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Old June 9th, 2019, 10:52 PM   #11201
MichiH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
TUTOR calculates average speed between two portals.
I usually just saw one portal. I think only once (or twice?) I've clearly seen a beginning and an end portal. I never realized when I can go faster again. Or is the "signed portal" already the second one and when I see it, it's too late anyway? That's why I just drove 4km/h over the limit instead of ~10...


Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
No chaos in Rome? Were you driving at 2AM on a Wednesday night?
Well, a lot of traffic, yes. But chaos, no. Roundabouts were empty paradises. Cars only entered them when there was no other car around. And red lights were respected, it was "just a recommendation to be more careful" when I drove in Torino years ago. But in Rome, Milano and other cities or towns cars immediately stopped when the red orange light appeared. That's not MY ITALY!
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Old June 9th, 2019, 11:17 PM   #11202
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3. Speeding. If there is any speed limit, it is ignored! For instance, 50 limit out of town on Strada Statale instead of 90: You will be overtaken when creeping with 70...80 despite being in no-passing zones. 40 in construction sites on Autostrada instead of 130: 80 is too slow, you'll get flashed by car behind you. BUT: The general speed limits are meet quite well. I usually drove with cruise control 4km/h over the limit - which means exactly meeting the limit when GPS measured. I was rarly overtaken. Most cars drove a little bit slower (I was usually on the left lane) some damn slow (-10..20km/h) and less cars a little bit faster but I think there were only a handful of drivers goint more than 150km/h. And then, speed limit due to construction sites everyone was speeding like hell! So weird!
Italian public administrators are particularly paranoid (due to a mix of uncertain outcomes from the legal system and a general slooooow bureaucratic attitude), so we get a lot of road situations regulated in a much more restrictive fashion than the general law requires.
Typically, very low speed limits and passing bans for no actual reasons.

But then people ask to get away with anarchy, so we get the schizophrenic situation of extra low limits coupled with fully publicized speed cameras

The real damage done by unnecessarily strict rules is that the real dangerous spots don't get enough attention... the info gets lost in background noise.
Like, on a road designed for 90 km/h and limited to 50 most people will do 70-90 anyway... not knowing that maybe there's a specific curve which actually needs 50.
A 40 or 60 km/h construction zone on a highway can't be taken seriously and will be plainly ignored... make it 80 and the actual average speed will get lower.



Only way to get out of this situation is getting public managers with a spine.
Not going to happen in this political situation.


Tutor can work both as an average speed monitoring (calculates time between two portals) or as a regular speed camera. A single portal can read speed on the spot.
There's no specific beginning or end, any portal is both the end of the previous section and the beginning of the next one.

A legal trickery obliges operators to use only one method at a time, meaning portals can't be used as speed cams while average speed monitoring is active.
But there's no way to know what's going on at the moment, so better comply with both controls


Torino is complete scum, in terms of driving
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Old June 10th, 2019, 02:28 AM   #11203
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Speed limits in Italy are usually a bit lower than in other countries, but what's really different is the passing zones: in Austria, or Germany, or France, local or national roads are usually all passing zones with the occasional solid middle line in tight curves. Italy is the other way around: you cannot pass for kilometers, for no obvious reason, then you have 200 m of a passing zone.
I used to respect no passing zones in Italy, but now that I saw other countries... I mean, why the same kind of road is a passing zone in Austria and a no passing zone in Italy? I don't think physics is different...
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Old June 10th, 2019, 09:47 PM   #11204
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
I've been to Italy in the last weeks. I drove a lot, especially Autostradas (I have clinched more than 80% of mileage now). I've not been south of Salerno / Lecce though (scheduled for my next Italian road trip ).

I was surprised by:

1. There are so many (very small) construction sites on Autostradas. What the hell is going on here? Reduced speed limit, often lane closures - and quite often no workers seen anywhere on-site. For instance, I drove the whole A14. How many construction sites are there from north of Ancona to north of Foggia, 30? 40? 50? Hell....

2. I loved driving in Italy, especailly Torino downtown 5 years ago. I loved the chaos with gridlocks in roundabouts, the rude driving style, scooter overtaking like hell... The latter also happened to me but the chaos seems to be gone. Genova, Milano, Foggia, Rome,... It was so damn boring... like driving in... Germany

3. Speeding. If there is any speed limit, it is ignored! For instance, 50 limit out of town on Strada Statale instead of 90: You will be overtaken when creeping with 70...80 despite being in no-passing zones. 40 in construction sites on Autostrada instead of 130: 80 is too slow, you'll get flashed by car behind you. BUT: The general speed limits are meet quite well. I usually drove with cruise control 4km/h over the limit - which means exactly meeting the limit when GPS measured. I was rarly overtaken. Most cars drove a little bit slower (I was usually on the left lane) some damn slow (-10..20km/h) and less cars a little bit faster but I think there were only a handful of drivers goint more than 150km/h. And then, speed limit due to construction sites, everyone was speeding like hell! So weird!

And, I didn't get how TUTOR should work........
Could it be that Germany has become like Italy?
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Old June 10th, 2019, 10:06 PM   #11205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intersezioni View Post
Could it be that Germany has become like Italy?
About construction sites, yes! The number of lavori in corso might be higher than in Germany. I'm not sure whether most of them are just short-term or even very long-term....

Speeding is different though. Germans do it the other way round
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Old June 11th, 2019, 02:04 PM   #11206
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Everytime I drive on autostrade, I stick to 130 km/h because I fear TUTOR. Then I get passed by one, two, three drivers doing 150+ and start following them. TUTOR is a joke. I guess most of the time it's not active.

On other roads, speed limits are ridiculous so people ignore them. Same for passing bans. The problem has been already pointed out: as the rules are the same everywhere, drivers are not able to identify a particularly dangerous section. People will drive 80 on a rural road with 50 signs, and when they enter a village they'll keep doing 80 next to the town square because the signs are the same (50).

Spain has a similar problem with "Stop" signs. They are everywhere. You must stop two or three times to do some turns. Result: everyone runs the signs and just yields to oncoming traffic, if there's any. And on dangerous intersections when a "stop" sign is necessary, drivers will also run it. In other countries, such as France or the UK, "stop" signs are used only if strictly necessary. On most intersections you just have to yield.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 06:55 PM   #11207
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I agree.

But, don't underestimate the Tutor system, it works at randomized locations but it works.

Don't trust the runners, they don't know anything more than you do
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Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

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Old June 11th, 2019, 07:20 PM   #11208
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I've been driving around Südtirol this week. I noticed the extreme amount of orange box speed cameras, but it appears that half of them are fake, with a sticker of a camera instead of an actual camera.

I clinched Timmelsjoch, Jaufenpass and Penserjoch but Stelvio is still closed. I drove the Ofenpass in Switzerland in pouring rain, there was no point going up the Umbrail in that weather. There is still a lot of snow at elevations over 2000 meters. I started in Mals but the weather was much worse than the forecast, I want to make videos and take scenic pictures, but that doesn't work when the scenery is shrouded in clouds. I had better luck at Timmelsjoch though.
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Old June 11th, 2019, 09:20 PM   #11209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
don't underestimate the Tutor system, it works at randomized locations but it works.
Yes, I can confirm, it work
My collegue collect fine 2 weeks ago
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Old June 12th, 2019, 12:00 PM   #11210
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Autovelox boxes however are probably just boxes, right? Almost no one slows down before them even that they are clearly marked.
But I have to confirm MichiH observations: in Italy driving culture has vastly improved in the last 15 years. Maybe Italians don't see that but we, others, do see. Now just "some" infrastructure improvements have to be done (like strange speed limits and overtaking bans as I just experienced yesterday when driving SS125, also road numbering) and Germany will stay behind 😁
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Old June 12th, 2019, 02:33 PM   #11211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
I agree.

But, don't underestimate the Tutor system, it works at randomized locations but it works.

Don't trust the runners, they don't know anything more than you do
I imagine that. But given that I drive in Italy very seldom, the likelyhood of driving through active TUTOR gantries and being fined is very low. So I assume the risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I've been driving around Südtirol this week. I noticed the extreme amount of orange box speed cameras, but it appears that half of them are fake, with a sticker of a camera instead of an actual camera.
Yeah that's also true. On A27 I drove 130 when there was a signposted speed camera and I had several drivers pass me at 160+.

We also have these dummy boxes in Spain (at least in my region -Catalonia-, don't know if they do it anywhere else) but they are mobile and they just chain them to a sign. I have never seen a radar device inside them, though on TV and press releases they show them.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 03:03 PM   #11212
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Orange boxes are pretty much all empty. I would say that recent cameras are all pole-mounted with ground sensors, but some boxes are still working.

On highways and main roads it's just common to cycle the camera through different boxes. On Sunday I went to Venice by bike and closely checked the boxes: one was fitted with camera and sensors, the other was empty, they just swap the device from time to time.
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 03:31 PM   #11213
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Last edited by intersezioni; June 12th, 2019 at 03:38 PM.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 05:06 PM   #11214
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I was surprised when I drove the new aligned A1Var from Firenze to Bologna at the end of my journey that "TUTOR active" was displayed in the tunnels. Never seen this before. However, I had no idea what's the actual speed limit I slowed down a bit and drove as fast as the other cars, about 105km/h. I think (and hope) that the limit was 110km/h.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 06:37 PM   #11215
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When I drove there (2017) the speed limit was 130 km/h. In the tunnel there were signs reading "Tutor attivo", but not in the open-air sections.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 07:31 PM   #11216
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It was the same few days ago. Also I saw that people are still confused about choosing A1 diretissima or panoramica and they dangerously change direction until the very last moment.
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Old June 12th, 2019, 11:38 PM   #11217
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IMO they should have renamed the old A1 to a new number (just as happened with A57).
They went for a marketing choice but it's very disfunctional.

I think limit was 110 when new-A1 opened, recently was raised to 130, but it's all second hand info.
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.
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Old June 17th, 2019, 12:26 AM   #11218
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3rd lane on 5 km of A4 between Gonars rest area and the junction with A23 will be completed in late July.
http://www.triesteprima.it/cronaca/t...ne-luglio.html
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Old June 18th, 2019, 12:12 PM   #11219
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This you mean on one half just, right? It didn't look to me that advanced 10 days ago.
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