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Old April 21st, 2019, 10:45 PM   #181
dark_shadow1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post
1. How about information about tax breaks the winning company will have, because it provides "clean" energy?
What about import taxes on PV panels, are there any?
Are there any discounts in this department?
2. For starters, I would want proof that the new technology is better while being based on the same energy source (the Sun).
3. https://www.newsmax.com/fastfeatures.../29/id/621537/, let me know if you need more
4. and 5. Sure, if they invent a nuclear reactor small enough and safe enough to put on the roof of my building I won't mind at all.
6. If you watched it in full, do explain how things are different now.
Has the amount of energy falling pers square meter of land changed since?
Have they invented some revolutionary PV tech that has energetic efficiency that is even 10% better then what we had in 2013?
Do enlighten me
7. You refuse the reality.
I gave you a direct link about Australian government funding Tesla powerwall and solar roof enterprise.
Is there any reason to believe, this is different elsewhere in the world?
1. For the sake of the argument, lets assume that the import tax on PV panels is 13%, compared to 15% on gas turbines. Does it make PV panels inefficient?
2. Better than what? And according to what criteria?
3. What does a loan from 2009 to a defunct company have to do with the efficiency or inefficiency of PV panels?
4. The reality is that small-scale energy production is almost always less efficient than large-scale energy production.
6. The efficiency I'm talking about is cost per kwh. A PV panel which can allow selling 1 kwh of electricity for 5 cents but has efficiency of 10% is better than a panel which has efficiency of 15% but is much more expensive and therefore allows selling 1 kwh for 10 cents. The huge progress which was made in the PV industry in the last few years was due to progress in production methods as well as significant increase in the production volume- which have allowed reducing production costs and therefore energy production cost.
7. Come on, what does energy storage have to do with PV panels efficiency? Please refer back to my first comment here- I'm well aware of the fact that large-scale energy storage is currently quite expensive and that's why it's problematic to move to solar-only energy production despite PV panels being efficient.
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Old April 22nd, 2019, 08:35 AM   #182
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1. Could be.
Depends on the profit margin (if there is profit).
2. According to the same criteria (actual price in whatever currency units to kilowatt of power generated.
3. It is not a loan, it is taxpayer money, which illustrates how all the PV industry came to be.
4. Not necessarily. Mass production of small scale reactors could be just as profitable as mass production of solar panels (if not more so).
6. I agree, but how does it change the fact that taking up large parts of land (which costs alot in Israel even in Negev) is not an efficient way to provide energy?
7. That wasn't the point of my post.
My point was, that PV installations are still subsidized by the governments.
Rest assured, if some company were to offer only the panels without the batteries, they would have received the subisidies as well.
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Old April 22nd, 2019, 07:38 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post
1. Could be.
Depends on the profit margin (if there is profit).
2. According to the same criteria (actual price in whatever currency units to kilowatt of power generated.
3. It is not a loan, it is taxpayer money, which illustrates how all the PV industry came to be.
4. Not necessarily. Mass production of small scale reactors could be just as profitable as mass production of solar panels (if not more so).
6. I agree, but how does it change the fact that taking up large parts of land (which costs alot in Israel even in Negev) is not an efficient way to provide energy?
7. That wasn't the point of my post.
My point was, that PV installations are still subsidized by the governments.
Rest assured, if some company were to offer only the panels without the batteries, they would have received the subisidies as well.
1. And...? Do you expect me to check whether there are any tax incentives, then calculate the price/kwh when those incentives are included? That's not how arguments work- if you think I'm at fault, please provide data.
2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_o...source#Germany
Price per MWh in Germany dropped from 78-142 Euros in 2013 to 37-115 in 2018.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_o...#United_States
Price per MWh in the USA dropped from 396$ in 2010 to 48.8$ in 2019. For comparison, the tenders in Israel I referred to were closed at 0.18 ils/KWh, which is 180 ils/MWh or 44 euros/50$, which is pretty similar to the prices in Germany and the USA.
3. And what's your point? The American car industry was heavily supported by the American government as well- does it make cars inefficient?
4. The problem is not production but installation and maintenance. A large PV field can product energy for a lower cost than a small installation on a roof, due to its sheer scale- which allows purchasing the panels for less, installing them for less per panel, and maintaining them for lower cost.
6. What's your point? Again, you don't provide a metric which can allow anyone to decide whether something is efficient or not. There is plenty of free land in the Negev- I'm pretty sure it's possible to power up the entire country just by installing PV panels on empty land in the Arava.
7. If that's your point- then please provide some data on PV subsidies from 2017-2019 instead of articles on subsidies for completely different stuff.
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 08:32 AM   #184
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1. Yes I do. If you support a change from the current situation and if the change is going to incur increased spending of public fundiong, I expect anyone who supports that to provide good reasons why it is a good idea.
The default should always be avoiding spending other people money.
Of course I expect it not just from you, but mostly from the decision makers.

2. Germany is totally dependant on its neighbours supplying energy when its glorious renewables don't work.
Also Germany has one of the highest prices per kw/h everywhere in the developed world.
A large part of that owing to its braindead initiatives in "green" energy.
Last time I checked it costs less then half a shequel for kilowatt in Israel.
In Germany it is ~1.2 ILS per kilowatt.
Do get your facts straight before posting them.
If Israeli government was dumb enough to follow Germany's path, we would be paying about twice as much of what we are paying now.
Good thing, not everyone is a green moron among our decision makers and most of the talk about "green energy" is just talk.
Prices in USA vary widly based on place of residence and local energy policies.
The figure for USA is therefore meaningless, just as average body temperature in a hospital when you average prices of those with high fever in infection department and the dead bodies in the morgue.

3. Not the cars, just the american car industry.
Indeed when the competition was opened, it largely failed to compete, leaving countless people without jobs and whole cities collapsing as a result.
This proves, that it was unsustainable in the first place and the government was wrong in supporting it.
What answer did you expect from me?

4. I am familiar with the concept of economies of scale, thank you
And no, production is also a problem, unless you refuse to take subsidies into account.
If you think Chinese government (which drove down PV panels manufacturing costs), achieved that without subsidies, you are deluding yourself.
There were no technological breakthroughs in PV panels manufacturing in the last few years.
Nothing that could achieve that price drop you are referring to.
Don't get me wrong, I don't dispute their right to do so.
I just don't want to participate in it.

6. The guy in the youtube video provided a metric.
You just refuse to consider it.
You know the metric where he showed the parts of Britain that need to be covered in PV panels in order to supply its energy needs.
Israel wouldn't fare that much better.
And more importantly, what for?
We already have enough gas to last us for several decades.
Even if it were cheap as you claim and the prices were still declining, whats the rush?
If you are right and prices will continue to go down, we can have the same PV panels in a decade for a fraction of the cost.

7. Sure.
Knock yourself out as they say
https://www.energysage.com/solar-pan...incentives/ca/
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 08:15 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post
1. Yes I do. If you support a change from the current situation and if the change is going to incur increased spending of public fundiong, I expect anyone who supports that to provide good reasons why it is a good idea.
The default should always be avoiding spending other people money.
Of course I expect it not just from you, but mostly from the decision makers.

2. Germany is totally dependant on its neighbours supplying energy when its glorious renewables don't work.
Also Germany has one of the highest prices per kw/h everywhere in the developed world.
A large part of that owing to its braindead initiatives in "green" energy.
Last time I checked it costs less then half a shequel for kilowatt in Israel.
In Germany it is ~1.2 ILS per kilowatt.
Do get your facts straight before posting them.
If Israeli government was dumb enough to follow Germany's path, we would be paying about twice as much of what we are paying now.
Good thing, not everyone is a green moron among our decision makers and most of the talk about "green energy" is just talk.
Prices in USA vary widly based on place of residence and local energy policies.
The figure for USA is therefore meaningless, just as average body temperature in a hospital when you average prices of those with high fever in infection department and the dead bodies in the morgue.

3. Not the cars, just the american car industry.
Indeed when the competition was opened, it largely failed to compete, leaving countless people without jobs and whole cities collapsing as a result.
This proves, that it was unsustainable in the first place and the government was wrong in supporting it.
What answer did you expect from me?

4. I am familiar with the concept of economies of scale, thank you
And no, production is also a problem, unless you refuse to take subsidies into account.
If you think Chinese government (which drove down PV panels manufacturing costs), achieved that without subsidies, you are deluding yourself.
There were no technological breakthroughs in PV panels manufacturing in the last few years.
Nothing that could achieve that price drop you are referring to.
Don't get me wrong, I don't dispute their right to do so.
I just don't want to participate in it.

6. The guy in the youtube video provided a metric.
You just refuse to consider it.
You know the metric where he showed the parts of Britain that need to be covered in PV panels in order to supply its energy needs.
Israel wouldn't fare that much better.
And more importantly, what for?
We already have enough gas to last us for several decades.
Even if it were cheap as you claim and the prices were still declining, whats the rush?
If you are right and prices will continue to go down, we can have the same PV panels in a decade for a fraction of the cost.

7. Sure.
Knock yourself out as they say
https://www.energysage.com/solar-pan...incentives/ca/
I think I prefer arguing with a wall.
You don't provide any metrics. You don't read any links I post. You ask for data- then write a bunch of unrelated sentences when I post it. You ask me to find facts to prove you are right.
Just as a small example- I claim that large scale PV is efficient, than you post an article which shows subsidies for small-scale PV installations to prove me wrong.
You can add another 1000-words long reply, but I'm not gonna waste my time on reading it.
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Old April 24th, 2019, 07:32 PM   #186
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If kw/h price and the area it would take in Britain to supply its energy needs don't satisfy you as metrics, then I am sorry
And you should read more carefully, I agreed with you that large scale PV (like large scale anything) is cheaper because of economies of scale.
I am just not convinced, thats reason enough to go for it.

Oh and check out this article:
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27393805
The reason I can't provide you with links about subsidies for large scale PV installations is (wait for it), because the governments find out, its not really worth it
Shocking I know
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Old April 24th, 2019, 09:08 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post
1. Regarding self contained reactors.
They don't have to be from RosAtom (with all the political baggage).
There are similar options from Toshiba (I remember reading about them a couple of years ago).
American companies (Westinghouse I believe) also offered a similar solution.
For the complete list see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...eactor_designs
LLNL has a particularly attractive design called SSTAR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small,...nomous_reactor
Those seem to be all conceptual proposals, not existing products. I'm not sure, but I believe only civil ones which exist, are from Rosatom, and those are adapted from military projects.

The advantage is for use in mobile platforms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post
Mainly because it is passively safe and also because it scales up to 100MW which is pretty amazing, if you check its dimensions.
Just think about it, 10 such units could replace a major fossil fuel power plant like the one in Hadera or Ashkelon.
About a hundred would provide almost 100% of all Israel's energy needs and you don't even need that many.
Just calculate whatever required base load and provide say 30-40% of that with those little guys and you are golden.
Sure, they aren't as efficient as larger ones, but their maintenance costs are negligible (compared to big ones), there is no problem with radioactive waste (the reactor provider takes care of that for you).
And there are no NPT issues, because they are sealed and tamper proof.
How is this better than a full-size power plant? And even more than a normal plant, the product would have to be maintained and serviced by the foreign owners of the technology (unless enough Rosatom engineers would decide to make aliyah to Israel).

Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post
Regarding energy efficiency, I am not disputing that its important, but truth be told, its not that important
It all comes down to logistics and raw materials cost (which directly stems from their availability).
Lets talk about Israel.
Gas is close to shore so logistics aren't that hard.
Coal and oil are less great.
Efficiency is one of the main determinants of price of coal/gas generated electricity, second to cost of the material containing the chemical energy. In the case of coal and gas comparisons, the increased efficiency of the combined cycle gas plant, is how it can sometimes be now cheaper than coal.

Even though produced domestically, gas price itself in Israel will not be below coal in the price/joule equivalent comparison. But we can convert higher ratio of chemical energy of gas to electrical energy, than we can with coal, which is how it can be undercutting coal.
Quote:
Neither are PV, wind turbines etc, because they are either manufactured abroad (and therefore aren't that beneficial for the economy) and also because the raw materials required for their manufacturing is also abroad.
Not only it is abroad, it is in somewhat sensitive countries (like China).
Nuclear on the other hand is in US, which could be sensitive in the future, but is OK for now.
I don't think energy security is an issue for PV panels. The technology is quite open and there are many countries and companies which can supply the product.

Quote:
Both nuclear and renewables don't require an ongoing supply of raw materials, so both are OK in that area, but nuclear simply provides more power and much greater power densitry (amount of area required for hosting it).

Nuclear has obvious security risks (terror attacks, the need to protect it in case of war), but hey so are the current power plants.
And don't even get me started on the offshore gas platforms which we need to protect now.
Surely they are a much bigger challenge in that respect then a few small underground facilities that would be used for hosting these modular reactors.

Again there is no direct comparison between renewables and fossils/nuclear.
Simply because you can't use renewables for base load.
Their production varies wildly and negatively impacts the grid stability.
So Israel is also building very expensive storage facilities (such as molten salt for Ashalim) or hydro storage (one was recently completed).
So why bother with wind and solar, if you are still going to need to spend an awful lot of $$$ to either back it up with conventional plants, or expensive storage facilities which also takes several years to complete, when you could simply get yourself a few nuclear reactors and be done with it?
Where is that "agility"?

And if you are saying that storage costs are steadily going down, then why not wait a few years and buy them on the cheap, rather then be the fools and purchase them now while its expensive?
Who cares even if the solar or wind is now cheaper (even if unsubsidized), if it would be even cheaper in a few years?
Again, its not like Israel has energy supply issues and we don't owe it to anybody.
Whats the rush?
Question here is again about nimbleness. It will be interesting to wait (not that we are people who make any decisions) a few years, and see what will happen to the cost of storage.

Advantages of new possibilities opening up like floating PV, though, are beyond just nimbleness (e.g. they also reduce water loss by evaporation).

Last edited by chali1; April 24th, 2019 at 09:16 PM.
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Old April 24th, 2019, 10:49 PM   #188
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1. On mobile reactors.
I don't know if they are available even from RosAtom.
The main issue is that there is very little demand for nuclear reactors in general (small and portables ones as well).

2. On why its better, you said it yourself that you want nimbleness, they provide that

3. Well, there are other costs associated with coal, pollution (not the CO2 nonsense mind you, but actual polluting chemicals expelled by burning coal, nimbys (nobody wants a power plant nearby, but coal especially so).

4. Energy security is not an issue on the small scale (if we are talking about Israel), but globally it certainly is an issue.
Materials required for PV manufacturing are either mined in dictatorships (such rare earth metals in China), or in unstable countries in Africa (cobalt in some African countries).
Truly worldwide adoption of PV, will position those countries in a similar position currenltly enjoyed by Gulf States.
I am not entirely sure, its such a good idea (especially if you like some others proclaim that your main goal is to stop dependance on oil and countries such as Saudi Arabia).
Surely, China ir Congo are not the best countries to depend on for raw materials or manufacturing when it comes to energy production.
Lithium btw is also mostly mined in China and recently Argentina.
Thorium on the other hand is available in many different countries including US and India.

5. Regarding energy storage, I am gonna go out on a limb and say, nothing will change.

6. On floating PV installations, what country are you referring to?
Certainly not Israel, I presume?
And why would one want to stop evaporation by covering the water surface with PV?
If you care about marine life, I am not sure the cure is better then the disease.
For making an appreciable change in water evaporation, you would need to block enough of the water surface so as to block sunlight from penetrating it, thus killing countless sea dwelling creatures (not to mention algae) which are critical for supplying us with oxygen that we breathe.
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Old April 25th, 2019, 12:43 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post
1. On mobile reactors.
I don't know if they are available even from RosAtom.
The main issue is that there is very little demand for nuclear reactors in general (small and portables ones as well).
We know in the world at least one modified version, now used for civil purposes, produced by Rosatom (subsidiary).
https://inis.iaea.org/collection/NCL...8/31058468.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post

4. Energy security is not an issue on the small scale (if we are talking about Israel), but globally it certainly is an issue.
Materials required for PV manufacturing are either mined in dictatorships (such rare earth metals in China), or in unstable countries in Africa (cobalt in some African countries).
Truly worldwide adoption of PV, will position those countries in a similar position currenltly enjoyed by Gulf States.
I am not entirely sure, its such a good idea (especially if you like some others proclaim that your main goal is to stop dependance on oil and countries such as Saudi Arabia).
Surely, China ir Congo are not the best countries to depend on for raw materials or manufacturing when it comes to energy production.
Lithium btw is also mostly mined in China and recently Argentina.
Thorium on the other hand is available in many different countries including US and India.
PV component and material sourcing countries (i.e. China as a main source of silicon), will not be equivalent to oil producing companies. It's comparable to gas turbine producing countries like Germany, and the sources of the commodities used to produce these components (i.e. steel and super-alloy producing countries).

PV does not contain the energy. It converts solar energy to electrical energy. Similarly gas turbine does not contain energy. It converts chemical energy (to thermal energy, to mechanical energy) to electrical energy.

While oil, gas and coal producing countries, are exporting the energy itself. That's why their export is far more valuable and has to be a constant production and export of the commodities, in vast quantities.

Energy security issues related to PV, will be more analogous to those related to importing and producing turbines for a gas or coal power plant. It's not equivalent to importing gas or coal itself (as the energy itself, arrives to the country directly from the sun).
Quote:
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5. Regarding energy storage, I am gonna go out on a limb and say, nothing will change.
Prices are falling. As Lazard's report: "capital costs of vanadium flow battery storage will have estimated cost reduction of 38% in 5 years, and of lithium-ion batteries cost reduction of 28% from now to 2023. "

The interesting question will be how this changes the total cost-comparisons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post

6. On floating PV installations, what country are you referring to?
Certainly not Israel, I presume?
And why would one want to stop evaporation by covering the water surface with PV?
If you care about marine life, I am not sure the cure is better then the disease.
For making an appreciable change in water evaporation, you would need to block enough of the water surface so as to block sunlight from penetrating it, thus killing countless sea dwelling creatures (not to mention algae) which are critical for supplying us with oxygen that we breathe.
Floating PV reduces evaporation rates by at least 30% in the area of water covered. In addition, they are significantly more efficient than land based PV - they are naturally cooled by moving water which reduces energy expenditure, and they utilize otherwise useless surface area.

Covering bodies of water used as reservoirs with floating PV, would also help to solve the water crisis, as well as utilizing otherwise useless surface area in the country. More ambitiously, I wonder if the Dead Sea would also be a perfect location, as it would "kill two birds with one stone", reducing its evaporation rate.

If you are worried about fish, they can probably survive in bodies of water covered with floating PV, as you do not need to cover the whole body of water for its overall evaporation rate to still be substantially reduced.

Currently Eshkol reservoir is experimenting with some small blocks of floating PV.

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Old April 25th, 2019, 08:17 AM   #190
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Ah, so you were referring to floating designs.
As far as I know, there is only one built (according to Wiki anyway), and frankly, compared to its size (and the need to have it on sea shore) makes it unsuitable for Israel.
Having a pretty large floating platform just to produce 50MW of power doesn't sound particularly attractive to me.
The designs offered by Toshiba and others, appear to be more compact and don't have to be on sea shore.
Also this reactor is rather old design and like all PWR designs requires pretty frequent maintenance.

Regarding PV source materials, sure, but unlike gas turbines which require relatively minor amount of steel and other materials, PV panels require alot of pretty expensive and rarely encountered stuff like neodymium, cobalt, lithium and maybe some others I am not aware of.
It is one thing to rely on steel, which is mined and produced pretty much around the globe and quite another to rely on a material that is only produced in a handful of places.
Don't forget that in order to make PV tech a significant contributor to world's energy production, you need massive amounts of these materials.
And material/energy output ratio is nowhere near as good as with steel required for gas turbines manufacturing.


On energy storage, I am not sure there is a long term price decline trend.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium
Check out various time ranges (1 year, vs 5 years and so on) and you will see lithium now is still more expensive then it was in 2016.
As to Vanadium prices, I also don't see the price decline trend just yet:
https://www.vanadiumprice.com/vanadi...ng-mainstream/
I would say the opposite.
If PV and Wind are really embraced world wide, it is reasonable to assume, that that these material's prices will start rising and will do so for the foreseeable future.
And that's even before the lithium demands for EV's, various gadgets and for other more traditional uses.

Regarding floating PVs, sorry I misunderstood.
I thought you were advocating, covering the seas with them.
For reservoirs, I don't have a problem, though considering the area, they occupy, I think it is pretty negligible.
In Israel, even if we cover the area of all of them, it probably won't be enough even to produce 100MW in a hot sunny day.
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Old April 25th, 2019, 03:59 PM   #191
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Ah, so you were referring to floating designs.
As far as I know, there is only one built (according to Wiki anyway), and frankly, compared to its size (and the need to have it on sea shore) makes it unsuitable for Israel.
The floating reactor is the same product in the end. Self-contained, compact nuclear reactors, which are fueled offsite, were developed (in both America and USSR) from the 1950s and 1960s, for use on military ships and submarines. Now they are viewed as having a civil potential, although from my limited knowledge, I believe only Rosatom is currently operating them for civil purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post
Having a pretty large floating platform just to produce 50MW of power doesn't sound particularly attractive to me.
The designs offered by Toshiba and others, appear to be more compact and don't have to be on sea shore.
Also this reactor is rather old design and like all PWR designs requires pretty frequent maintenance.
These were proposals by companies like Toshiba. They were not developed yet.

For example, the subsidiary of Toshiba that proposed that product, went bankrupt two years ago, so it does not look like the 4S design will be realized soon. https://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/ir/e...20180531_1.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix2020 View Post
Regarding PV source materials, sure, but unlike gas turbines which require relatively minor amount of steel and other materials, PV panels require alot of pretty expensive and rarely encountered stuff like neodymium, cobalt, lithium and maybe some others I am not aware of.
It is one thing to rely on steel, which is mined and produced pretty much around the globe and quite another to rely on a material that is only produced in a handful of places.
Don't forget that in order to make PV tech a significant contributor to world's energy production, you need massive amounts of these materials.
And material/energy output ratio is nowhere near as good as with steel required for gas turbines manufacturing.


On energy storage, I am not sure there is a long term price decline trend.
https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium
Check out various time ranges (1 year, vs 5 years and so on) and you will see lithium now is still more expensive then it was in 2016.
As to Vanadium prices, I also don't see the price decline trend just yet:
https://www.vanadiumprice.com/vanadi...ng-mainstream/
I would say the opposite.
If PV and Wind are really embraced world wide, it is reasonable to assume, that that these material's prices will start rising and will do so for the foreseeable future.
And that's even before the lithium demands for EV's, various gadgets and for other more traditional uses.
The raw materials are only one input to the cost (whether of storage or of PV panels.) Price reduction of PV in recent years was from manufacturing economies of scale, for example.

These raw material costs are very volatile, and manufacturers have to take that into account by signing long term contracts.

To see how volatile some of these commodities are, for example, what happened with Colbalt prices this year. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...ice-Crash.html

Quote:
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Regarding floating PVs, sorry I misunderstood.
I thought you were advocating, covering the seas with them.
For reservoirs, I don't have a problem, though considering the area, they occupy, I think it is pretty negligible.
In Israel, even if we cover the area of all of them, it probably won't be enough even to produce 100MW in a hot sunny day.
The surface area needed, is not as much as you think. 1 square kilometer of PV panels produces at least 100MW. Kinneret is up to 21 kilometers long * 13 kilometers wide. It's not a square though, so perhaps half this figure, and you can see the area is maybe at least about 135 square kilometers. If you cover only 1/10 of Kinneret with PV panels, it could generate at least 1350MW. (If you theoretically covered all of Kinneret with PV, it could generate more than 13500MW - similar to maximum current total electricity production capacity in Israel).

Problem is more high cost of PV panels, cost of transport and cost of storage, than lack of space.

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Old April 25th, 2019, 05:07 PM   #192
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Noble Energy - planting of jacket of gas platform for Leviathan in February

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Old April 30th, 2019, 01:38 PM   #193
Ynhockey
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Speaking of nuclear power plants, check out this news:

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctech/a...761168,00.html

Not that it means much since the government is changing and the next energy minister might bury the idea—but they might also promote it more than Steinitz ever did.
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Old May 16th, 2019, 11:36 PM   #194
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Three groups bid to built Israel’s biggest-yet desalination plant

When facility is completed in 2023, the Jewish state will be drawing 85% of its potable water from the sea

When the new facility, Israel’s sixth, is completed, it will provide some 200 million cubic meters of water per year, or about one-fifth of household and municipal water consumed in Israel each year, the Finance Ministry said in a statement on Thursday.

The winning bid will also gain the right to construct a private 150-megawatt power station to help power the facility, to be located near Soreq.

Construction is set to begin in 2020, and water production in 2023, at which point Israel, already a world leader in desalination, will be drawing fully 85 percent of its potable water from the sea.

A tender for a seventh plant is planned in the coming year.

Article: https://www.timesofisrael.com/three-...ination-plant/
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