[HR] Croatia | road infrastructure • Ceste & Autoceste

[bubach_hlubach]

Originally Posted by Manolo_B2

this is not a thread about politics, so move this discussion in the right thread!

but fact is, a motorway, called DALMATINA, should go trough Dalmatia, ant not Bosnia Hercegovina...

That surely explains it. Amen to that!

[snupix]

Originally Posted by Ban.BL

I am not provoking, i am just surprised (or maybe not) that you are so nationalistic about everything. It is impossible that you have issues with everyone surrounding you. In these posts here you can see big issues with BiH and no one here has any. But you are glad if there are any, and this is clear from your posts here.
Croatia´s attitude has lot of in common with Slovenia, they don´t care about you and your motorway same as you are happy to bypass BiH. But there is a difference, Slovenia don´t car, but you are happy with that plan. And then comes Albanian to give you support stating that BiH is too unstable

ANd you didn´t answer my questions where will motorway go if it bypass BiH?

Of course I am happy if I can come to Dubrovnik without crossing any border crossing and having issues with that! Isn't that normal? Call me a nationalist if that's your definition of it.

But, you didn't answer to my statement - we built (and are building) all the motorways to our neighbours, which is just the opposite Slovenia does. And I would be happy if Croatia built 200 motorways towards BiH. But I am also happy to come to Dubrovnik over Croatian soil, especially if I pay for the construction of the motorway! Isn't that normal? What are you trying to prove, after all? You're just trying to bash Croatia, it seems.

Where will it go through Croatia? I'm not a civil engineer nor a planner, but for the part until Dubrovnik there is enough space (and it is U/C, anyway, google a bit and you will find all the plans and maps), and for the part south of Dubrovnik, they may build a few tunnels. And as I said, I don't care, after Dubrovnik A1 can enter BiH, but border crossings should be regulated - for example just at exits, becaus eit would be stupid to have to cross two border crossings within 20km. It would lower the competetion od the AI motorway compared to the one in Serbia - the less crossings, the better.

[Verso]

Originally Posted by Manolo_B2

but fact is, a motorway, called DALMATINA, should go trough Dalmatia, ant not Bosnia Hercegovina...

'Dalmatina' also runs between Zagreb and Karlovac, not just through Dalmatia.

[ivan_ri]

Originally Posted by Verso

'Dalmatina' also runs between Zagreb and Karlovac, not just through Dalmatia.

because there is no Dalamtia betwin Zagreb and Karlovac. there is still Dalmatia in the part where BiH would like to make motorway

[Ban.BL]

Originally Posted by dubart

Ban.BL, how come you suddenly care so much of BiH?

It will go trough RS

Originally Posted by zezi

Slovenia want corridor to open sea - our sea
BiH wants also corridor to open sea + Ploče port - also ours
Serbia has still part of our land under occupation
Montenegro also want our part of sea - but we have agree to go to international court!

With Italy and Hungary we have no issues!
Ex Yu countries have lots of unsolved border problems, but puting blame on Croatia over it, it is just mean.
Sorry for OT

BiH wants corridor, and who exactly? Haris Silajdzic is not BiH, few minor Sarajevo politician are not BiH.
BiH doesn´t want Ploce harbor, BiH wants better conditions.
This part about Serbia holding part of land under occupation i will not comment.

Originally Posted by Manolo_B2

this is not a thread about politics, so move this discussion in the right thread!

but fact is, a motorway, called DALMATINA, should go trough Dalmatia, ant not Bosnia Hercegovina...

great argument

Originally Posted by ivan_ri

than what's the deal with this last demands?? if we are already building this motorway, and the one in BiH isn't even explored yet, why should we wait with connection of Dubrovnik to the national motorway network. we can not allow to depand on our neigbours when it comes to traffic connections if it is not necessary.

I am not saying that you shouldn´t build motorway the way you want it. I am just saying that for Croatia building motorway together with BiH on BiH soil is better solution in the long run for sure.

[Ban.BL]

Originally Posted by snupix

Of course I am happy if I can come to Dubrovnik without crossing any border crossing and having issues with that! Isn't that normal? Call me a nationalist if that's your definition of it.

But, you didn't answer to my statement - we built (and are building) all the motorways to our neighbours, which is just the opposite Slovenia does. And I would be happy if Croatia built 200 motorways towards BiH. But I am also happy to come to Dubrovnik over Croatian soil, especially if I pay for the construction of the motorway! Isn't that normal? What are you trying to prove, after all? You're just trying to bash Croatia, it seems.

Where will it go through Croatia? I'm not a civil engineer nor a planner, but for the part until Dubrovnik there is enough space (and it is U/C, anyway, google a bit and you will find all the plans and maps), and for the part south of Dubrovnik, they may build a few tunnels. And as I said, I don't care, after Dubrovnik A1 can enter BiH, but border crossings should be regulated - for example just at exits, becaus eit would be stupid to have to cross two border crossings within 20km. It would lower the competetion od the AI motorway compared to the one in Serbia - the less crossings, the better.

I am saying that nationalistic is happiness if you bypass BiH southern of Dubrovnik. That s nationalism. I am not trying to bash Croatia i am trying to make my argument that building motorway trough BiH is maybe better solution for HR.

And again you want to bypass BiH southern of DU with no reason and that is mean. Slovenia is not mean they just look only their interests. And what motorway are you building toward neighbor?

So you didn´t again answere my question, how will you bypass BiH southern of DU and why would you do that?

[snupix]

Originally Posted by Ban.BL

And again you want to bypass BiH southern of DU with no reason and that is mean.

Actually, from there on I don't care, but I said it might be better to go straight to MNE, since BiH really won't profit from a few km's, and it would just be a border control more, which is problematic for trucks etc. Nothing mean, if BiH sees its interest in the motorway from Dubrovnik going through BiH, no problem (but without Croatia financing it).

Originally Posted by Ban.BL

Slovenia is not mean they just look only their interests.

That's what they say, but I don't think it's okay.

Originally Posted by Ban.BL

And what motorway are you building toward neighbor?

For example, A5 south of Sredanci. We are just waiting for your side to complete your part. A3 is built up to the Serbian border, A2, A3 and A7 (as well as A9 U/C) to Slovenia, A5 is U/C to Hungary (also waiting for them), and A12 is planned when you reach Croatian border from BL. As well as A10.

Originally Posted by Ban.BL

So you didn´t again answere my question, how will you bypass BiH southern of DU and why would you do that?

I said, possibly tunnels. But, again, after Dubrovnik the motorway IMHO can enter BiH - I just think it would be a bad thing for trucks on the corridor, as we want the corridor to be a competition to the one in Serbia.

[Ban.BL]

Well you said it is better to go directly to MNE, and i ask you how it is possible to do that? It is not. As much as you want to bypass it is not doable.

"For example, A5 south of Sredanci. We are just waiting for your side to complete your part. A3 is built up to the Serbian border, A2, A3 and A7 (as well as A9 U/C) to Slovenia, A5 is U/C to Hungary (also waiting for them), and A12 is planned when you reach Croatian border from BL. As well as A10."
A5 is not being build it is future tense, same as the Slovenian motorway to Croatia, they also have plans. Same goes for A10 and A12.
A3 is built up not because of Serbia, but because it is in Croatia´s interest an building this stretch was not that expensive already one lane was finished in Yu times.
All other motorways toward Slovenia and Hungary is purely Croatia´s interest because of the tourism and not out of good heart.

[ivan_ri]

Originally Posted by Ban.BL

I am not saying that you shouldn´t build motorway the way you want it. I am just saying that for Croatia building motorway together with BiH on BiH soil is better solution in the long run for sure.

it's a bit late for that... it took years to plan this route. this discussion should have been done in 2005. because motorways aren't built out of nice words. it takes serious efort to make the documentation for one

[x-type]

A5 will certanly be built to BIH border as soon as there will be some signs of progress fron BIH side. the bridge will be built joined by HR and BIH side, so if there is nothing happening, both sides are guilty, not only one.
A14 from Okučani to Stara Gradiška - this year first plans were presented, so something is moving there too. i agree it should be built asap.

on the other hand, BIH could really upgrade its border crossings. Izačić and Orašje are ok, but other, especially Gradiška and Bosanski Brod are disasterous

[Ban.BL]

Again for all future tense, Slovenian motorway to Macelj will also surely be built and all other.
And as for A14 Croatia has promised to build bridge over Sava in Gradiska, but it is now sure that motorway on our side will be built and will wait for the bridge.
As for border crossing, it is not possible to build anything else in Gradiska and Brod coz you know that the crossings are in the city, especially in Gradiska. The solution could be joint control on Croatian side, same as there is joint control on Bosnian border crossing Izacic, because there is enough place on Croatian side.
Also Gradiska will get new b. crossing on the new place, as soon as motorway and bridge are built.

[DanMs]

Originally Posted by Verso

There is, but it's closed.

Why closed?

Adriatic-Ionian is the motorway of the century. Each country needs to invest its resources in building it.

[Verso]

Originally Posted by DanMs

Why closed?

Because it's placed in the defunct "Eastern Europe / Balkans" subforum, although I remember opening it in the "Urban Affairs" subforum.

[Ban.BL]

Originally Posted by DanMs

Why closed?

Adriatic-Ionian is the motorway of the century. Each country needs to invest its resources in building it.

Maybe for Albania and MNE, but not for the others

[X236K]

Same question as in Slovenian forum: how about the connection between Koper and A9? Any realistic plan? I've just noticed that A9 is being extended in some parts, is the whole road going to be extended? How about the Mirna viadukt?

[P.C.Dolabella]

Originally Posted by X236K

I've just noticed that A9 is being extended in some parts, is the whole road going to be extended? How about the Mirna viadukt?

Yes, whole road is under extension to four lane. From Pula to Kanfanar is planed to be finished before summer next year and from Kanfanar to Umag (and Slovenian border) a year later (2011.).
After that in the late 2011 is planed to start with construction (second lanes) of Mirna and Lim viaducts

[BosniaHerzegovina]

Originally Posted by x-type

A5 will certanly be built to BIH border as soon as there will be some signs of progress fron BIH side. the bridge will be built joined by HR and BIH side, so if there is nothing happening, both sides are guilty, not only one.
A14 from Okučani to Stara Gradiška - this year first plans were presented, so something is moving there too. i agree it should be built asap.

on the other hand, BIH could really upgrade its border crossings. Izačić and Orašje are ok, but other, especially Gradiška and Bosanski Brod are disasterous

Pa iduce godine ce se graditi do granice sa HR.

[Palance]

The Mirna-bridge:

[Ban.BL]

will they build hard shoulder?

[Euroboyy]

Where can I find map of Croatian highway network with toll-booths?