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Old April 18th, 2019, 05:45 PM   #3601
ElViejoReino
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Past:
1- Chicago
2- New York
3- Hong Kong

Present:
1- Shenzhen
2- Dubai
3- New York

Future:
1- Toronto
2- Shenzhen
3- Melbourne
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Old April 19th, 2019, 05:13 AM   #3602
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Melbourne's coming on like gangbusters.
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Old April 19th, 2019, 05:43 PM   #3603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Where do people keep getting this idea that Chicago isn't building anything? If a few major proposed projects end up getting built it could be one of the few cities globally with 10 supertalls.

Here is a rendering of Chicago's tallest proposed projects and what Chicago could look like by 2023 or so. Quite a few of these are already under construction or are close to groundbreaking so this isn't totally fantasy.


by "rgarri4"

I agree with the sentiments that Chicago isn't doing enough to compare to the global cities that are on fire. Chicago's antiquated process for development proposals to undergo is too stringent and the process pushes projects back years or outright tables them forever for any arbitrary reason with aldermanic prerogative. Nimby's have entirely too much power in the city and even conservative glass boxes face hellfire after being proposed. There would have to be a drastic change in the market and politically for Chicago to ever keep pace with the global heavy-hitters. We are losing our seat at the table with each passing year. Mid-rises and a handful of 400' - 800' glass boxes as the typical additions each year doesn't compare to what's taking place elsewhere.

If Chicago developers could somehow embrace super-talls and innovative architecture again and relax the process as well as lose the anti-density attitude all over the city we could easily come back to the global top 3 and remain there consider our history and aesthetics. We need numbers, creativity and height going forward.
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Old April 19th, 2019, 10:07 PM   #3604
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Quote:
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Btw, I don't think Chicago is a consensus #3 on SSC. Most have it in the 5-6 range. Where it's placed has a strong correlation to what part of the world someone is from. North Americans rank it much higher than people elsewhere.
Size wise the CTBUH has it in the 5-10 range for 150, 200 and 300 meter buildings so that sounds about right. I would never put Chicago outside of my top 10 though no matter where I was from. The skyline is both massive and beautifully proportioned.

It's nice to see Chicago building again but I think it would be lucky to crack top 5 ever again. Cities like Hong Kong and Guangzhou don't seem to have as much going on as they used to though so it could sneak in.

There was a time right after 9/11 and before the Asia boom that Chicago was arguably king of the world. Now it has a lot of competition.

Quote:
If Chicago developers could somehow embrace super-talls and innovative architecture again and relax the process as well as lose the anti-density attitude all over the city we could easily come back to the global top 3 and remain there consider our history and aesthetics. We need numbers, creativity and height going forward.
I agree, I hope Related doesn't botch the Spire site redevelopment and I hope Tribune and a few of the other planned very tall buildings happen, then Chi-town will be back on track.
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Old April 21st, 2019, 12:00 AM   #3605
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Quote:
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There was a time right after 9/11 and before the Asia boom that Chicago was arguably king of the world. Now it has a lot of competition.
I remember this well, Chicago had the tallest skyline on average in the world. That period between '05-'08 the city was on pace to blow NY away with tall buildings. There was Waterview, Waldorf, Trump, The Spire, Mandarin, Arquitectonica and some others all over 800'. Sadly only Trump was built, that was the greatest period for development before the crash where proposals were coming on line almost weekly.

Developers are so frustrating these days, building heights and designs are highly conservative and the podium trend is ruining density and vibrancy at street level. These sites could hold another tower in place of the podiums that would create canyons instead of gaps. The block One Bennett Park is on is a perfect example of how sites are underutilized. On an entire block there is two towers both with podiums stretching to the opposite corner and a park between them, this block could hold 8 buildings that would form a nice streetwall along with thousands of residents/pedestrians bust instead it creates a giant hole in the neighborhood.

Jeanne Gang is the only architect in the city that is adding innovative and inspiring work that are immediate icons. The rest are just mailing it in with rinse and repeat glass slabs with setbacks and fins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I agree, I hope Related doesn't botch the Spire site redevelopment and I hope Tribune and a few of the other planned very tall buildings happen, then Chi-town will be back on track.
I read on SSP from an "insider" that an announcement of the revised plan is coming soon. I'm anticipating another height chop with the hotel component being dropped. Hopefully this doesn't become another Wolf Point which was the ultimate slap in the face for the best site in the entire city for a supertall.

I do like the design on these towers and for once Related is building something worthy of Chicago's legacy and the terracotta would be high-end for today's Chicago. Like NEMA, these two towers exemplify Chicago perfectly.
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Old April 21st, 2019, 02:46 AM   #3606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Size wise the CTBUH has it in the 5-10 range for 150, 200 and 300 meter buildings so that sounds about right. I would never put Chicago outside of my top 10 though no matter where I was from. The skyline is both massive and beautifully proportioned.

It's nice to see Chicago building again but I think it would be lucky to crack top 5 ever again. Cities like Hong Kong and Guangzhou don't seem to have as much going on as they used to though so it could sneak in.

There was a time right after 9/11 and before the Asia boom that Chicago was arguably king of the world. Now it has a lot of competition.
Lots of competition and I suspect it's only going to ramp up further. India will surely follow China to a large degree when it comes to skyscraper construction. Then one has to wonder about all those mega-cities emerging in Africa. They will eventually start building tall as well.

New York may end up the only non-Asian entry in a 'World's Best Skyline' list but hopefully Chicago and Toronto can hang in there for the long haul.
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Old April 21st, 2019, 06:38 PM   #3607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Lots of competition and I suspect it's only going to ramp up further. India will surely follow China to a large degree when it comes to skyscraper construction. Then one has to wonder about all those mega-cities emerging in Africa. They will eventually start building tall as well.

New York may end up the only non-Asian entry in a 'World's Best Skyline' list but hopefully Chicago and Toronto can hang in there for the long haul.
I don't really see that happening anytime *too* soon. Only somewhat developed countries build tons of skyscrapers. I don't think North America's skyscraper days are over either (at least I'd like to think not).
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Old April 21st, 2019, 06:39 PM   #3608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubsfan View Post

I read on SSP from an "insider" that an announcement of the revised plan is coming soon. I'm anticipating another height chop with the hotel component being dropped. Hopefully this doesn't become another Wolf Point which was the ultimate slap in the face for the best site in the entire city for a supertall.

I do like the design on these towers and for once Related is building something worthy of Chicago's legacy and the terracotta would be high-end for today's Chicago. Like NEMA, these two towers exemplify Chicago perfectly.

Tribune is our only hope. I hope the spire site still ends up being 950+. Lame but tolerable I guess.
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Old April 21st, 2019, 11:36 PM   #3609
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Quote:
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I don't really see that happening anytime *too* soon. Only somewhat developed countries build tons of skyscrapers. I don't think North America's skyscraper days are over either (at least I'd like to think not).
It will be a long time before African mega-city skylines become part of the conversation but they're already starting to build tall despite being poor. Look at Lagos.
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Old April 22nd, 2019, 03:31 AM   #3610
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It will be a long time before African mega-city skylines become part of the conversation but they're already starting to build tall despite being poor. Look at Lagos.
What's going on in Lagos?
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 12:43 AM   #3611
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What's going on in Lagos?
The population is exploding* and they're quickly running out of places to put people. There's nothing in Lagos that skyscraper enthusiasts will pay attention to but the beginnings of a skyline is quite evident. I suspect it's just the tip of the iceberg. We once thought that skyscrapers were things only rich countries built but that's just not the case.

Most of the world's biggest skylines are now in Asia. I wouldn't be surprised if African skylines became the next most prevalent by mid century. A lot of people in the West are blind to how big Africa is going to be.


* 290,000 people in 1950. Today Lagos has over 20 million people and it goes up by about 275,000 annually. Similar growth is occurring all over Africa.
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Last edited by isaidso; April 23rd, 2019 at 01:04 AM.
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 05:43 AM   #3612
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I think...
1.Shenzhen
2.Shanghai
3.Newyork
4.Hongkong
5.Dubai
6.Tokyo
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 05:59 AM   #3613
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Chicago has really disappointed me lately. The city will remain world-class (the office market is really solid!) but the architecture is stagnating. You know it's bad when two completely different projects look almost the same. Vista is nice, at least.



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Old April 23rd, 2019, 09:00 AM   #3614
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Great pics of Shenzhen taken from different perspectives.
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 09:35 AM   #3615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Melbourne's coming on like gangbusters.
Yes we're in the middle of fairly massive boom atm. Cranes everywhere on the skyline.

Just as a comp: Buildings UC 150m+

Toronto - 27 (8 of those 200m+)
Melbourne - 26 (11 of those 200m+)
Rest of Australia - 14 (6 of those 200m+)
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 10:31 PM   #3616
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It's nice to see an Australian skyline moving up like that. If there was any doubt which was Australia's premier skyline there won't be in a few years.

Btw, my Toronto count is a little different for UC 150m+ but the database I use counts 'site prep' as UC.

Toronto - 33 (11 of those 200m+)
Toronto (Missisisauga included) - 35 (11 of those 200m+)
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Last edited by isaidso; April 23rd, 2019 at 10:59 PM.
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Old April 23rd, 2019, 11:10 PM   #3617
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Quote:
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It will be a long time before African mega-city skylines become part of the conversation but they're already starting to build tall despite being poor. Look at Lagos.
Being poor maybe today, Africa also has most of the fastest growing economies in the world.
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Old April 24th, 2019, 01:04 AM   #3618
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I wasn't suggesting that Africa will always be poor, only that being wealthy isn't a pre-requisite to building tall.
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Old April 24th, 2019, 01:16 AM   #3619
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Chicago has really disappointed me lately. The city will remain world-class (the office market is really solid!) but the architecture is stagnating. You know it's bad when two completely different projects look almost the same. Vista is nice, at least.
Goettsch is a one-trick pony. He's done about 7 towers within a few blocks of each other in the Loop/West Loop. BMO, UBS tower, 155 N Wacker, 150 N. Riverside, 111 S. Wacker, 110 N. Wacker are all very similar. Even One Chicago Square is from the same playbook. The shorter building for OCS is an exact copy of BMO, UBS and 110 N Wacker if you look close.


50 stories? (check) Slab shaped?(check) Blue Glass? (check) Fins? (check) One side of the building tiered? (check) lackluster crown? (check)

Then he ....'they' design curvy sleek modern towers outside the city..


This is the story with most architects in Chicago other than Jeanne Gang who's creative on every project.

Last edited by cubsfan; April 24th, 2019 at 01:31 AM.
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Old April 24th, 2019, 07:19 PM   #3620
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Stupid question time cubsfan:

Is Jeanne Gang "Studio Gang"?

We have an extraordinary "Studio Gang" design on the stove (suffering thru the usual city stuff) that I'm loathe to post (Dubai will steal even though it's not too tall). lol

Nevermind: got off my butt to see Studio Gang's wonderful portfolio. (their next best is hiding in the bowels of T.O. city planning)

Last edited by elliot; April 24th, 2019 at 08:41 PM.
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