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Old May 20th, 2015, 05:25 PM   #41
CPAcs
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Saying this is better than the red line isn't really saying much. You guys do realize that the gold and red lines are nearly explicitly political bones to throw to Washington and Dakota counties respectively to keep their meager sales tax contributions and support for the CTIB? Basically the thinking was to give them their one metro line each right away no matter how shitty and gimped it is because it will still cost more than those counties will ever contribute in tax dollars, thus keeping them politically and financially tied to the CTIB while the counties that actually put real money in (Hennepin and Ramsey) are free to build the lines they want in places that actually make sense for transit. None of them are even meant to be remotely financially viable lines. They are political tools and development subsidies. Local bus route 21 carries about 14,000 people per day already, more than the Red Line, Gold Line, and Northstar are ever projected to carry combined.
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Old May 20th, 2015, 08:16 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by CPAcs View Post
Saying this is better than the red line isn't really saying much. You guys do realize that the gold and red lines are nearly explicitly political bones to throw to Washington and Dakota counties respectively to keep their meager sales tax contributions and support for the CTIB? Basically the thinking was to give them their one metro line each right away no matter how shitty and gimped it is because it will still cost more than those counties will ever contribute in tax dollars, thus keeping them politically and financially tied to the CTIB while the counties that actually put real money in (Hennepin and Ramsey) are free to build the lines they want in places that actually make sense for transit. None of them are even meant to be remotely financially viable lines. They are political tools and development subsidies. Local bus route 21 carries about 14,000 people per day already, more than the Red Line, Gold Line, and Northstar are ever projected to carry combined.
Seriously? Public Transit has never been about creating financially viable lines. It's about helping improve transportation options. Sure there is some truth about them being political tools but don't get it twisted. These transit lines like for example the Red Line is able to encourage expanded development and allow for housing options in the suburbs that are NOT car focused. Like in Apple Vally just east of the AV Transit Center Station there is a nice big urban village being constructed that will allow for people to be within walking distance of great shopping options and have dependable transit into the downtown too!

I heard about it a lot in the news recently about how millennials don't want to live in a cul de sac where they must depend on a car for access to places. These lines such as the Gold, Red, and Orange lines will allow for better accessibility and can help encourage more urban communities with mixed use developments along these corridors as well.

I really wonder what you think the future will hold and if you don't think such a change in housing will be substantial. Many people will continue to want to live in car based communities but for families that want bigger spaces without the hassle of living downtown (let alone the price for a larger space) may want to live in a corridor such as the Gold, Red or Orange lines to allow them accessibility and still have a "suburb" ish style life. I think it's really exciting that we will start to see a transformation along these corridors that builds density outside of the downtown core. Plus it will increase walkability for us downtown dwellers. Sure I love living downtown but having more places to go in the suburbs that are urban villages would be pretty neat IMO.

Many people currently using the urban bus routes already are dense communities that are less car focused. Now expanding and developing a new corridor is exciting which increases the value of the lines. Do you really think a transit line connecting all the way to Hudson (via the potential Hudson link) is not something that will greatly benefit the area?

Are you against the project? Do you think these areas should remain car focused corridors, which in turn may need more funding for road expansion with more freeway lanes?

Why are you so upset with the project? They are also already working on a Midtown corridor streetcar line and a new 21 route bus that would service this route. Is your complaint that we should delay the Gold line until the Midtown corridor is built or should the Gold line in your eyes be scrapped all together?

There is a lot of potential development spaces along the gold line what would you like to see developed there? I'm curious to what your viewpoint is on the issue.
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Old May 20th, 2015, 11:09 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPAcs View Post
Saying this is better than the red line isn't really saying much. You guys do realize that the gold and red lines are nearly explicitly political bones to throw to Washington and Dakota counties respectively to keep their meager sales tax contributions and support for the CTIB? Basically the thinking was to give them their one metro line each right away no matter how shitty and gimped it is because it will still cost more than those counties will ever contribute in tax dollars, thus keeping them politically and financially tied to the CTIB while the counties that actually put real money in (Hennepin and Ramsey) are free to build the lines they want in places that actually make sense for transit. None of them are even meant to be remotely financially viable lines. They are political tools and development subsidies. Local bus route 21 carries about 14,000 people per day already, more than the Red Line, Gold Line, and Northstar are ever projected to carry combined.
Doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. Throw these counties their bone. They certainly contribute more than my own county does, in which some local politicians have the opinion that it is the Met Council's cash cow (but we'll leave that topic for another thread). It's either build these and keep the suburban and exurban counties happy so that they'll shut up about services being built in the counties that actually give the Met Council some proper funding, or not get the services in the core counties built at all or at the expense of the core cities/counties without regional coordination on it because certain member counties would want to completely disband the Met Council simply because a metaphorical bone hasn't been thrown their way in "forever". (pardon the word vomiting going on in that sentence; it's all one single thought)

Transportation to these far points is more about reducing congestion anyway. It does affect the core cities if there are no congestion reduction measurements done in the suburbs.

7k expected daily riders isn't terrible considering how little is actually currently along the tail end of the line compared to, say, the Red Line.
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Old May 21st, 2015, 11:43 PM   #44
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Northern Lights Express (NLX)



The Minneapolis to Duluth line has a website that can be viewed HERE

yet, more importantly a recent news story that can be viewed HERE has been quote to say:

Quote:
According to Francis Loetterle, MnDOT project manager, a second-level environmental review is currently being conducted, as well as ridership forecasts, revenue projections and cost-benefit analysis.

The environmental work is expected to be completed in February 2016, while the ridership, revenue and cost-benefit study, which will include capital and operation cost estimates and the number of trips each day, is anticipated to be done this summer, Loetterle said.

“We are shooting for July,” he said.
So it looks like we will get some good news on this project very soon! Plus more detailed information this winter! Pretty exciting! This project will be here before you know it!

Also more info is HERE

Plus the Time table for this project is as followed



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Old May 21st, 2015, 11:55 PM   #45
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Northstar Commuter Rail



I think we all know the NorthStar was intended to go to St. Cloud as seen in this line map.



I havn't heard much about the expansion for some time now BUT I came across this news story today that can be viewed HERE

that had the following Quote:

Quote:
Newberger, a paramedic from Becker in his second term, drew boos on the House floor during Tuesday night’s debate on the GOP transportation budget when he noted that a proposed study on expanding the Northstar commuter rail line eventually could take the tracks right past the Minnesota Correctional Facility in St. Cloud.
Does anybody have any information about what study this is and more information about it? I can't seem to find anything about it. It was my understanding the project was completely on hold due to low ridership! Is it true that the expansion is still in the works and being studied? Is there hope to be had that we are seeing progress?

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Old May 22nd, 2015, 12:05 AM   #46
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Does anybody have any information about what study this is and more information about it? I can't seem to find anything about it. It was my understanding the project was completely on hold due to low ridership! Is it true that the expansion is still in the works and being studied? Is there hope to be had that we are seeing progress?

He was referring to the old studies which showed the line couldn't be supported to St. Cloud. Newberger was just referring to the old plans to make a racist point about how we could ship people right from N. Minneapolis to the MCF at St. Cloud.

Typical St. Cloud GOOBER.
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Old May 22nd, 2015, 12:12 AM   #47
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Awesome! This is what I've always wondered about, and have wanted here.

Wish they were proposing entirely new set of tracks along the BSNF corridor specific for the commuter trains, instead of periodic sections. Maybe they will convert to that if ridership is high enough.

Now we need to connect Roch and the Twin Cities!

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Old May 22nd, 2015, 12:26 AM   #48
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Awesome! This is what I've always wondered about, and have wanted
Yea me too! I live downtown without a car now and I would LOVE to be able to just take the train and spend a weekend on the northshore and have some fun!

It's not like we have an ocean anywhere but the northshore comes close, our lakes just are not the same as a big body of water. I wonder how much of an investment impact such a line would have on Duluth. I bet more people would considering moving up north if they knew they could easily come back to the cities whenever they needed.

Heck It could almost make it possible for people to live in Duluth but work in downtown Minneapolis! ...provided you didn't mind sleeping on the 3 hour trip each way.
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Old May 22nd, 2015, 06:30 PM   #49
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Well think about the attraction even just the sports venues that people from Duluth would want to come to in Minneapolis and St. Paul via the NLX.

This link by train would essentially give a feeling that the cities are connected, and I'm sure there would be plenty of promotion from MT and/or NLX for it.

If it's moving quicker than a car, don't have to spend money on gas, etc. people coming from Duluth will fill the trains for a Wild game, Twins game, and especially Vikings games (given they can actually play a little better )
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Old May 22nd, 2015, 09:34 PM   #50
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Yea me too! I live downtown without a car now and I would LOVE to be able to just take the train and spend a weekend on the northshore and have some fun!

It's not like we have an ocean anywhere but the northshore comes close, our lakes just are not the same as a big body of water. I wonder how much of an investment impact such a line would have on Duluth. I bet more people would considering moving up north if they knew they could easily come back to the cities whenever they needed.

Heck It could almost make it possible for people to live in Duluth but work in downtown Minneapolis! ...provided you didn't mind sleeping on the 3 hour trip each way.
Actually the trip time is predicted to be just over 2 hours. Still not reasonable commuting time, but maybe fast enough for a day trip. The planners want to get the running time under two hours ideally because then one train set can make two round trips per day instead of one. That would greatly decrease the operating expense (which is crucial because this thing needs to run at a profit in order to get 90% covered by the FRA) but increase the capital costs upfront. The difference is in upgrading the track, crossings, and trains to run up to 125 mph instead of only 110. As of now the project is aiming for just 110 to keep capital costs to something the government might consider, but if estimates and bids come in under budget (as has been rumored) I could see them using the extra to achieve 125 mph.
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Old May 22nd, 2015, 10:00 PM   #51
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Yeah then I hope they are moving towards this direction of trains. I'd love to se a designated corridor (or at least part of a existing one) the entire way up to Duluth that would be a high speed electric train of this style.

Not a huge fan of the jumbo, powerful locomotive pulling 2 or 3 passenger cars. Doesn't seen economical long term.

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Old May 29th, 2015, 12:37 PM   #52
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Thank you for combining many of these threads that little activity.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 04:11 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjunabeats91 View Post
Well think about the attraction even just the sports venues that people from Duluth would want to come to in Minneapolis and St. Paul via the NLX.

This link by train would essentially give a feeling that the cities are connected, and I'm sure there would be plenty of promotion from MT and/or NLX for it.

If it's moving quicker than a car, don't have to spend money on gas, etc. people coming from Duluth will fill the trains for a Wild game, Twins game, and especially Vikings games (given they can actually play a little better )
As somebody who is moving to Duluth in a few weeks and doesnt own a car, this is exactly what I would be using the train for. Always been a big fan of the Twins, Wild and more so the T-Wolves than Vikings but I would like to experience the new stadium atleast once so this is a great way for me to get to the Twin Cities.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 11:48 PM   #54
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As somebody who is moving to Duluth in a few weeks and doesnt own a car, this is exactly what I would be using the train for. Always been a big fan of the Twins, Wild and more so the T-Wolves than Vikings but I would like to experience the new stadium atleast once so this is a great way for me to get to the Twin Cities.
Well and vise versa (kind of); I'd love to see the lake, walk around the city, and ski at spirit in the winter more often. I do have a car, but if I knew that I could park at a ramp by a station in Minneapolis and sit back for a few hours to Duluth, I'd do it.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 05:47 PM   #55
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What are the chances that should Sun Country go and close down on us ( lord please no ) that Southwest will expand into the vacated spot and offer more flight possibilities? Or for that matter that other airlines - Virgin Atlantic, JetBlu or some of the others might try to get a toe hold in to the local markets? Now in the long run the Ownership and Pilot union will come to an agreement and get this contract issue resolved and we won't have to think of the MSP area without them in it.
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Old June 11th, 2015, 06:59 AM   #56
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What are the chances that should Sun Country go and close down on us ( lord please no ) that Southwest will expand into the vacated spot and offer more flight possibilities? Or for that matter that other airlines - Virgin Atlantic, JetBlu or some of the others might try to get a toe hold in to the local markets? Now in the long run the Ownership and Pilot union will come to an agreement and get this contract issue resolved and we won't have to think of the MSP area without them in it.
I'm not sure that there's any relationship between Virgin Atlantic's business model and Sun Country's. Virgin America, while domestic focused, I think also is unlikely. JetBlue seems more likely, especially since Sun Country has routes to Boston and JFK, which are JetBlue's primary hubs. I would expect that Southwest would probably step in a little bit, but that we're more likely to get an ultra low cost carrier to expand to fill the gap.
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Old June 12th, 2015, 12:50 AM   #57
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I seem to remember reading that JetBlue and Virgin won't touch MSP because Delta's monopoly is too strong. Same reason we're one of the most expensive airports in the country.
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Old June 12th, 2015, 09:28 AM   #58
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I seem to remember reading that JetBlue and Virgin won't touch MSP because Delta's monopoly is too strong. Same reason we're one of the most expensive airports in the country.

I do believe your comment on the expensive part is correct which really does not make a whole lot of sense. Yes we are based in the middle of the country but that we are so expensive just boggles the mind. They have a dedicated line from Flint Hills in Rosemount for the fuel so there is little expense in getting that to the Airport. Maybe it has to do with the never ending construction they have ongoing out there.
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Old June 12th, 2015, 05:23 PM   #59
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The WSJ debunks the "most expensive" claim pretty easily.



http://www.wsj.com/news/interactive/...BB052220140522
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Old June 16th, 2015, 02:01 AM   #60
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According to WCCO, the Green Line is hitting 41,000.

"On an average weekday, Metro Transit estimates 41,000 riders board the Green Line. It’s a number transportation officials weren’t expecting until the year 2030."

It'd be nice to actually see this number published somewhere but if it verifies... kudos!
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