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Old January 4th, 2010, 01:11 AM   #2001
Johnny de Rivative
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JOHNNY'S BIG BANG

EAST MANCHESTER LINE PART 15

Stalybridge . . . ?



Like a Bridge over Tameside Waters . . .

<> Ashton Bus Station <> Wellington Road <> Ashton Railway Station <> Penny Meadow <> Crickets Lane <> Mossley Road <> Darnton Road <> Tameside Hospital <> Mellor Road <> Stamford Park <> Astley Road <> Stamford Street <> Rassbottom Street <> Stalybridge Railway Station <> Market Street <> King Street <> Stalybridge Bus Station <> River Tame <|

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...&page=101#2001

127 images, updated to September 2015

In 1900 the Ladysmith regiment marches East up Penny Meadow out of Ashton-under-Lyne :-


Tameside Image Archive http://www.tameside.gov.uk/history/archive.php3

In the same direction lies Stalybridge, once in the luscious county of Cheshire, and one of a series of small towns or hamlets pressed up against the Pennine hills, the backbone of England. I haven’t seen a local transport history of this area, but the empirical legacy indicates that at or about the turn of the twentieth century, four of these semi-urban authorities banded together to form the Stalybridge, Hyde, Mossley and Dukinfield Joint Transport and Electricity Board. Electricity, being rolled out as a municipal commodity at that time, had significant revenue potential in itself, and so having a ready-made in-house fuel source was a major driver for local authorities to take over the existing private tramways at the end of their franchises. 100 years ago, this pattern was being repeated nationwide, and one such private operator whose days were numbered was the Oldham Ashton and Hyde Electric Tramway, a pioneer of inter-urban workings :-


Tameside Image Archive http://www.tameside.gov.uk/history/archive.php3

The town of Stalybridge is suffused by several waterways, in particular the River Tame and the Huddersfield Narrow Canal (an extension of the Manchester & Ashton Canal), and in the Spring of 1906 there was a great flood :-


Tameside Image Archive http://www.tameside.gov.uk/history/archive.php3

Three trams and a horse & cart at Thompson Cross in 1910, the junction of Stamford Street and Rassbottom Street. Two of the trams are dipping below the horizon on the steep Rassbottom Brow leading to Stalybridge Railway Station and the town centre. The third one is on rails coming along Stamford Street from the direction of Mossley. I would love to know what the layout of routes was in this area :-


G Whitehead Tameside Image Archive http://www.tameside.gov.uk/history/archive.php3

The eponymous ancient stone cross once stood at the apex of the tight corner, but has now been moved behind the camera position to a more convenient spot for the modern traffic intersection. However, this shot reveals another interesting aspect of the tramway layout, namely that there was once a single line taking the sharp and steeply-graded corner in the Eastward direction only – someone will surely know why . . . But I doubt whether a modern LRV would be able to cope with a similar manoeuvre . . . ?


Tameside Image Archive http://www.tameside.gov.uk/history/archive.php3

In any event, it came to pass that the burgeoning fares revenue of the private tramways was a major driver for local authorities to take over and make equitable use of the revenue for further investment and cross-subsidisation of loss-making services which were socially necessary, such as outlying and hospital routes. Perhaps this will happen again one day? Anyway, on 4 June 1921 the Oldham Ashton & Hyde tramways became a joint working between Oldham, Manchester & Ashton Corporations and the Stalybridge, Hyde, Mossley and Dukinfield Joint Board, as seen here at Ashton :-


Thanks Freel, c) Steve Hyde

Thanks also Steve for showing us your dad’s model of a SHMD tram - fabulous :-


Thanks Freel, c) Steve Hyde

Here a similar SHMD balcony car climbs Rassbottom Street out of Stalybridge, seen from the frontage of the Railway Station :-


Tameside Image Archive http://www.tameside.gov.uk/history/archive.php3

As ever in this area, there was much interworking with neighbouring fleets, e.g. Ashton, Stockport and Manchester :-


Online Video, Trams in and around Manchester, c) 2000

SHMD itself had two tram depots, one at Stalybridge and another at Hyde. The former closed in 1938 as the area was converted to trolleybuses, but the little depot at Hyde struggled on for the duration with 6 deteriorating cars and two routes to Stockport and Gee Cross. Ian Yearsley takes up the story in his inimitable style :-


Ian Yearsley & Philip Groves, The Manchester Tramways, Transport Publishing Company 1988 ISBN 086317 144 3

Here’s an SHMD balcony car in Stockport in 1937, with the local (Stockport Corporation) tram depot in the background :-


Ian Yearsley, The Manchester Tram, The Advertiser Press (Huddersfield), 1962

And at the little depot at Hyde :-


Ian Yearsley, The Manchester Tram, The Advertiser Press (Huddersfield), 1962

But as the second world war loomed, conversion from trams to trolleybuses was under way on Manchester’s Eastern corridors :-


Bob Rowe, Ashton & Manchester’s Trolleybuses, Super Prestige, Venture ISBN 978 1905 304 13 7

Here’s a posed photograph shortly after the final closure in 1945 :-


Ian Yearsley & Philip Groves, The Manchester Tramways, Transport Publishing Company 1988 ISBN 086317 144 3

Although many transport managers at this time favoured a straight transition to the motor bus with its flexibility and freedom from complicated infrastructure, municipalities were still keen to retain such a large customer for their electricity, still locally supplied in-house at that time. SHMD was no exception in proselytising the beauties of its clean power, with a touch of finger-wagging followed by the offer of psychological counselling . . .


Eyre & Heaps, ‘The Manchester Trolleybus’, Ian Allen ISBN (10) 0 7110 3245 9

So double wires became the New Order of that pre-war dawn, and it had originally been the intention of the Stalybridge Hyde Mossley and Dukinfield Joint Board to run green trolleybuses of its own. The consortium went as far as erecting two discrete sections of (notoriously slack!) wiring in its own area on silver poles, seen here to good effect in about 1960 outside the Railway Station with its impressive porte-cochére (or is it a rotunda?) :-


Tameside Image Archive http://www.tameside.gov.uk/history/archive.php3

Someone will know, but from the diagram it looks to me as though SHMD actually had more revenue wiring than Ashton . . . . However, the intervention of World War II meant that green trolleybuses became another of those pipe-dreams which never came to fruition. Services on the Eastern corridors were therefore operated jointly by Manchester and Ashton Corporations, but in order to aggregate service levels with patrimony mileages, 216 Stalybridge to Stevenson Square via Droylsden was invariably operated exclusively by Manchester Corpy. The 218 Stalybridge to Piccadilly via The Snipe; the 219 Ashton to Piccadilly via Guide Bridge, and the 217 from Ashton to Haughton Green were proportionately split between the reds and the blues. I am not sure what financial arrangements obtained in relation to the SHMD wiring: it seems to have been a matter of some dispute, even continuing after closure on 30 December 1966 when no-one appeared to take responsibility for its removal! Ashton’s depot at Mossley Road was a good half-mile ‘off-route’ of any revenue wiring, and must have involved a fair bit of dead mileage . . .


Eyre & Heaps, ‘The Manchester Trolleybus’, Ian Allen ISBN (10) 0 7110 3245 9

Spookily, if the Metrolink to Stalybridge does come about as suggested, it will carry paying passengers along this very route . . . !



Stephen Lockwood, Manchester & Ashton Trolleybuses, Classics, Middleton Press ISBN 9781 906008 73 4


C Taylor, Trolleybuses in Greater Manchester, MTMS ISBN 0 900857 42 2


Bishop & Keeping, British Trolleybuses in Colour, Fonthill ISBN 978-1-78155-450-0

All three authorities on the Eastern flank had their own separate service vehicles. Here is the SHMD green Thornycroft tower wagon just beyond the railway bridge at Hyde :-.


Bob Rowe, Ashton & Manchester’s Trolleybuses, Super Prestige, Venture ISBN 978 1905 304 13 7

Manchester 1341 heads out of Ashton, I think in about 1960 :-


Thanks Freel07, c) Steve Hyde

In the same decade Ashton 87 waits out its layover at Stalybridge Bus Station among the ‘green linnet’ motor buses of the Joint Board :-


Eyre & Heaps, ‘The Manchester Trolleybus’, Ian Allen ISBN (10) 0 7110 3245 9

Here’s a few shots from 1962: trolleybuses on the route out West from Stalybridge towards the city :-


Stephen Lockwood, Manchester & Ashton Trolleybuses, Classics, Middleton Press ISBN 9781 906008 73 4

The reversal of the loop via Market Street and Waterloo Road after the opening of the new Bus Station on King Street in 1959, introduced a new diamond crossover in the wiring near the railway bridge :-.



Eyre & Heaps, ‘The Manchester Trolleybus’, Ian Allen ISBN (10) 0 7110 3245 9

Looking the opposite way from the same point, the diamond crossover itself is just cut off at the top of this pic :-


Stephen Lockwood, Manchester & Ashton Trolleybuses, Classics, Middleton Press ISBN 9781 906008 73 4

In this shot from July 1964 the silvery-grey ohle poles stand out more clearly, as does the lower-quadrant semaphore :-


Bishop & Keeping, British Trolleybuses in Colour, Fonthill ISBN 978-1-78155-450-0

Onwards and upwards :-


Stephen Lockwood, Manchester & Ashton Trolleybuses, Classics, Middleton Press ISBN 9781 906008 73 4

Stalybridge seems to have adopted the quaint practice of combining street lanterns with the ohle, a practice also later to be adopted in certain places by Metrolink (with less of a portmanteau impression!) Thompson Cross is actually out of sight beyond the background of this shot :-


Stephen Lockwood, Manchester & Ashton Trolleybuses, Classics, Middleton Press ISBN 9781 906008 73 4

Facing the other way, Ashton 89 has just passed the foot of Beaufort Street heading East at Stamford Square, lights full on in the damp twilight :-


Eyre & Heaps, ‘The Manchester Trolleybus’, Ian Allen ISBN (10) 0 7110 3245 9

And in typical Lancashire weather, Manchester 1329 picks up at Stamford Square on the County boundary, heading West for the big city in 1963. From here, the trolleybuses would have continued straight along Stamford Street into the heart of Ashton, not so easy nowadays due to the more recent by-pass arrangements at Park Parade. However, now the two boroughs find themselves in the same Metropolitan area, the recent Metrolink proposal aspires also to serve Tameside Hospital on the North side of the park, which if it ever happens will necessitate a slightly more convoluted route in this area. Six years after this rainy day, the trolleybuses came to an end on 30 December 1966 :-


Stephen Lockwood, Manchester & Ashton Trolleybuses, Classics, Middleton Press ISBN 9781 906008 73 4

Stamford Square is at the foot of Mellor Road by The Sycamore pub, seen here from the same point one year later, now only five years before closure – but it may be that Metrolink will one day have to round this corner of Stamford Park . . .


Eyre & Heaps, ‘The Manchester Trolleybus’, Ian Allen ISBN (10) 0 7110 3245 9

So from 1967 it was all motor buses – there were plenty of green linnets with eye-level windows you could see out of when having to stand!! But in 1969 came SELNEC (South East Lancashire North East Cheshire). With its ubiquitous orange and cream buses right across the conurbation, it was the first of a series of amalgamations involving top-down regional policy cascades. And so, the days of local community co-operation, so ably demonstrated for ¾ of a century by these four little towns, scattered across two historic counties under the backbone of England, came to an end. Their vertiginous livery can now only to be seen in the Manchester Transport Museum at Boyle Street (Queen’s Road) and the only verdant green hereabouts is in the ruggedness of the surrounding countryside :-



Eventually the four towns found themselves amalgamated into Tameside along with several others in the metropolitanisation of 1974. In transport terms more radical ruptures were to follow in the subsequent decade, but that’s a story for another time! :-


Reg Wilson, Municipal Buses in Colour, Ian Allen ISBN 0 7110 2544 4


D Scott Hellewell, SELNEC a 40th Celebration, Venture ISBN 978 1905 304 33 2

So for the last fifty years, the only railed transport through Stalybridge has been the main line to Yorkshire up above - an important enough interchange and intersection, sufficient of course to warrant a major story of its own. Here’s a couple of pics by Jeffrey Wells – yet another story of course is the magnificent buffet bar with all its railwayana, paraphernalia and memorabilia, not to mention prize-winning ale, sorry, no time to go there!! :-


Jeffrey Wells, Miles Platting to Diggle via Ashton, Book Law ISBN 1 899624 18 X


Jeffrey Wells, Miles Platting to Diggle via Ashton, Book Law ISBN 1 899624 18 X


Jeffrey Wells, Miles Platting to Diggle via Ashton, Book Law ISBN 1 899624 18 X

But on the roads below, the internal combustion engine has been the exclusive order of the day for the last 50 years. The original plans for Metrolink in this area would also have taken the trams on existing segregated railways to Glossop via Guide Bridge, avoiding both the major traffic centres of Ashton and Stalybridge. But since the plans for a new terminus in Ashton centre were first mooted in the early 1990s, suggestions of a further extension to Stalybridge have cropped up with some regularity. Between 2004 and 2010 Tameside Council was preoccupied with the uncertain status of Metrolink Phase 3, and later with the search for funding for the Phase 3b line beyond Droylsden. Once signed off for Ashton, however, preoccupations moved to the redesign of the Civic Centre and transport interchange, and public glimpses of the back burner would often reveal the continuing possibility of trams to Stalybridge.


Tameside Reporter, 10 October 2013

These became more elaborate each time the plans were opened out for consultation :-



Looking at the plans for the new bus station, it’s amazing how much can be gleaned from a couple of thin short lines, top centre :-



Next time the lines were extended just a little bit further East . . .



Earlier, evidently rejected plans appear to have envisaged moving the whole Interchange across to encompass the railway station, and with a preponderance of tramstops through the civic and retail areas. I’m not sure why the line becomes dotted at Penny Meadow, but local people would surely attest that through East Manchester and Tameside, a tram service to Stalybridge at ‘walk-on’ frequencies would have much to offer :-





The final plans went out to public consultation in September 2015 (no sign of the Metrolink extension - not on the table just now but still very much on the back burner, and the passive provision is evident . . . )



Thankfully, the plans appear to improve pedestrian access between all the town centre amenities, woefully inadequate at present :-



The next conundrum, of course, will be the route alignment between Ashton and Stalybridge. It clearly makes sense to incorporate access to the major passenger draw of Tameside Hospital (right of top centre here), a large facility currently choked by parking problems and having lost many of its local bus links due to the austerity cuts. In any event, the whole line will have to be on-street in the traditional sense, at a length approximating to similar sections along East Manchester or Eccles New Road – with all the associated construction heartaches we remember so well! But the omelette was well worth it in the end . . . I think it was flange who posted this suggested route alignment a couple of years back :-


Thanks flange

It seems to be the most sensible solution – I would just question whether Astley Road is wide enough to carry a two-way tramway? If not, I would suggest a gyratory loop involving Mellor Road, as with a single line contraflow there would be nowhere for trams to wait their turn out of the way of other traffic. A third possibility would be further East via Ridge Hill Lane, but this would involve the bad snatch into Rassbottom Street which may not be feasible. . . .


Geographer’s A-Z Big Manchester 2009

Anyway, in August 2015 I thought I would have a look at the layout of the routes on the ground, and took a walk from Ashton to Stalybridge. Starting out from the tram terminus, Freel’s excellent shot shows 3099 about to depart on its 90 minute circuitous journey to the Northern reaches. Behind rises the ‘Pill Box’, the local moniker for the 1970s Tameside Council House, already boarded up for demolition as part of the massive regeneration of Ashton Town Centre :-


Thanks Freel07 c) Steve Hyde

February 2016, down she comes! :-



Even the terminal totem flag seems to nod importunately towards the East – so off we go by the big red bus :-



In passing, we catch a glimpse of the unsatisfactory pedestrian flow which currently exists between the Interchange and the markets, etc. Passengers have to emerge from the Bus Station down a little passage (behind the dog here - sometimes closed, when the route would have to follow the pedestrians in the foreground). It is then necessary to cross the traffic lanes at the foot of the car park ramp, to gain the pedestrianised Warrington Street behind the red van :-



Warrington Street itself has been the only option when the shopping mall is closed, a gloomy enough canyon even in the sunshine with the market at the far end. Once the Council offices are gone (boarded up, left) it will be a sigh of relief if access to the market and town centre is opened up . . .



The completion of the Ashton Northern By-Pass, seen here in May 2012, has been of great benefit to the projected viability of a Stalybridge extension, as it has enabled Wellington Road, veering off to the right here, to become a bus lane – and ergo ripe for a segregated tramroad. This is the nearest point to the Railway Station on the left, and it has to be said road crossings and pedestrian access for interchange are very, very poor in terms of safety. (Basically, press the button and run for your life, except that on Turner Lane under the bridge, there is no button to press!) Hopefully, this will also be sorted under the new plans :-



Ashton Station in 2012 with the old orange ‘M’ logo :-



Back to Wellington Street :-



Which does seem ideal for a tramway now other traffic has gone :-





Looking back in the dark shadow of the soon-to-be-gone Pill Box :-



The earlier plans indicated a stop in the vicinity of the Market Square, which despite being quite close to the transport interchange would still seem to be appropriate here, in order to assist pedestrian flows. Moreover, as we swing to the left here up into Penny Meadow, I guess as a further stop is unlikely before the Hospital a good mile away. (In my observation, those triple-arch windows are very typical of Ashton . . . )



The back of the Market Hall is here on the right :-



Thankfully, the Victorian buildings are not to be demolished – just the 1970s Pill Box top right :-



All in all, I think an extension to Stalybridge would therefore be of equal benefit to Ashton Centre as well :-



Here we start the ascent of Penny Meadow :-





With its rows of independent businesses and retailers (another characteristic of Ashton-under-Lyne in my observation) it reminds me a bit of Drake Street, Rochdale :-



At the top, the Ashton Northern By-pass now comes in to re-join us from the left. As with many road extensions, has it been a case of simply moving the traffic jam a bit further along . . . ?



The same spot looking back towards Ashton, with the by-pass and railway on the right :-



This next impressive building along the route, making quite a dramatic statement in its own way, used to be the Albion School. (My guess would be neo-Byzantine, but no doubt Train Guard will sort me out on the architectural aspects!) Our good friend Mr Freel (Steve Hyde) tells us that the 150 year old school was :-
Quote:
. . . associated with Albion United Reform Church sited down on Stamford Street near the telephone exchange building. Both are elaborate buildings and were obviously intended to make quite a statement. My paternal grandparents were associated with the church and the Hyde family house (of my great grandparents) stood behind the church on Queen Street where the Indian Ocean Restaurant now stands. As far as I know the school building was used as both day and Sunday school. The history link says it was still in use as day school until comprehensive schools came along.
http://albionurc.org.uk/the-history-of-albion-school :-
P1140062 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

Looking back towards Manchester, it’s amazing what you can still see, even from this distance!! :-



At this point the line will cross over the Yorkshire railway, sooner or later to be electrified :-



Penny Meadow now becomes Crickets Lane as we continue to climb :-



And then at the foot of Mossley Road we encounter an old friend – the original tram and trolleybus depot of Ashton Corporation (here looking back towards town) :-



Ah, for those heady days once again . . . !





Between two pubs, we now approach the junction with Darnton Road, just before Tameside Hospital, where we will turn right :-



In Darnton Road itself, with the Hospital on the left, space for a stop is needed. Might the sixth-form college be persuaded to part with a bit of its verges . . . ?







Or failing that, there is quite a bit of spare land adjacent to the side gate of the hospital grounds opposite . . .









Continuing along Darnton Road we pass the North side of Stamford Park, with its attractive boating lake across the road :-





It did occur to me that the route might continue along Darnton Road and Ridge Hill Lane, possibly with a further tramstop in this residential area near St. George’s Street . . . ?


Geographer’s A-Z Big Manchester 2009

However, this route may not be feasible, as it would overshoot Rassbottom Street to the East and involve the very tight reverse snatch at its junction with Stamford Street. But we may as well have a look at it anyway – continuing along Darnton Road we come to the junction of Ridge Hill Lane, a gentle swing down to the right :-





Looking back from the terraced houses by the Fox Tavern, could a tramstop fit in this area? :-



Ridge Hill Lane looks just about wide enough for a double track and parking bays :-



Another sweep to the right on to Stamford Street would actually mean heading back towards Ashton for a few yards, before following the sign to the Railway Station & Town Centre of Stalybridge :-



Then comes the major snag – what would be a hairpin snatch down into Rassbottom Street, as evidently happened in days of old as we saw before :-


Tameside Image Archive http://www.tameside.gov.uk/history/archive.php3

But could a modern LRV make such a tight turn down this way, possibly maximising the radius by use of a single line as at Drake Street/Smith Street in Rochdale? I wouldn’t like to say, but I’m sure a major re-configuration of the junction would be necessary in any event . . . !



As mentioned, the ancient cross has now been moved further West, probably when the layout was last altered :-



But if it’s not possible for LRVs to access Rassbottom Street from the East, that leaves us only with Mellor Road and Astley Road as possibilities, neither of which in my amateur observation seems wide enough for a double tramway :-


Geographer’s A-Z Big Manchester 2009

Let’s have a look at them individually – Mellor Road (off bottom left) has a broad enough junction with Darnton Road at the top, opposite another entrance to Tameside Hospital :-



But as we descend on the West side of Stamford Park, there are existing yellow lines and parking is already restricted to one side only :-





Tight and bendy, innit? I don’t think you could have 2-way trams down here . . . ?



Approaching the main road at Stamford Square :-



Again, the junction seems broad enough for a 90 degree turn around the park gates, towards the camera then off to the right :-





Safely back on the main road and the old county boundary, heading East we look back at Stamford Square, as in the old trolleybus photo :-



Approaching Thompson Cross, at the South-East corner of Stamford Park we encounter the other candidate (imo) for a single line tramway – Astley Road :-


Geographer’s A-Z Big Manchester 2009

Let’s bob back up this one towards Darnton Road and have a look :-



Well, there has been a bus up here at some time, although the stop is out of use at present :-



The preponderance of parked vehicles is probably abnormal as there was some kind of family fun day going on in the park at the time of this photo :-



Take away the cars, and Astley Road seems a bit wider than Mellor Road :-



Again, the junction seems wide enough around by the coaches on Darnton Road ready to head back towards Ashton :-



So on balance, if Ridge Hill Lane is not feasible my favoured solution would be a gyratory loop with outbound trams descending Astley Road and inbound climbing Mellor Road. This arrangement would also save on the need for any points or special work. Anyway, we finally come to descend the famous Rassbottom Street brow, following in the well-worn tracks of trams and trolleybuses in years gone by :-













Trans Pennine Express and no more semaphores. “Stalybridge Centre” on the bus stop - I like that (Wythenshawe and Rochdale please take note . . . !) :-





Looking down Market Street, the Bus Station at King Street is on the left beyond the white van – I guess this would be the most likely terminus for Metrolink, running two-way along Market Street with pale blue poles, the Tameside ident colour for Stalybridge :-





However, Waterloo Road still plays a significant role in public transport matters, and some buses use it to avoid the bus station altogether, using Armentiéres Square as an interchange :-



Well, I suppose it’s a very nice spot for a pipedream . . .



. . . on the banks of the Huddersfield Narrow . . .





Will it ever happen? . . . Well, pipe dreams have happened before . . . and no doubt they will again . . . !!!



Now this is getting ridiculous! :-

Quote:
Originally Posted by r02bapurdie View Post
And here is the one that got away . . .


Eyre & Heaps, ‘The Manchester Trolleybus’, Ian Allen ISBN (10) 0 7110 3245 9

JOHNNY'S BIG BANG

Well this has been the history of the East Manchester Line of Metrolink. And here is an end of it!



Johnny’s Big Bang

JBB Homepage https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...&page=250#5000
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Old January 4th, 2010, 01:50 AM   #2002
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Ok, its far from perfect, but I thought I better have a go, if all it does is go someway to making up for using 'eccles' 'metrolink' and 'urgency' in the same sentence... and yes all I've done is bastardise the metrilnk map in paint...

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Old January 4th, 2010, 02:05 AM   #2003
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Originally Posted by iheartthenew View Post
Ok, its far from perfect, but I thought I better have a go, if all it does is go someway to making up for using 'eccles' 'metrolink' and 'urgency' in the same sentence... and yes all I've done is bastardise the metrilnk map in paint...

This is better, but I think it would be good to split line 1 into 2 to differentiate between services that run via Piccadilly Gardens as opposed to on the Second City Crossing.

Also, once the Second City Crossing is built, surely there would be no benefit in running line 1 services from Mosley Street to Market Street without going via Piccadilly Gardens/Piccadilly?
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Old January 4th, 2010, 02:11 AM   #2004
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I was thinking along the (northern) lines of "this is an Edgeware service via Bank" but "this is an Altricham service via Cross St" Yes/No?
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Old January 4th, 2010, 02:16 AM   #2005
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Originally Posted by iheartthenew View Post
I was thinking along the (northern) lines of "this is an Edgeware service via Bank" but "this is an Altricham service via Cross St" Yes/No?
Seems a bit confusing (saying this as someone who has several times forgotten which northern line branch I was on despite the announcement).

Also I'm not sure how your routes would survive the introduction of Airport and Didsbury services?
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Old January 4th, 2010, 02:23 AM   #2006
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Mmm, the map on the stop has changed again from the 'final' one in the paper. It now shows the oldham bypass, also on that map the indicating of interchanges without seperating lines seems a bit meaningless.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 02:44 AM   #2007
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points taken:

Leeds No1, I should have taken the curve out on line 1 between Mosley and Market streets. Whats the cartographical equivalant of a typo?

Che, hows about making lines 1 + 3 via Cross St only, extending Line 3 to Didsbury and creating a 4th line from Victoria to the Airport via Piccadilly
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Old January 4th, 2010, 03:19 AM   #2008
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Here's another go then. Yeah its still not perfect but I'm tired, so I'm off to bed now... Zzzzz

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Old January 4th, 2010, 03:37 AM   #2009
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Ok when you get up in the morning, need to add Rochdale service via three oldham stations and a rochdale service bypassing those 3 stops. Also the Media city spur to Cronbrook though we have speculated it may go to Piccadilly once 2CC is operational.

I suppose then we have the question of to add or to add dotted the non-funded extensions: Airport Loop, Trafford Centre, etc.

Good work!
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Old January 4th, 2010, 03:53 AM   #2010
Leeds No.1
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Originally Posted by iheartthenew View Post
I was thinking along the (northern) lines of "this is an Edgeware service via Bank" but "this is an Altricham service via Cross St" Yes/No?
You could do, but you might as well make things easier and just have two lines to start with. The plan is to split the Northern Line by the way.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 04:38 AM   #2011
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Forgive me for not knowing the system and it's future as well as you do, but what about something like this? It's a quick knock-up in Photoshop, a few graphic 'typos' around and missing City Zone station names but you get the idea:

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Old January 4th, 2010, 05:45 AM   #2012
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A few recommendations:

Both the Altrincham and Bury lines have direct connections to Piccadilly at present and those won't get removed unless GMPTE want to create a riot, so 2 new lines need to go in there.

I'm confused why your Stockport and Rochdale routes have both a blue and a red line. Only one is necessary and I'd keep the blue line going via 2CC. Stockport already has a direct connection to Piccadilly by heavy rail, so a direct connection by tram isn't really necessary. Same with Manchester Airport too - it already has a fast heavy rail connection to Piccadilly, so you can make some room by removing that link on the green line.

Also, a last point about the Wythenshawe 'Loop'. I think there needs to be a terminus here, a la the Circle Line in London which is now no longer a circle, but stops at Edgware Road. For our map, I'd make the terminus Manchester Airport so both Wythenshawe routes end up there.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 09:38 AM   #2013
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Urgency on the Eccles line? When?
I wondered that too
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Old January 4th, 2010, 11:35 AM   #2014
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Thats pretty good No 1.

Word is that certain fellow Prestwich people on GMITA have raised their eyebrows at the swastika construction of that map.

Hence the new yellowman map presently growing at various Metrolink stations.

Ah if Senor Stephens was reading this, he be firing lyrical salvos right left and centre about "pretty maps" Ho!!!
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Old January 4th, 2010, 12:39 PM   #2015
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Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes View Post
Thats pretty good No 1.

Word is that certain fellow Prestwich people on GMITA have raised their eyebrows at the swastika construction of that map.

Hence the new yellowman map presently growing at various Metrolink stations.

Ah if Senor Stephens was reading this, he be firing lyrical salvos right left and centre about "pretty maps" Ho!!!
I have to say, I also spotted the 'swastika-esque' construction of the map. Didn't say anything as I thought it hadn't been noticed but evidently it has. On the note of swastikas, I was at the City Museum in Leeds a few weeks back and there was a mosaic you could do (for kids really but naturally I had a go). As I was building it, I realised it created a swastika... How do they get away with stuff like this?

Anyway, back to the point. The 'yellowman' map (is that its actual name) is better in the sense it doesn't have the swastika, but its usability is far worse. It wouldn't take that much redesign work to sort out the swastika-esque Metrolink map; there's no need for so many diagonals.

[IMG]I'm confused why your Stockport and Rochdale routes have both a blue and a red line.[/IMG]

Its simply picking up the point that it should be services that are shown, not the physical lines. In other words, the blue line is for services via Cross Street, where as a red line service would serve Shudehill and Market Street via St. Peter's Sq, Mosley St., Picc Gds and Piccadilly
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Old January 4th, 2010, 01:32 PM   #2016
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[QUOTE=Johnny de Rivative;49454533]
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The siding at Sportcity will in fact be a trailing crossover, capable of holding four trams or 2 double, according to the latest technical drawings I have . From Mcr, they would terminate at Sportvity-Velodrome, then reverse around the corner into the siding, located on the West side of Asda on a slope going down into the tunnel. They will then presumably wait there until after the match, then continue Westwards under the tunnel to the first picking-up point, Sportcity-Stadium in the Mcr direction. QUOTE]

I obviously read that drawing totally wrong when I saw it as it's the same one I saw some months ago. The trailing crossover is quite clear.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 01:37 PM   #2017
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image hosted on flickr


This is still my favourite network map that has ever been posted on here. (I'm pretty sure that it originally came from MarkO, if I'm wrong, apologies to the creator.) OK, so it doesn't have the 2CC, and the service patterns it illustrates might not be 100% accurate but the point is that this demonstrates how much clearer the map could be.

We know that what is shown on here as line 5 would in fact be two lines (rather services) - from Chorlton (eventually Didsbury) one would go as far as Shaw, and the other would go as far as Rochdale.

MarkO, taking this, the 2CC and extensions to Ashton, Rochdale town centre (inc Oldham bypass) and the Airport into account, do you think you might find the time to adjust this to post phase 3b? Pretty pretty please?

Big favour to ask, I know. I did say pretty please though....
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Old January 4th, 2010, 01:50 PM   #2018
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That's a good map- should be adopted for the future map (With the needed adjustments obviously).
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Old January 4th, 2010, 02:01 PM   #2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Priscilla QOTD View Post
image hosted on flickr

This is now my favourite, my attempts look so amatuer now... to include 2cc simply divert lines 1 + 5 via cross st....

Last edited by iheartthenew; January 4th, 2010 at 02:10 PM.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 03:00 PM   #2020
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Mapping issues

Yep that was my creation PQOTD (well my original idea - but executed by a guy with map-drawing talent & software called Robin Woods at Communicarta), but 4 for the support.

My intention on that one above was to concentrate solely on an in-car map that would fit one of the long thin panels above the doors or in a slot where the ads go. It seems that even if the new one currently on display (and posted on here by a few forummers) is a bit misleading (without routes etc), at least we now have a nicely designed starting point (that thing they had before in a myriad different typefaces was a bit shoddy really IMHO).

I'm quite sure there would be value in creating a portrait version too for posters on stations. And yes the swastika-esque extensions map which people have valiantly tried to adapt above, probably does need reworking for that rather unfortunate connection alone (also I proffer that the station names on an angle is a bit crap too).

Yes I would love to have a go at adding 2CC routes but what would be really useful right now is:

*Some confirmation from GMPTE of the routes hat will be on offer after media:city opens and also for 2011/12 for the other 3a lines.

* An idea whether or not route numbers or line colours would be preferred (and what they might be)

Have just put a request in to the press office for exactly that info which I will share with y'all so hopefully we may all have an answer on which we can all base our suggested maps.

It certainly would be most odd to try and operate 3a (let alone the full extent including 2CC etc) with nothing more for the traveling public than the destination blind on the front of the tram for any guidance as to where it was going to go. IMHO its an issue GMPTE have to address relatively soon or for sure there will be confusion!
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