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Old May 15th, 2015, 09:50 PM   #6841
sponcer_cv
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Again, Mista, That was not how you put it th first time.

You said: Education is not that important . . .
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Old May 15th, 2015, 10:49 PM   #6842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponcer_cv View Post
Again, Mista, That was not how you put it th first time.

You said: Education is not that important . . .

I have never said that..
I have always said that education is less important then economic reforms. Economic reforms are the foundation of an economy. Every economy starts with a good economic policy and then followed by education and infrastructure..
I am not stupide to claim that education is not that important. You need first to develop a economy, private sector and then educate the people the private sector etc needs.
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Old May 15th, 2015, 11:40 PM   #6843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister79 View Post
That is not true. Businesses in Zambia have still diffuculties to obtain credit..
Zambia only started in the nineties with liberalization. Still 40% of the jobs are linked to state companies.
Zambia still has a lot of work to do..




You should compare Ukraine to Poland. Poland was also once a communist country, but started major economic reforms begin nineties and is now far more developed then Ukraine.
Poland has far more economic freedom then Ukraine..
1 Poland started some reforms in early 1980s. with small businesses
2. Poland had careful reforms and by 19902, Western FDI started pouring in, granted fast access to EU market.
3. Good education already.
4. Did not have Mafia takeover of the industries.
5.


Like i said..

1. Post Ukraine leadership under Kruchma kept most Soviet Era policies.
2. Then after Kruchma in 2004, the political crisis started with the 2 corrupt pro Western lleaders Tymoshenko and Yushchenko. to the Ukraine we know now.


Poland started it reforms in the 1980s and never got to deal with super corrupt leaders and political mess.


Do you see the differences?
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Old May 15th, 2015, 11:49 PM   #6844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister79 View Post
I have never said that..
I have always said that education is less important then economic reforms. Economic reforms are the foundation of an economy. Every economy starts with a good economic policy and then followed by education and infrastructure..
I am not stupide to claim that education is not that important. You need first to develop a economy, private sector and then educate the people the private sector etc needs.
Come on guys, just stop it already! He's been misquoted and falsely accused time and again and, it's getting both annoying and tedious.

I'm an avid observer of these debates and the above highlight is what he's always said.
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Old May 15th, 2015, 11:57 PM   #6845
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Now back to Africa,

There are countries that have made and making good progress, some on business side, some on Infrastructural side. But Electricity remains the biggest problem and failure.Many countries have been doing reforms sonce the 1990s and we still don't see any impressive progress.. while some started late and doing relatively better than those who started earlier.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 12:12 AM   #6846
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Popa, do you regret going to college?

@ Mister; How many compaanies do you that are managed by Secondary school managers and supervisors?

Last edited by BUTEMBO21; May 16th, 2015 at 04:50 AM. Reason: Popa , do you regret
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Old May 16th, 2015, 07:59 AM   #6847
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More stats from the 2015 Human Capital Report:

Tertiary-educated population: People of all ages living in the country who have completed tertiary education, classified according to the International Standard Classification of Education (ISCED-97).

Nigeria 11.3m
Egypt 6.7m
South Africa 3.9m
Kenya 2.5m
Morocco 2.2m
Algeria 1.7m
Ethiopia 1.2m
Ghana 1.1m
Uganda 932,000
Cameroon 751,000
Madagascar 700,000
Cote d'Ivoire 699,000
Tunisia 618,000
Zambia 501,000
Tanzania 478,000


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Old May 16th, 2015, 02:14 PM   #6848
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Yup. Saudi is a prime example- useless country- university educated people doing nothing. My Dad studied with many of them in Scotland when he did his PhD- they all went back home and got comfortable yet useless government jobs.

Eastern Europe has a big problem with overqualified workers too- they have a large % of their population with degrees but the economy cant absorb them all.

This list only talks of those who are "inactive" but doesnt talk of those who are "active" in jobs that you dont require a degree for- the results would be much worse.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 02:16 PM   #6849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUTEMBO21 View Post
Literate= someone who is able to write and understand basic instructions.
Educated= Someone who is a High School/Secondary graduate and College graduates....That is how i understand those wards.


Now if Accra has 2 million. the Adult population will not be 1 million. adukts will be 350K people.

Out of that, you are going to count only Secondary and College Graduates. which IMO will bring the number down to 200K.....20% with formal work...leaves out 140K in INFORMALL Employment.

Why are you leaving out informall employment when the economy itself is 70% Informal?

Are you suggesting that people should not have ambitions to further in in higher education?


Lets take Hotel industry. South Africa, Morocco, Kenya, Tunisia, Egypt. Turkey. etc are Tourist giants.

So many otels get built each year.

Do you know the education requirement?

Im sorry but you are not going to run a Hotel with Secondary graduates as Supervisors, Mangers. LOL
My point is simple. If you have 100 literate people- and the Accra economy can only employ 20 of them- then how will having 100 literate people change anything?

But yes- I agree that literacy is a basic "right" everyone should have. But i totally disagree with the university educated people. If there is one thing lacking in Africa- its skilled manual labourers.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 02:23 PM   #6850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUTEMBO21 View Post
Literate= someone who is able to write and understand basic instructions.
Educated= Someone who is a High School/Secondary graduate and College graduates....That is how i understand those wards.


Now if Accra has 2 million. the Adult population will not be 1 million. adukts will be 350K people.

Out of that, you are going to count only Secondary and College Graduates. which IMO will bring the number down to 200K.....20% with formal work...leaves out 140K in INFORMALL Employment.

Why are you leaving out informall employment when the economy itself is 70% Informal?

Are you suggesting that people should not have ambitions to further in in higher education?


Lets take Hotel industry. South Africa, Morocco, Kenya, Tunisia, Egypt. Turkey. etc are Tourist giants.

So many otels get built each year.

Do you know the education requirement?

Im sorry but you are not going to run a Hotel with Secondary graduates as Supervisors, Mangers. LOL
Why not? My mate runs a bar and 4-star hotel in central London- never been to university- left high school at 16 in fact. Practical experience is more important- this particular friend was working in his Dads pub since he was a kid then worked his way up starting washing dishes.

Bear in mind that these were jobs that not so long ago you didnt need a degree for- then when we all [stupidly] became obsessed with degrees we made up "hospitality management degrees" so people could have this piece of paper in their hand.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 02:58 PM   #6851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popa1980 View Post
Yup. Saudi is a prime example- useless country- university educated people doing nothing. My Dad studied with many of them in Scotland when he did his PhD- they all went back home and got comfortable yet useless government jobs.

Eastern Europe has a big problem with overqualified workers too- they have a large % of their population with degrees but the economy cant absorb them all.

This list only talks of those who are "inactive" but doesnt talk of those who are "active" in jobs that you dont require a degree for- the results would be much worse.
Why Saudi Arabia of all countries? Why not Israel or Spain or South Korea?

You think those Saudis would be comfy and useless if if they were not a an Ocean of black Gold? i do not think so.


Eastern Europeans during their Communist era were on a mission, a mission to catch up with the West in every aspecct of economic and technological sector....The failures was the type of economic policies they followed were not sustainable.

You'll never get into the Tech world with Secondary school ......Its the Universities that do Reseearch work.


You say you regret going to University, but you'd never get the chance to travel if you stoped at high school...there is no medical school in Secondary school.


All a country needs is a 35% of population with University education....and the more developed a country gets, the more people tend to attend University because of stiff competition.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 03:31 PM   #6852
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Actually Japan's economic success was/is notable due to its high level of average education for production line workers. Apart from the University of Tokyo, Kyoto etc. Japanese universities are actually pretty bad by developed world standards. The remarkable thing is the incredibly good quality of primary and secondary school education with no "tail" of left behind disenfranchised workers like you get in US/Western Europe and to an extreme degree in South Africa. The average high school graduate in east Asia is competent in maths and science - this is really where the focus needs to be, not on the elite students graduating from top universities who will succeed regardless of government intervention.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 03:39 PM   #6853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popa1980 View Post
Why not? My mate runs a bar and 4-star hotel in central London- never been to university- left high school at 16 in fact. Practical experience is more important- this particular friend was working in his Dads pub since he was a kid then worked his way up starting washing dishes.

Bear in mind that these were jobs that not so long ago you didnt need a degree for- then when we all [stupidly] became obsessed with degrees we made up "hospitality management degrees" so people could have this piece of paper in their hand.
A Bar? that is not a big deal. You just need a Sertificate from a F&B DEPARTMENT..

A 4 Star Hotel? Is he the General Manager of that Hotel or what?


GM is the high position in a Hotel...th furthest you can get is Supervisor with a High School diploma. and this is a rare cae..You are still required to get classes at a Junior college.


It does not take so much to see the differences between regions of a single country which in the case of US. The differences between the West , North East and the South. its a world apart. if the South of US were to be independent, it would not be a developed country. obviously because of it low education.

Nigeria's disparity between North and South. Education is a bnbig factor.
DRC, the provinces with more highh education are far ahead of those with lower education.

South Africa itself is another living proof. Companies have been hiring foreign Africans with higher educcation, while so many High school grads SAns are in chronic unemployment.


I have worked in Retail and Hospitality (Hotels and Casinos), you cannot get a managerial position without BA degree. and for Supervisor position, Associate degree is the minimum requirement....This is in the US.
Its the same criteria in DRC as well.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 03:47 PM   #6854
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Meet the South African Billionaire Buying Britain’s High Street

If you spend any money on a British high street in the coming months, there’s a good chance you’ll be giving some of your cash to a billionaire you’ve never heard of.

Christo Wiese, a 73-year-old South African, expanded his empire Friday with an agreement to buy New Look, the discount women’s clothing retailer, for 780 million pounds ($1.2 billion). His Brait SE investment firm already owned a stake in the Iceland chain of frozen-food stores and last month signed a deal to buy U.K. health-club operator Virgin Active for $1 billion.

For Wiese, a native of South Africa’s arid Northern Cape province, the move into the U.K. is the latest step in a decades-long retail career. He began working at discounter Pep Stores and, after an interlude in diamond mining, returned as chairman in 1980. Last year he agreed to sell the business for $5.7 billion -- which he celebrated with a barbecue -- and is now buying retailers in British towns and cities.

“I still enjoy what I’m doing which is building businesses,” Wiese said in an interview last month. “I don’t play golf. I don’t have any particular passion apart from my business and my family and that gives me all the pleasure that I want.”

Brait is a publicly traded investment firm in which Wiese is the largest shareholder, with 35 percent of the shares and a seat on the board. He’s South Africa’s fourth-richest man, with a fortune of about $7.1 billion, according to Bloomberg’s Billionaire Index.

Currency Decline

Brait is diversifying out of South Africa as local retailers struggle amid unemployment of 24 percent, prolonged labor disputes and high levels of personal debt that are squeezing household incomes. The rand also has lost 22 percent against the dollar in the past two years.

“Any sizable South African company over time is going to have to diversify outside South Africa because the outlook of the rand is weak and the long-term economic prospects are weighing on that,” said Wayne McCurrie, a money manager at Momentum Wealth. “Buying into New Look gives Brait more exposure to a stable currency and taps into the value offering that is expanding in the U.K.”

Brait looks for businesses with strong market positioning, brands and management teams, and the potential for double-digit profit growth, said its South Africa Chief Executive Officer John Gnodde. The company still has around $800 million to spend on acquisitions.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-s-high-street
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Old May 16th, 2015, 03:48 PM   #6855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popa1980 View Post
My point is simple. If you have 100 literate people- and the Accra economy can only employ 20 of them- then how will having 100 literate people change anything?

But yes- I agree that literacy is a basic "right" everyone should have. But i totally disagree with the university educated people. If there is one thing lacking in Africa- its skilled manual labourers.
The problem is academia, in Africa or elsewhere, seems disconnected with what the market needs.

You see it right here in the US too, with armies of students emerging with degrees, but companies still having to train them. It begs the question of whether tertiary education needs to be totally overhauled. It may have made sense in the 20th century, but is it keeping up with the demands of the 21st century? I don't think so.

One of the issues is that universities churn out employees, and not entrepreneurs. That is an enormous problem, especially in the developing world.

Right now, unless you go into a professional field, the attitude of universities is "we'll teach you critical thinking, but your employers will have to teach you actual skills useful for your field." That's just ridiculous.

There should be a system where universities create entrepreneurs, and graduates then get access to finance to launch their own businesses.

Ethiopia is trying to go in that direction, but we'll see.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 03:57 PM   #6856
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Actually Japan's economic success was/is notable due to its high level of average education for production line workers. Apart from the University of Tokyo, Kyoto etc. Japanese universities are actually pretty bad by developed world standards. The remarkable thing is the incredibly good quality of primary and secondary school education with no "tail" of left behind disenfranchised workers like you get in US/Western Europe and to an extreme degree in South Africa. The average high school graduate in east Asia is competent in maths and science - this is really where the focus needs to be, not on the elite students graduating from top universities who will succeed regardless of government intervention.
Exactly..

I have no idea where Popa and Mister get the idea that higher education is overrated.

They cannot name a single country, communist or capitalist, developed or developing that that is a success without a higher education.


Kenya has been getting FDI inn corporate outside SA obvioudly due to it Labour that is with high education when Rwanda with supposedly best economic policies, cleanest and safest city in Africa gets nothing. LOL
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Old May 16th, 2015, 04:24 PM   #6857
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More stats from the 2015 Human Capital Report:

Tertiary-educated population: People of all ages living in the country who have completed tertiary education, classified according to the International Standard Classification of Education (ISCED-97).

Nigeria 11.3m
Egypt 6.7m
South Africa 3.9m
Kenya 2.5m
Morocco 2.2m
Algeria 1.7m
Ethiopia 1.2m
Ghana 1.1m
Uganda 932,000
Cameroon 751,000
Madagascar 700,000
Cote d'Ivoire 699,000
Tunisia 618,000
Zambia 501,000
Tanzania 478,000


Germany.
And they are a country that has real world skills based and academic tertiary education sector.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 05:11 PM   #6858
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My country DRC still pays dearly for having Nationalized the economy without having University educated Class.

It was just some high school people who were put in ,anagment of State owned companies and within the administration of the Civil servant sector.

Agriculture too severely suffered for lack of Agronomists, the massive research center fail to dust for same reason. it was a desaster.

Every Congolese is aware that the country is terrible at managment....Its just recently like 12 years ago that Managment Majors started to be tought at Universities and colleges.
Obviously there is no Managment Majors in our High schools. thee are abot 7 Majors that start from High school , the rest are to the Universities and colleges.

Last edited by BUTEMBO21; May 16th, 2015 at 05:22 PM.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 05:21 PM   #6859
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Yup. Saudi is a prime example- useless country- university educated people doing nothing. My Dad studied with many of them in Scotland when he did his PhD- they all went back home and got comfortable yet useless government jobs.

Eastern Europe has a big problem with overqualified workers too- they have a large % of their population with degrees but the economy cant absorb them all.

This list only talks of those who are "inactive" but doesnt talk of those who are "active" in jobs that you dont require a degree for- the results would be much worse.
You realise that Germany tops this list, don't you?
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Old May 16th, 2015, 05:39 PM   #6860
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I suspect Germany is distorted by its retirees tho haven't checked. the report has a breakdown of inactive population by age for each country
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