT).
  • They continue to develop the regional branding strategy with the Combined Authority.
  • Their Relocation Services team has successfully delivered bespoke web portals for both HSBC and HS2.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 10:00 PM   #66
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The above. I know a lot about arts funding and grant funding in general. I also know a lot about governance hence my questions.

I'm well aware of the issues at BCC having come across them in my professional life many times across departments. there is much good there too TBF.

I think marketing Birmingham does a lot and criticisms of it are unfair, they can't be all things too all people but the work they do inevitably supports smaller business by osmosis.

As for Kerslake, it was the most important thing to happen to the council in generation and its being taken very seriously. The impacts won't be felt for years to come but will be tangible in the future. Changing the embedded culture of both local politicians and the council won't happen overnight.

As for New Street, I just can't believe that Network Rail and the TOCS would be allowing a station to operate dangerously and potentially illegally. The reputational damage to them and potential for claims would be catastrophic....

And yes I agree the coucil have an appalling record on heritage preservation, especially of its own estate.

One thing though, why do you think everyone working in the city or for the city gives a shit about it. For some it's simply a career, in which they may take enormous pride i.e a social worker, but may not think twice about the built environment they work in. I agree that's not great but that is the real world. A culture of pride in the city should rum through BCC as a core value, I doubt it does from my experience. Maybe something else for them to work on
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Old October 25th, 2017, 12:59 AM   #67
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I still cant decide if I like this development... is it bold or just ugly? height is about right but the scale and width of the tower is so unsympathetic
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Old October 25th, 2017, 03:20 AM   #68
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I don't particularly want to get involved in this but really, i hate when people talk without facts. So lets have some facts in here rather than opinions.

Marketing Birmingham and some the things they were involved in during 2016:
  • Five UK-based businesses and 26 foreign investments - 31 successful
    projects. These accounted for a total of 4,219 jobs in the Greater Midlands area.
  • Their involvement in MIPIM in 2016 generated a 250% increase in media coverage compared to previous years. 123 articles were produced with a reach of 458 million people in MIPIM week.
  • A 16% increase in tourists since 2010. Not all directly attributed to Marketing Birmingham themselves of course. Things like new flight routes would have contributed.
  • Helped secured 56 new international and national events during 2016 – an increase of 133% from 2015 and a combined economic impact of over £35 million.
  • Led the co-ordination of a regional tourism initiative, aimed at capitalising on the opportunity of Shakespeare’s 400th anniversary. You may remember the BBC coverage of this that Marketing Birmingham had a significant hand in.
  • Deliver both online and offline marketing, events and communications contracts for the Midlands Engine, Greater Birmingham and Solihull LEP, GBSLEP Growth Hub, Birmingham City Council, central government, Department for International Trade (DIT).
  • They continue to develop the regional branding strategy with the Combined Authority.
  • Their Relocation Services team has successfully delivered bespoke web portals for both HSBC and HS2.
Lol "Facts" I am sorry but what a load of crap. The things highlighted show just how non-tangible and wishy washy this organisation is and at a severe cost to what actually will make this city something which can give it a solid foundation against whatever else happens in the world.. it is diverting money away from identity through a massive void of funding of local and unique people from whatever background. It seems to be great at buzz words though eh! As stated I see what happens on the ground, I would argue that huge companies relocating to Brum are far more to do with things like HS2 and a desire to relocate out of an ever expensive London. Not sold sorry.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 03:31 AM   #69
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The above. I know a lot about arts funding and grant funding in general. I also know a lot about governance hence my questions.

I'm well aware of the issues at BCC having come across them in my professional life many times across departments. there is much good there too TBF.

I think marketing Birmingham does a lot and criticisms of it are unfair, they can't be all things too all people but the work they do inevitably supports smaller business by osmosis.

As for Kerslake, it was the most important thing to happen to the council in generation and its being taken very seriously. The impacts won't be felt for years to come but will be tangible in the future. Changing the embedded culture of both local politicians and the council won't happen overnight.
More wishy washy nonsensical stuff lol, MAYBE once someone in London or New York said "hey Birmingham looks ok doesn't it" and millions of pounds of investment were worth it, it is to me the equivalent of paying a shite company with no clue or care about Birmingham to sell it to people who don't really care. Surely the money would have travelled a lot further and for longer had it been invested into ground roots Culture. hey, what about Handsworth? A place that a certain BCC leader once told me was not really worth investing in right now.

As for your second point I've highlighted.. yes, it really looks like it with recent events such as the bin strikes and ignoring the city's heritage, what utter bollocks that whole report was, did this guy get paid if so how much because I, or a hundred others probably on this forum alone could have come to those conclusions and still have ahd as much affect on the future of this city, in fact, probably more as at least it would have been through passion to make a difference rather than as a pay packet incentive.

More money wasted. If he received no payment or expenses for that then I stand corrected.

99% of Birmingham's population want better transport and a tram network that even half resembles that of 100 years ago.. BCC - "no silly idea" Some Scouse bloke comes along - "we need better public transport to make this city a world player" BCC - "AMAZING.. how could we not have known this before" I'm not saying even the public transport was mentioned in the review from memory but you get my point. If the City Council can't even have confidence in the good people of this city by actually asking THEM what they think or want then what hope do we have of being a city moving forward as one. And yes I read and contributed to the Big City thing which was ok, but again, really.. sigh.. it is all just common sense taken for granted elsewhere and I almost find it cringeworthy tbh. It ain't f rocket sciene.. make a city nice for people to live in, make it welconing, make it work well, the rest will happen organically.

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Old October 25th, 2017, 03:38 AM   #70
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I know how the arts work, I know how pr/marketing works, I know what makes money and who makes money, and I know that this city's creative and cultural assets and heritage have been (there's a word I don't want to use) damaged over many years and it really needs to stop, BCC need to actually stop investing in PR/Marketing wankers and actually start placing its faith in the LOCAL people who have the ideas and REAL intelligence and unrelenting passion with regards to what will make this city shine.. no amount of Marketing Birminghams or HSBCs will do that. And I am simply reiterating what many others say on a regular basis but who obviously do not have time to post on the internet. Until this time, this city will always play second fiddle to Machester, Bristol, London, Leeds etc and will just change from Shoppingham to Officeham.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 07:57 AM   #71
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree......anyway loving the black student towers
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Old October 25th, 2017, 08:46 AM   #72
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Quote:
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BCC need to actually stop investing in PR/Marketing wankers and actually start placing its faith in the LOCAL people who have the ideas and REAL intelligence and unrelenting passion with regards to what will make this city shine.. no amount of Marketing Birminghams or HSBCs will do that. And I am simply reiterating what many others say on a regular basis but who obviously do not have time to post on the internet. Until this time, this city will always play second fiddle to Machester, Bristol, London, Leeds etc and will just change from Shoppingham to Officeham.
You do realise that all of these cities have a Marketing Birmingham type organisation right?

Also your idea of marketing is not something that i recognise having studied it at uni and worked in the industry for a short time.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 08:46 AM   #73
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I know how the arts work, I know how pr/marketing works, I know what makes money and who makes money
Your other comments clearly contradict these assertions.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 08:57 AM   #74
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I think you also misunderstand the council's ability to implement change here.

Even cities in Federal countries don't have the power you're suggesting Birmingham has.

We're centralized. The money comes from that centre. It transpires that that centre isn't giving much out.

Marketing organizations are an utter lifeline to BCC. I can assure you with almost certainty, if BCC attempted to implement a self funded similar program it would cost a damn sight more than the private funding attracted.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 11:58 AM   #75
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You do realise that all of these cities have a Marketing Birmingham type organisation right?

Also your idea of marketing is not something that i recognise having studied it at uni and worked in the industry for a short time.
I remember emailing MB and MM to see what was going on over a specific weekend.Manchester replied with a comprehensive guide within the hour.. Birmingham took several days to reply and it was piss poor effort.

Bully for you for studying it at Uni, gold star awarded I'm sure you learned a great deal. Pr and marketing is subsidiary to having a thriving and fully supported arts and culture scene.. otherwise you're marketing a city full of chain stores and commercial restaurants and compared to most other large cities Brum lacks immensely in this field.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 12:02 PM   #76
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I think you also misunderstand the council's ability to implement change here.

Even cities in Federal countries don't have the power you're suggesting Birmingham has.

We're centralized. The money comes from that centre. It transpires that that centre isn't giving much out.

Marketing organizations are an utter lifeline to BCC. I can assure you with almost certainty, if BCC attempted to implement a self funded similar program it would cost a damn sight more than the private funding attracted.
As stated we'll have to agree to disagree. As I said I have seen first hand what is done for the money and I stand by my assertions. The Council waste vast amounts which could and should be directed into building a stronger identity for Brummies and then marketing and pr will be a hell of a lot easier. End of. We all want the best for Brum obviously and great things are happening in buildings etc, but there are massive areas of negligence which need addressing.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 02:18 PM   #77
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Pr and marketing is subsidiary to having a thriving and fully supported arts and culture scene...
Not at all. Marketing can be either a philosophy or a function and exists to push your product.

As part of this you would do your research and segment, create a package to push. This package doesn't have to be culture and art. You can make a conscious decision not to push culture if you would be beaten by someone else with a stronger offer who is trying to attract the same segment of the market.

A lack of promotion of culture doesn't automatically mean you fail at marketing. This is what you seem to suggest.

PR is entirely different and to my eyes, this is something that Marketing Birmingham seem to be very good at in comparison.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 02:28 PM   #78
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Not at all. Marketing can be either a philosophy or a function and exists to push your product.

As part of this you would do your research and segment, create a package to push. This package doesn't have to be culture and art. You can make a conscious decision not to push culture if you would be beaten by someone else with a stronger offer who is trying to attract the same segment of the market.

A lack of promotion of culture doesn't automatically mean you fail at marketing. This is what you seem to suggest.

PR is entirely different and to my eyes, this is something that Marketing Birmingham seem to be very good at in comparison.
Let's move on from this please.
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Old November 2nd, 2017, 09:40 AM   #79
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http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westm...ingham-gateway

More updates, although nothing we don't already know. Although it is interesting to note that this scheme has gone through a number of revisions before final submission, including :-

QUOTE
Quote:
The overall massing of the scheme has also been significantly reduced, while the central core of the building has been reduced to accentuate the tower’s height.

The two towers which comprise each wing of the development are to be clad in different materials to help break up the massing and be more sympathetic to its surroundings.
Am still not sure I have a lot of love for this block, but perhaps it will grow on me should it get approved.
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Old November 6th, 2017, 11:11 AM   #80
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http://www.constructionenquirer.com/...student-tower/
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