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Old August 5th, 2019, 09:44 PM   #1121
rjhart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoToIndy View Post
According to an old IndyStar article, CityWay had an occupancy rate of 98% in mid-2014.

Could have dropped a bit in recent years though.

The City Way apartments have long had complaints about noise from the railroad tracks. I'd bet that phase 2 construction has negatively contributed to the noise problems and persuaded some residents to not renew leases. If City Way is having occupancy problems currently, I'd expect that such issues will be lessened once phase 2 construction finishes up.

Hopefully they did a better job of sound-proofing the phase 2 buildings.
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Old August 5th, 2019, 09:53 PM   #1122
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The City Way apartments have long had complaints about noise from the railroad tracks. I'd bet that phase 2 construction has negatively contributed to the noise problems and persuaded some residents to not renew leases. If City Way is having occupancy problems currently, I'd expect that such issues will be lessened once phase 2 construction finishes up.

Hopefully they did a better job of sound-proofing the phase 2 buildings.
What is considered low in the multifamily real estate world? Downtown as a whole is at like 93-94% occupancy, right? How low could City Way be? What would be scarily low for any apartment building? Understanding that the last question depends on tons of factors.
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Old August 5th, 2019, 09:59 PM   #1123
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Originally Posted by rjhart View Post
The City Way apartments have long had complaints about noise from the railroad tracks. I'd bet that phase 2 construction has negatively contributed to the noise problems and persuaded some residents to not renew leases. If City Way is having occupancy problems currently, I'd expect that such issues will be lessened once phase 2 construction finishes up.

Hopefully they did a better job of sound-proofing the phase 2 buildings.
They may also attract the kind of resident who always wants the newest and trendiest apartment. In 2014 that was them but now there's 360 Market Square, Penrose, The Whit, etc.

If that's the case maybe it'll lead them to dropping the rent on their "older" units (it's funny calling 6 year old apartments old).

Edit: I also agree with Anodyne. I'm not sure what your definition of low is. Unless their average for the year is below 85% I'd say they're doing fine.
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Old August 5th, 2019, 10:16 PM   #1124
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They may also attract the kind of resident who always wants the newest and trendiest apartment. In 2014 that was them but now there's 360 Market Square, Penrose, The Whit, etc.

If that's the case maybe it'll lead them to dropping the rent on their "older" units (it's funny calling 6 year old apartments old).

Edit: I also agree with Anodyne. I'm not sure what your definition of low is. Unless their average for the year is below 85% I'd say they're doing fine.
95% is always the goal. I hear Cityway Phase 1 is hovering around the low 70's. If true that's not just low, its horrible.
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Old August 5th, 2019, 11:06 PM   #1125
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CityWay has reported over 90% occupancy ever since it initially filled up. Looks like they recently fell from around 97 to 94, but that's not bad when they're competing with brand new options.

No idea where those rumors would be from--maybe pre-leasing stats for phase 2?
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Old August 21st, 2019, 05:20 AM   #1126
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In one of the more extended cases that i can remember of "slow but steady eventually wins the race", there is this one small construction project on the east side of N. New Jersey street (between Market and Ohio Streets) that must have initially started its construction at least ten years ago. I noted it in the SSC pages way back somewhere in one of these threads. It was initially announced that the building was going to be a Mediterranean seafood restaurant.

They got about half of the building's framing done back around 2010 or so (kind of guessing) and then it got stalled for eight or nine years. I think about a year ago they started back up to finish the construction. Just drove by again recently and it looks like it is pretty much completed on the exterior. There were permitting papers in the front windows. It is pretty different looking for a restaurant. Kind of modern - although also kind of with an early 2000's style. Basically a fairly high ceilinged one story place with an extra tall, kind of different steel and glass entry way. (Somehow reminds me of - on a smaller scale - kind of a "Signature Inn, 1996" style.)

Although the description maybe doesn't sound all that great - I think it really could be a pretty unique and cool place. Also - between the Artistry complex, 360 MSA, and the E'laan, that neighborhood within a block and a half of this place - has seen about a thousand new apartments / condos in the last six, seven or so years. If it is still going to be a restaurant, it'll now have an even better nearby population to draw from.

Hopefully this place will soon have its ten year construction timeframe finally completed. If it will still be a restaurant, it'll be interesting to find out what type of place it will be. A Mediterranean seafood place still sounds pretty good - but who knows? More info to come. To be continued.....
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Old August 21st, 2019, 04:07 PM   #1127
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In one of the more extended cases that i can remember of "slow but steady eventually wins the race", there is this one small construction project on the east side of N. New Jersey street (between Market and Ohio Streets) that must have initially started its construction at least ten years ago. I noted it in the SSC pages way back somewhere in one of these threads. It was initially announced that the building was going to be a Mediterranean seafood restaurant.

They got about half of the building's framing done back around 2010 or so (kind of guessing) and then it got stalled for eight or nine years. I think about a year ago they started back up to finish the construction. Just drove by again recently and it looks like it is pretty much completed on the exterior. There were permitting papers in the front windows. It is pretty different looking for a restaurant. Kind of modern - although also kind of with an early 2000's style. Basically a fairly high ceilinged one story place with an extra tall, kind of different steel and glass entry way. (Somehow reminds me of - on a smaller scale - kind of a "Signature Inn, 1996" style.)

Although the description maybe doesn't sound all that great - I think it really could be a pretty unique and cool place. Also - between the Artistry complex, 360 MSA, and the E'laan, that neighborhood within a block and a half of this place - has seen about a thousand new apartments / condos in the last six, seven or so years. If it is still going to be a restaurant, it'll now have an even better nearby population to draw from.

Hopefully this place will soon have its ten year construction timeframe finally completed. If it will still be a restaurant, it'll be interesting to find out what type of place it will be. A Mediterranean seafood place still sounds pretty good - but who knows? More info to come. To be continued.....
I also recently noticed this building finally being finished up and meant to look it up. Streetview from 2018 shows what the exterior pretty much looks like.

The city's property card shows a sale in 2016 and the current permit applications date to 2017. Even the current owners aren't in much of a hurry!

The ILP indicates "Food Service" as the proposed use and the structural permit says "Blue Water, LLC" which could easily be the name of a seafood restaurant. It also indicates that the NW corner of the property is an outdoor patio with multiple notes of "existing basement wall below." If I recall from stories WAY long ago, they were planning to reuse the basement of a building that used to sit there.
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Old August 21st, 2019, 04:15 PM   #1128
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I also recently noticed this building finally being finished up and meant to look it up. Streetview from 2018 shows what the exterior pretty much looks like.

The city's property card shows a sale in 2016 and the current permit applications date to 2017. Even the current owners aren't in much of a hurry!

The ILP indicates "Food Service" as the proposed use and the structural permit says "Blue Water, LLC" which could easily be the name of a seafood restaurant. It also indicates that the NW corner of the property is an outdoor patio with multiple notes of "existing basement wall below." If I recall from stories WAY long ago, they were planning to reuse the basement of a building that used to sit there.
Google Street View shows quite the saga. In 2007 you can see two run-down one and two story sotrefront buildings. In 2009, the two story building on the north end is demolished and the basement is exposed. In 2011 the original buildings are all demolished and the new building is under construction, with the original basement under about 25 percent of the new structure.
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Old August 21st, 2019, 09:12 PM   #1129
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I took a look at the permit paperwork on the doorfront earlier today. It showed that the original building permits for the project were approved in 2009. Then in 2017, they had to get them "re-approved" or something like that. One of the papers mentioned the earlier 2009 approval, and then showed the newer 2017 approvals. Yes, I saw the name "Blue Water" on the paperwork. There is a "for lease" sign near the building - so maybe they are now looking for a new tenant. I like the idea of a Mediterranean seafood place - especially with a nice outdoor seating area. That may no longer be in the cards though if they are now looking again for someone to lease out the building. We'll see.
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Old August 24th, 2019, 02:45 AM   #1130
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Some great looking new murals have been installed on the CityWay 2 project. Along South Street, some realistic giant butterfly and moth images have been painted. They make a nice contrast with the two sets (one large, one small) of fantasy butterfly wings around the corner along Delaware St. They are set up with space between the sets of wings where you can stand and get photos / selfies taken.

The new brew pub in the old stable building is progressing well with the new additions. Looks like it likely has a few more months before it is ready to open.
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Old August 27th, 2019, 04:15 PM   #1131
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According to an article in today's IBJ, "[Metropolitan and Economic Development] Committee member David Ray was absent Monday evening, leading to the tie. The full City-County Council could bypass the lack of a recommendation from the Metropolitan and Economic Development Committee and still consider the proposal at its Aug. 4 meeting if it chooses."

So plans for the complex are not dead yet... just badly bruised
https://www.ibj.com/articles/tif-inc...ncil-committee

The project is out of committee now. Goes to full council, so I guess we're looking at a September dead/alive vote.
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Old August 27th, 2019, 06:51 PM   #1132
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I'm not sure what the solution is to the above. I agree I don't think the city should hold the risk on these developments. This lot has been vacant, or a parking lot for way too long. It was supposed to be developed decades ago as a condition for tearing down the Essex Hotel. The owner has gotten way to many extensions and variances for far too long. Something needs to be build on that sight and soon. My fear is if this thing becomes dead, it will be vacant for another 25 years.


ps.... there are several units now for sale in the 429 Park building next door to the north. I don't know if it's just a timing thing or people are wanting to get out before they loose their southern views. Those units were rarely listed.
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Old August 28th, 2019, 01:51 PM   #1133
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I'm not sure what the solution is to the above. I agree I don't think the city should hold the risk on these developments. This lot has been vacant, or a parking lot for way too long. It was supposed to be developed decades ago as a condition for tearing down the Essex Hotel. The owner has gotten way to many extensions and variances for far too long. Something needs to be build on that sight and soon. My fear is if this thing becomes dead, it will be vacant for another 25 years.


ps.... there are several units now for sale in the 429 Park building next door to the north. I don't know if it's just a timing thing or people are wanting to get out before they loose their southern views. Those units were rarely listed.
I think the solution is to fine the owner, not subsidize them. Come down hard on the out of compliance parking lot.

Also, did Andrew Luck already sell his unit in 429
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Old September 5th, 2019, 07:15 PM   #1134
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Ardmore - 9/4/19

Corner of Delaware and New York


Delaware looking North


Corner of Pennsylvania and New York
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Old September 10th, 2019, 02:48 PM   #1135
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The old Essex Hotel site project was approved by the CCC 20-5. After the initial vote, I thought there would be more pushback but apparently all the councilors against it were all on the same committee.

It's a good project imo. The height is satisfactory for downtown and pretty good at 11 stories. I'd like taller but 11 story developments are pretty good to improve downtown's skyline and definitely beats the usual 5 story developments. It'll also improve the American Legion Mall area.
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Old September 10th, 2019, 03:37 PM   #1136
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The old Essex Hotel site project was approved by the CCC 20-5. After the initial vote, I thought there would be more pushback but apparently all the councilors against it were all on the same committee.

It's a good project imo. The height is satisfactory for downtown and pretty good at 11 stories. I'd like taller but 11 story developments are pretty good to improve downtown's skyline and definitely beats the usual 5 story developments. It'll also improve the American Legion Mall area.
According the IBJ article it will actually be 13 stories. A little better but anything is certainly better than a parking lot for several more decades
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Old September 10th, 2019, 08:21 PM   #1137
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According the IBJ article it will actually be 13 stories. A little better but anything is certainly better than a parking lot for several more decades
In addition to the news that the project at 421 N. Pennsylvania St. is moving forward, IBJ also reports that the E'laan (on market street by Milhaus' Artistry and ongoing Grid project) was finally sold and the new owner is going through with Phase II. So it is being expanded to more than double its size -- from 24 to 70 units. Interestingly, it said the old units are being upgraded, in addition to new amenities being added. Those things are basically brand new, so maybe it's just to make everything uniform.

Market East is doing swell.
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Old September 11th, 2019, 01:15 AM   #1138
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At 13 stories, the development is even better and almost matching the old Essex which I believe was 15 stories. Reading up on the old Essex hotel over at Historic Indianapolis, apparently, the Beatles stayed at the old Essex hotel back in the 60's. I'm trying to picture that area had the old Essex not been torn down. A return of a midrise in that site will be very neat.

For the American Legion Mall area, there's still that parking lot north of the Scottish Rite that needs to be infilled. For Market East, the old City Hall is still a question mark. Is the city going to move there? I'm kind of warming up to a move (if they are moving) with perhaps a modern addition or tower on the parking lots? Just speculating on my part.
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Old September 12th, 2019, 10:48 PM   #1139
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Looks like the Essex was actually 14 stories and the Beatles was only thought to stay at the Essex and the band instead stayed at another hotel in Indy. Fans did go to the Essex when they thought they stayed there. They might have spread the rumor so the Beatles can be undisturbed at their actual hotel.

This new development at 13 stories would then come really close to the old Essex's 14 stories. I wonder if it'll match it in height if the ceilings are higher in some of the floors but I'll take the 13 stories. It's really close in stories or height to what was lost before.
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Old September 13th, 2019, 07:27 PM   #1140
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Looks like the Essex was actually 14 stories and the Beatles was only thought to stay at the Essex and the band instead stayed at another hotel in Indy. Fans did go to the Essex when they thought they stayed there. They might have spread the rumor so the Beatles can be undisturbed at their actual hotel.

This new development at 13 stories would then come really close to the old Essex's 14 stories. I wonder if it'll match it in height if the ceilings are higher in some of the floors but I'll take the 13 stories. It's really close in stories or height to what was lost before.
I missed this rendering and location. Would somebody please post both. Thanks!
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