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Old April 1st, 2009, 06:35 PM   #101
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The word "soccer" was coined in England, not in America. It derives from the abbreviation "assoc." In the same way that the word "breakfast" was turned into "brekkers", or the word "cigarettes" into "ciggies", "football association" became "soccer".
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Old April 1st, 2009, 06:47 PM   #102
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brekkers WTF??

It's an abbreviation a nick name, as you point out there. It is not the name of the game, and was never in favour as a name
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Old April 1st, 2009, 07:01 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Dru View Post
Why does France (65 million inhabitans *) have a low attendance in comparing with the Netherlands (16 million)? France is a strong footballnation and has big stadiums.
*62/63 millions
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
isn't it because there are lots of teams from tiny places in L1??

Like there is 1 team in each of paris, Lyon and marseille, un thinkable eslewhere in the world, no real proper local derbies (outside lille-lens)

That's because football and sports in general are much less popular here than in other countries of Europe. In France the extreme majority of people isn't interested in sports and there is here a very bad caricature of football fans (something like a stereotype of average man with narrow views, drinking beer and who can be often violent).

Although France hosted/hosts some great sport competitions (Olympics 5 times, FIFA world cup 2 twice, UEFA Euro twice, Roland Garros, Tour de France....) and although, two Frenchmen created the two greatest international sport competitions : Olympics and FIFA world cup.

There is not a big football culture like in UK, Germany, spain or the Netherlands, the people here begin to be interested in football when our national team plays a half-final or a final.

Quote:
Originally Posted by likasz View Post
Because many teams in L1 has stadiums under 20k.If we will take percentage of attendance, L1 is higher than SerieA

PS.In 5 years period Polish league will be on the 4th or 5th position
We will have many new big stadiums too, so French league will still have a better attendance than Polish League and maybe better than serie A.

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Quote:
The word "soccer" was coined in England, not in America. It derives from the abbreviation "assoc." In the same way that the word "breakfast" was turned into "brekkers", or the word "cigarettes" into "ciggies", "football association" became "soccer".
Cigarette: This is a French word !

About the way to name sports, we must give priority to the UK who created many (almost all) of them.

Last edited by parcdesprinces; April 1st, 2009 at 08:38 PM.
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Old April 1st, 2009, 08:15 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Spread out in what manner? Do you mean too far from the field because they didn't add a tier?
Spread out meaning that the third tier is really high up and far away from the action. All that noise just goes straight up, unlike RFK Stadium.
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Old April 1st, 2009, 09:04 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by en1044 View Post
I think we can call it what we want. We invented it, we have the right to name it. Cricket has nothing to do with bugs (yes i know where the name comes from), so what does it matter if we call it something that seems irrelevant?
Because another sport has that name... If it happened in 2009 it could be subject to all sorts of legal challenges, because it is wrong! Tort anyone?

Quote:
Before you go and criticize the game, saying we "bastardized" it, maybe you should go and read up on the history of the game.
The history ok, you adopted rugby football amd changed some fundamental aspects of the rules shortly after, then persisted on called it plain football...

Quote:
As a matter of fact, everyone should. We didnt go "Presto Chango! It completely different now!" The game evolved so slowly that we didnt really realize the difference between the games.
What, Football was a dinstinct sport to rugby, when you adopted rugby rules in 1876. Then as soon as you added the line of scrimmage in 1880 it was a different game to Rugby.

So in all reality you did go "Presto Chango! It completely different now!"

Quote:
At the time there were tons of "football" organizations...you should know that.
Not tons there were a few, but they weren't copies of each other, they were mainly either independent creations or different interpretations of the rules of football.

Gridiron is the american interpretation/evolution of rugby football(which might i add is rarely referred to as football), it should've been called american rugby (football), not american football.

Quote:
a matter of fact, Rutgers University claims to be the home of the first college football game ever, but the game they played was basically a soccer game (yes, I called it soccer, you have your fellow countrymen to blame for that)
No ignorance is to blame for that. All sports have nicknames, doesn't mean that's what they should be called

Quote:
Also, since our game was evolving at the same time as your football was, it was even harder to tell the differences between the two.
what, they didn't evolve at the same time, and the differences were clear.

Football and Rugby had defined themselves as different sports in the early 1870s, before your sport came into being. By 1873 Football had the foundation for the sport we have today.

Once again your sport was an offshoot of Rugby.

Quote:
American football, football...does it really matter what we call it to you?
It didn't then, it matters more now that we have this globalised world, and will matter far more in the future.

Quote:
Do you think we're going to say to our friend "Hey did you watch the American football game last night?" No, we arent going to say American, we're just going to say football.
Although that is not what i am saying, as far as i know the irish do, as they call football, football.

Quote:
For something thats been around as long as it has, I think football is a perfectly acceptable name for the game. You expect us to just all of a sudden change the name of our national sport? Seriously? Its football, whether you like it or not.
It's not football, whether you call it that or not. That is my point. I never asked you to change its name. The other guy said that when in canada i should call it football, and i say no because it isn't football.

Look i like gridiron, it's just not football, no matter what Sal Palaotino or Jim Rome say!
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Old April 1st, 2009, 09:10 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post


That's because football and sports in general are much less popular here than in other countries of Europe. In France the extreme majority of people isn't interested in sports
Why is that. It has always struck me about france too.

Quote:
and there is here a very bad caricature of football fans (something like a stereotype of average man with narrow views, drinking beer and who can be often violent).
LOL so the stereotype transcends national barriers.

Quote:
Although France hosted/hosts some great sport competitions (Olympics 5 times, FIFA world cup 2 twice, UEFA Euro twice, Roland Garros, Tour de France....) and although, two Frenchmen created the two greatest international sport competitions : Olympics and FIFA world cup.
do "fans" only care about each sport when they are on?

Quote:
There is not a big football culture like in UK, Germany, spain or the Netherlands, the people here begin to be interested in football when our national team plays a half-final or a final.
It's sad that, that is the case. Surely PSG are a lot bigger than their crowds suggest. I mean they should be able to at least fill the stade de france every week with all that population at their disposal.

Quote:
We will have many new big stadiums too, so French league will still have a better attendance than Polish League and maybe better than serie A.
Serie a is going up too. I have a feeling the prem will be number 3 again soon. In terms of crowds that is.
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Old April 1st, 2009, 09:32 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Because another sport has that name... If it happened in 2009 it could be subject to all sorts of legal challenges, because it is wrong! Tort anyone?



The history ok, you adopted rugby football amd changed some fundamental aspects of the rules shortly after, then persisted on called it plain football...



What, Football was a dinstinct sport to rugby, when you adopted rugby rules in 1876. Then as soon as you added the line of scrimmage in 1880 it was a different game to Rugby.

So in all reality you did go "Presto Chango! It completely different now!"



Not tons there were a few, but they weren't copies of each other, they were mainly either independent creations or different interpretations of the rules of football.

Gridiron is the american interpretation/evolution of rugby football(which might i add is rarely referred to as football), it should've been called american rugby (football), not american football.



No ignorance is to blame for that. All sports have nicknames, doesn't mean that's what they should be called



what, they didn't evolve at the same time, and the differences were clear.

Football and Rugby had defined themselves as different sports in the early 1870s, before your sport came into being. By 1873 Football had the foundation for the sport we have today.

Once again your sport was an offshoot of Rugby.



It didn't then, it matters more now that we have this globalised world, and will matter far more in the future.



Although that is not what i am saying, as far as i know the irish do, as they call football, football.



It's not football, whether you call it that or not. That is my point. I never asked you to change its name. The other guy said that when in canada i should call it football, and i say no because it isn't football.

Look i like gridiron, it's just not football, no matter what Sal Palaotino or Jim Rome say!
Like I said before, go read up the history.

You rally didnt post a single accurate fact in your post.

College football was in fact soccer here before it became what it is today, its a fact, you cant dispute it.
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Old April 1st, 2009, 09:54 PM   #108
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a) I enjoy a lot of you, but seriously. Do we really need to use board space bickering about such semantics as sport variations? *votes: No* Unless otherwise indicated assume a thread is sport exclusive, and while several sports share the name football they're not readily interchangeable, at least as this thread was intended. Please move on.

b) Poland will have to make HUGE strides to move into the upper echelon of avg. league attendance, for while several clubs may be at home in the 20-30k range I cannot fathom the league as a whole sustaining that over many teams and over many games. There's a reason the likes of Italy, France and the Netherlands remain at levels they're at now, and it's not entirely down to something as fixable as new venues or low ticket prices.

c) Similarly, France needs more than new digs to ramp up attendance. Yes, new stadia would help but many clubs in decent stadiums continue to avg. far less than capacity. It would help to see an end to Lyon's dominance, better still to see their teams perform better on European stages. What they truly need IMO, though, is for one or two other teams to step up their profile on the pitch and among the fans so as to become more appealing attractions. Casual fans will show up when the likes of ManU or Madrid come into town, but among French teams it seems there aren't as many polarizing clubs, or that the ones they do have (PSG, Marseille, Lyon) aren't as famous/infamous as they could be. Might also help if more of their native stars would/could stay home.
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Old April 1st, 2009, 10:24 PM   #109
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Guinness Premiership (Rugby Union)

(Current season average attendances - regular season only)

1. Leicester Tigers - 17,181
Welford Road Stadium

2. London Irish - 16,190
Madejski Stadium

3. Harlequins - 16,072
Twickenham Stoop Stadium

4. Gloucester Rugby - 14,233
Kingsholm

5. Saracens - 13,399
Vicarage Road

6. Northampton Saints - 13,213
Franklin's Gardens

7. Bath Rugby - 10,600
The Recreation Ground

8. Worcester Warriors - 10,294
Sixways Stadium

9. London Wasps - 9,206
Adams Park

10. Sale Sharks - 8,942
Edgeley Road

11. Bristol Rugby - 7,842
Memorial Stadium

12. Newcastle Falcons - 6,073
Kingston Park

Overall average - 12,025
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Old April 1st, 2009, 10:27 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
That's because football and sports in general are much less popular here than in other countries of Europe. In France the extreme majority of people isn't interested in sports and there is here a very bad caricature of football fans
Okay, thats explain why French clubs in general hasn't won a lot cups in comparing with Italy or Spain. Nevertheless France is verry good with their national squad.

Winners
ECI - ECII

Italy 11 - 9
Spain 11 -5
England 11 - 6
Germany 6 - 6
Netherlands 6 - 4
Portugal 4 - 1
France 1 - 0
Scotland 1 - 1
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 12:05 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by en1044 View Post
Like I said before, go read up the history.

You rally didnt post a single accurate fact in your post.

College football was in fact soccer here before it became what it is today, its a fact, you cant dispute it.
Actually my "rally" IS accurate, and you saying it isn't and urging me to read up, is just ad hominem on your part, as you can't actually refute with actual facts because you are wrong.

I never said original games of college football weren't based upon real football, however when they codified Gridiron, they based it on rugby, and that sir is a fact that you can't dispute!
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 12:19 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerJacket View Post
a) I enjoy a lot of you, but seriously. Do we really need to use board space bickering about such semantics as sport variations? *votes: No* Unless otherwise indicated assume a thread is sport exclusive, and while several sports share the name football they're not readily interchangeable, at least as this thread was intended. Please move on.
Fine by me, but we should make it clear that in international forums football should refer to real football...

Quote:
b) Poland will have to make HUGE strides to move into the upper echelon of avg. league attendance, for while several clubs may be at home in the 20-30k range I cannot fathom the league as a whole sustaining that over many teams and over many games. There's a reason the likes of Italy, France and the Netherlands remain at levels they're at now, and it's not entirely down to something as fixable as new venues or low ticket prices.
They have the population, and the love of football. They soon will have the stadiums too. The thing they also have is widespread corruption, that's the problem.

Quote:
c) Similarly, France needs more than new digs to ramp up attendance. Yes, new stadia would help but many clubs in decent stadiums continue to avg. far less than capacity. It would help to see an end to Lyon's dominance, better still to see their teams perform better on European stages. What they truly need IMO, though, is for one or two other teams to step up their profile on the pitch and among the fans so as to become more appealing attractions.
Europe doesn't have an effect on domestic attendances. They are separate.

Competitiveness is more important than having strong teams in Europe, Germany is the main example of this. They retain German players and their league is exciting.


Quote:
Casual fans will show up when the likes of ManU or Madrid come into town, but among French teams it seems there aren't as many polarizing clubs, or that the ones they do have (PSG, Marseille, Lyon) aren't as famous/infamous as they could be.
What makes you say that. It's the same case as it is elsewhere.


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Might also help if more of their native stars would/could stay home.
That i do agree with, but i doubt it will happen.
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 12:26 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Actually my "rally" IS accurate, and you saying it isn't and urging me to read up, is just ad hominem on your part, as you can't actually refute with actual facts because you are wrong.

I never said original games of college football weren't based upon real football, however when they codified Gridiron, they based it on rugby, and that sir is a fact that you can't dispute!
Facts? Oh, I already gave you those a few posts ago.

Its nice that there are people on these boards who find it their job to talk about things that dont concern them. Good job.
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 02:40 AM   #114
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don't lie, anyway that is me, i'm done
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 10:36 AM   #115
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Averages for National Rugby League (NRL) for 2008.....(Home & Away season only). All teams played 12 home and 12 away games.

Brisbane Broncos - Home 33,426 Away 15,104
Suncorp Stadium - 52,500

Canterbury Bulldogs - Home 15,352 Away 17,258
ANZ Stadium - 83,500

Canberra Raiders - Home 11,913 Away 13,229
Canberra Stadium - 25,011

Cronulla Sharks - Home 12,965 Away 14,053
Toyota Stadium - 22,000

Gold Coast Titans - Home 21,618 Away 15,136
Skilled Park - 27,400

Manly Sea Eagles - Home 13,694 Away 16,702
Brookvale Oval - 23,000 / Bluetongue Stadium - 20,119

Melbourne Storm - Home 12,474 Away 14,297
Olympic Park Stadium - 18,500

New Zealand Warriors - Home 11,440 Away 13,671
Mt. Smart Stadium - 26,500

Newcastle Knights - Home 18,750 Away 14,511
EnergyAustralia Stadium - 26,126

North Queensland Cowboys - Home 18,102 Away 14,222
Dairy Farmers Stadium - 25,000

Parramatta Eels - Home 13,528 Away 19,072
Parramatta Stadium - 20,000

Penrith Panthers - Home 10,899 Away 13,659
Credit Union Australia Stadium - 21,000

South Sydney Rabbitohs - Home 14,644 Away 16,819
ANZ Stadium - 83,500

St. George-Illawarra Dragons - Home 12,596 Away 17,707
WIN Stadium - 20,000 / ANZ Stadium - 83,500

Sydney Roosters - Home 13,970 Away 18,086
Sydney Football Stadium - 45,500

Wests Tigers - Home 16,386 Away 18,233
Leichhardt Oval - 22,000 / Campbelltown Stadium - 20,000

Last edited by HoldenV8; April 2nd, 2009 at 12:53 PM.
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 10:58 AM   #116
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Averages for Australian Football League (AFL) for 2008.....(Home & Away season only). All teams played 11 home and 11 away games.

Adelaide Crows - Home 40,678 Away 32,325
AAMI Stadium - 51,515

Brisbane Lions - Home 28,128 Away 28,621
The Gabba - 42,000

Carlton Blues - Home 48,589 Away 48,729
Melbourne Cricket Ground - 100,000 / Telstra Dome - 56,347

Collingwood Magpies - Home 59,213 Away 54,186
Melbourne Cricket Ground - 100,000 / Telstra Dome - 56,347

Essendon Bombers - Home 46,368 Away 48,552
Melbourne Cricket Ground - 100,000 / Telstra Dome - 56,347

Fremantle Dockers - Home 35,877 Away 27,762
Subiaco Oval - 42,922

Geelong Cats - Home 29,474 Away 46,635
Skilled Stadium - 27,000 / Telstra Dome - 56,347

Hawthorn Hawks - Home 39,976 Away 42,813
Melbourne Cricket Ground - 100,000 / Aurora Stadium - 23,000

Melbourne Demons - Home 30,777 Away 29,560
Melbourne Cricket Ground - 100,000

North Melbourne Kangaroos - Home 27,667 Away 34,160
Melbourne Cricket Ground - 100,000 / Telstra Dome - 56,347 / Carrara Stadium - 18,000

Port Adelaide Power - Home 23,842 Away 26,786
AAMI Stadium - 51,515

Richmond Tigers - Home 43,548 Away 41,452
Melbourne Cricket Ground - 100,000 / Telstra Dome - 56,347

St. Kilda Saints - Home 37,034 Away 34,951
Telstra Dome - 56,347

Sydney Swans - Home 32,834 Away 30,976
Sydney Cricket Ground - 46,000 - ANZ Stadium - 81,000 / Manuka Oval - 15,000

West Coast Eagles - Home 37,653 Away 31,251
Subiaco Oval - 42,922

Western Bulldogs - Home 30,275 Away 33,173
Telstra Dome - 56,347
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 12:53 PM   #117
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Averages for Hyundai A-League for 2008/2009.....(Home & Away season only). All teams played 11 home and 10 away games.

Adelaide United - Home 11,712 Away 13,652
Hindmarsh Stadium - 16,500 / Adelaide Oval - 33,597

Central Coast Mariners - Home 10,481 Away 13,652
Bluetongue Stadium - 20,119

Melbourne Victory - Home 24,512 Away 9,817
Telstra Dome - 56,347

Newcastle Jets - Home 8,134 Away 10,421
EnergyAustralia Stadium - 26,126

Perth Glory - Home 7,229 Away 12,565
Members Equity Stadium - 17,288

Queensland Roar - Home 10,738 Away 13,735
Suncord Stadium - 52,500

Sydney FC - Home 11,251 Away 15,186
Sydney Football Stadium - 45,500

Wellington Phoenix - Home 7,193* Away 9,806
Westpac Stadium - 34,500

* No crowd posted for 1 Wellington home game so averages on 10 games only.
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 05:14 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
They have the population, and the love of football. They soon will have the stadiums too. The thing they also have is widespread corruption, that's the problem.
????? Maybe in Italy but not in France (not more than in UK or Germany) !!!!

The fact is in France new stadiums willl change a lot of things because a new generation of fans will go at the stadiums which will be more confortable and more "entertainment" than today, the good example is Grenoble with their new stadium (since 2008, 20K) before the average was under 8K and since the opening of the new one the average was almost 18k, even in ligue 2.

Today many people in the country (from the top of the government) try to change our football in order to make it more competitive and the beginning is new stadiums and new tax laws !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Dru View Post
Okay, thats explain why French clubs in general hasn't won a lot cups in comparing with Italy or Spain. Nevertheless France is verry good with their national squad.

Winners
ECI - ECII

Italy 11 - 9
Spain 11 -5
England 11 - 6
Germany 6 - 6
Netherlands 6 - 4
Portugal 4 - 1
France 1 - 0
Scotland 1 - 1
French Clubs played in history 13 european Finals (EC1, EC2, EC3) but won only 2 (PSG EC2 1996 & Marseille EC1 1993) bad luck !!!!
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 05:44 PM   #119
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don't lie, anyway that is me, i'm done
Tell me where i lied.
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Old April 2nd, 2009, 05:45 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
????? Maybe in Italy but not in France (not more than in UK or Germany) !!!!
i was talking about poland, not france!!

Quote:
The fact is in France new stadiums willl change a lot of things because a new generation of fans will go at the stadiums which will be more confortable and more "entertainment" than today, the good example is Grenoble with their new stadium (since 2008, 20K) before the average was under 8K and since the opening of the new one the average was almost 18k, even in ligue 2.

Today many people in the country (from the top of the government) try to change our football in order to make it more competitive and the beginning is new stadiums and new tax laws !!
But will this allow you to keep your best players?? Even Germany does that, bar michael ballack...



Quote:
French Clubs played in history 13 european Finals (EC1, EC2, EC3) but won only 2 (PSG EC2 1996 & Marseille EC1 1993) bad luck !!!!
I remember PSG playing milan? in champions league semi final in the mid nineties and getting very unlucky.
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