Will the age of the car ever return? - Page 5 - SkyscraperCity
 

forums map | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Citytalk and Urban Issues

Citytalk and Urban Issues » Guess the City


Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 30th, 2013, 09:16 PM   #81
Dahlis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 837
Likes (Received): 107

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrissib View Post
Understandable if we look at how fuel prices doubled over the last 10 years.
But fuel consumption of cars was halfed as well. Thats still not the problem.

Its not about fuel prices or the enviroment, its about space.
Dahlis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old August 30th, 2013, 11:31 PM   #82
apinamies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: pääkaupunkiseutu
Posts: 1,002
Likes (Received): 921

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlis View Post
Not in the cities.
You forgot that there are developing countries where number of cars in cities have exploded in this decade.

If you think whole world number of cars is growing and quite fast.
__________________

blue_man100, Kenguy liked this post
apinamies no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2013, 10:55 AM   #83
Dahlis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 837
Likes (Received): 107

Quote:
Originally Posted by apinamies View Post
You forgot that there are developing countries where number of cars in cities have exploded in this decade.

If you think whole world number of cars is growing and quite fast.
I dont forget, but in the developed world we are going the other way. Wich makes you question if the developing world is going in the right direction or if they just want to be us in the 1960s.
Dahlis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old September 1st, 2013, 12:57 AM   #84
Rev Stickleback
Registered User
 
Rev Stickleback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,193
Likes (Received): 2616

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlis View Post
I dont forget, but in the developed world we are going the other way. Wich makes you question if the developing world is going in the right direction or if they just want to be us in the 1960s.
is there any evidence to suggest car ownership is decreasing?

is there even any evidence to suggest people are using their cars less?
__________________

blue_man100 liked this post
Rev Stickleback no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 1st, 2013, 01:43 AM   #85
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,294
Likes (Received): 11529

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev Stickleback View Post
is there any evidence to suggest car ownership is decreasing?

is there even any evidence to suggest people are using their cars less?
In some cities, absolutely. In some countries overall, well, that's more limited data.

Car ownership across Japan has decreased quite dramatically:

http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/029996.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/o...500.xml&coll=7

http://www.leftlanenews.com/japans-k...car-sales.html

There is further evidence that the coming generation are shunning cars more in other countries too - at least for the present. This is quite different to how things used to be in the past when having a car at the age of 18 in many countries was a "rite of passage".

http://www.renthomas.ca/attitudes-an...ingly-car-free

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/o...500.xml&coll=7

Most important was this article in the economist that shows declining distance travelled and the change in licencing in the US (in particular):

http://www.economist.com/node/21563280

From my own personal experiences - public transport does make up the majority of travel (along with active transport in the form of walking and cycling) in my city. Only 33% of journeys are completed by car. The car is already marginalised here, so I wouldn't really say that the age of the car is here as far as I am concerned.
Svartmetall está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2013, 01:14 AM   #86
apinamies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: pääkaupunkiseutu
Posts: 1,002
Likes (Received): 921

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
In some cities, absolutely. In some countries overall, well, that's more limited data.

Car ownership across Japan has decreased quite dramatically:

http://www.japanfs.org/en/pages/029996.html
http://www.oregonlive.com/business/o...500.xml&coll=7

http://www.leftlanenews.com/japans-k...car-sales.html

There is further evidence that the coming generation are shunning cars more in other countries too - at least for the present. This is quite different to how things used to be in the past when having a car at the age of 18 in many countries was a "rite of passage".

http://www.renthomas.ca/attitudes-an...ingly-car-free

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/o...500.xml&coll=7

Most important was this article in the economist that shows declining distance travelled and the change in licencing in the US (in particular):

http://www.economist.com/node/21563280

From my own personal experiences - public transport does make up the majority of travel (along with active transport in the form of walking and cycling) in my city. Only 33% of journeys are completed by car. The car is already marginalised here, so I wouldn't really say that the age of the car is here as far as I am concerned.
Picking some big cities with good public transport can trick you believe that age of car is over but most cities in the world don't have good public transport and cars rule them.

In Finland we have only one city where cars aren't most popular way to travel (Helsinki) and in Oulu city of less than 200 000 which is 5th biggest in Finland only few % uses public transport.

When live some big city you can lost your view you maybe don't see big picture (when I say you I mean people in general). Of course if want count only cities over 1 million inhabitants as cities then it can look different.
__________________

blue_man100 liked this post
apinamies no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2013, 10:18 AM   #87
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,294
Likes (Received): 11529

Quote:
Originally Posted by apinamies View Post
Picking some big cities with good public transport can trick you believe that age of car is over but most cities in the world don't have good public transport and cars rule them.

In Finland we have only one city where cars aren't most popular way to travel (Helsinki) and in Oulu city of less than 200 000 which is 5th biggest in Finland only few % uses public transport.

When live some big city you can lost your view you maybe don't see big picture (when I say you I mean people in general). Of course if want count only cities over 1 million inhabitants as cities then it can look different.
Picking big cities? These are nationwide trends that I have posted, not just cherry picking. Most of Japan is quite car-centric outside the major cities, and yet there is a trend for demotorisation across the whole country. Not only that, but the whole of the US is driving less according to the trends exhibited there (along with a load of other western countries). The declining uptake of drivers licences also holds with that trend too.
Svartmetall está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #88
Blackraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Makati (in the Philippines)
Posts: 2,313
Likes (Received): 243

I guess it depends on where you live and what are the attitudes and perceptions as well as the culture there.

For instance, in Japan, you could probably go around even if you don't have a car. The public transport network there works and is effective and has wide coverage.

Meanwhile, if you look at it from a US perspective, it is difficult to move around without an automobile.................unless of course you live in New York/New Jersey or District of Columbia.

Yet in Mainland China, even if they have train networks, car ownership is still on sky-high and there's no stop to it just yet.

So it really depends........

If there's one thing I could say:
I suspect that IF there is a reduction of car usage by younger generation people, then you can mostly attribute it to social media and technology. For some youngsters, they don't care about owning a car or driving or even getting a license.............as long as they get the latest smartphone (i.e. Iphone 5S, Galaxy S4, whatever) and have accounts on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and who knows what other social network application there is out there. Once they have that, then they're good.

----------------------------------
Anyways:


Where I'm from though (Philippines)

People who mostly use public transport here are those from:
-Lower income groups, students, blue-collar workers and minimum wage earners

The thing is though: The quality of our PT here sucks so bad (except for LRT Line 2). I mean seriously, other than our Purple Line 2 and probably the Green Frog Hybrid Bus line, the quality of our PT is sub-par at best.

Overcrowded trains (even outside of rush hour), pickpocketing, loitering, thieves brandishing knives and guns and robbing people while in a bus or a jeepney...........and heck, a few taxi cabs here aren't safe because some have a modus operandi wherein they join with syndicate groups to either rob the passengers or to take them hostage.

I mean:
Would you ask a Filipino millionaire/billionaire to just use our local public transportation every single day? Unlikely

Probably the only exception was when World-Renowned Filipino Boxer Manny Pacquiao rode a crowded train because the roads were flooded at that time and road traffic was at a standstill




Only as an exception or last resort

IMHO, there are currently only two public transport systems in our country that I really love or would at least use frequently:

LRT Line 2 (Purple Line)



Green Frog Hybrid Bus Line



Hence, this is why most local people dream of owning a car because they see it as a sign of economic progress and a sign of escaping poverty.

IMHO, it will take decades for the rest of public transport in the Philippines to reach an acceptable level.......
Blackraven no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 04:32 PM   #89
009
Registered User
 
009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,099
Likes (Received): 1132

Hopefully not
009 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 25th, 2013, 04:58 PM   #90
Haddington
Registered User
 
Haddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 112
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
In the UK our last burst of 'roadism' was in the late 80s / early 90s when the whole 'roads for prosperity' thing came about. Loads of cancelled 1960s plans where resurrected and built. But since then its been pretty quiet.

There are a few projects ongoing right now...near me its the re re re resurrected Manchester Outer Ring Road (Western Parkway as it was once know at some point)...altho as its the 2010s they have branded it the...South East Manchester Multi Modal Study Environmental Improvement Road...and reduced the plan from a full scale motorway to a 4 lane dual carriageway with cycle lanes, that no one will ever use!
In England maybe. However have a look at Glasgow 10 years ago compared with Glasgow now. In that time the 6 lane M74 has been ploughed into the city centre and the M80 completed to Stirling. Also the M8 missing link is finally about to be plugged creating at last a motorway link between Scotlands largest city and it's capital.

Quite ironic that all of this has happened / is happening in a city which has among the lowest rates of car ownership in western europe.
Haddington no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2013, 01:34 PM   #91
El_Greco
Épater la Bourgeoisie
 
El_Greco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London/Taipei
Posts: 19,502
Likes (Received): 10238

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
Would you ask a Filipino millionaire/billionaire to just use our local public transportation every single day?..
Why not? Is it really so below him to use metro?
__________________
My Travels : Barcelona|Edinburgh|Glasgow|London|Madrid|New York|Paris|Taipei|Vilnius
El_Greco no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2013, 05:41 PM   #92
Blackraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Makati (in the Philippines)
Posts: 2,313
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by 009 View Post
Hopefully not
Yeah I hear you about that.

I too am hoping for some improvements to our public transport system (similar to what is currently present in Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, Korea, Europe, etc.)

At least within my lifetime.

Unfortunately, at the current rate, progress here is extremely slow.

Heck, to even build a one station extension (of an existing line) TAKES YEARS here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco
Why not? Is it really so below him to use metro?
For a select few, they may be willing.

However, most of our corrupt Filipino politicians are.............well you get the idea
Blackraven no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 26th, 2013, 11:24 PM   #93
Dahlis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 837
Likes (Received): 107

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Why not? Is it really so below him to use metro?
And in a densly populated city it would be much faster to. So why not?
Dahlis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2013, 08:25 AM   #94
Blackraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Makati (in the Philippines)
Posts: 2,313
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlis View Post
And in a densly populated city it would be much faster to. So why not?
Hehe perhaps

But let me ask you this: Do you expect David Cameron and other UK Government officials to ride the London Underground railway (aka 'Tube') each and every single day they have to get to their offices/workplaces in Downing Street?

In the case of the Philippines, most of our public transport is full. Trains are too overcrowded (even during non rush hours) so in a sense, it's really hard for most politicians to use train services that are extremely overcrowded and that makes it hard especially when implementing security protocols.

With that said, I'm already figuring as to what kind of scenario will come up if Obama decides to just use Washington Metrorail every single day.

1) Secret Service does a sweep of every train station on the network
2) All US Federal Law Enforcement Agencies including the FBI, Department of Homeland Security and all relevant government security and law enforcement agencies (along with DC Police, Capitol Police, etc.) will be bound to cooperate under a unified security protocol just for this special purpose
3) SWAT teams will be on standby inside and outside stations
4) Secret Service agents will be present inside while traveling with President Obama inside any train
5) Police and other emergency vehicles will be on standby
6) Presidential vehicles will be traveling in proximity to help provide an escape route for the President and his entourage in case something goes wrong

And that's just part of the list



Now, you could probably do that in America or in some countries/territories............but to implement something like that in the Philippines is a pain-in-the-ass (for most government security agencies and law enforcement units here).
Blackraven no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2013, 11:49 AM   #95
Dahlis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 837
Likes (Received): 107

You cant compare the Prime Minister with some boxer.
Dahlis no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #96
poshbakerloo
***Alexxx***
 
poshbakerloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London, Manchester, Cheshire, Sheffield, Moscow
Posts: 5,134
Likes (Received): 315

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Why not? Is it really so below him to use metro?
People who don't have a car, mostly don't have one because they can't afford one. I say mostly as there are a few who 'don't need a car'.
__________________
"BEFORE WE MARRY...I HAVE A SECRET!"

I <3 London
poshbakerloo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2013, 12:30 PM   #97
Svartmetall
Ordo Ab Chao
 
Svartmetall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Past: Northampton, UK (19 years), Auckland NZ (7 years), Now: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 14,294
Likes (Received): 11529

Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
People who don't have a car, mostly don't have one because they can't afford one. I say mostly as there are a few who 'don't need a car'.
What utter nonsense. There are plenty, and I repeat, plenty of people who choose not to have the expense of a car. I work with a whole room of people who could afford a car, but choose not to have a car because with the costs saved they can go on holidays around Europe very comfortably and still have some savings. I know three people here out of the fifty or so that I talk to on a regular basis that have a car. The rest choose to have one.

If the choice between taking weekend trips around Europe and having a car comes up, I know which I would choose. Owning a car for many IS a choice and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with prosperity. Either that or Tokyo is poor.
Svartmetall está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2013, 01:41 PM   #98
Blackraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Makati (in the Philippines)
Posts: 2,313
Likes (Received): 243

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlis View Post
You cant compare the Prime Minister with some boxer.
Perhaps

But he is not just a world-renowned boxer. In our country, he's also a politician (thankfully he's not corrupt) and he's much more than that.

But yeah going into point.

There is a reason why in certain countries/territories, public transportation usage is not limited to socio-economic class or status.

I for one have observed that even rich people in Hong Kong (locals, expats, wealthy foreign tourists, etc.) ride Airport Express train.

Why?

Because:
1) It's world class
2) It's easy, efficient and effective (3 E's of a modern rail transport system)



Nevertheless, I think we can come to the conclusion that it's mostly a case-to-case basis. It's all relative.

Keanu Reeves would be a superb example of this:




Blackraven no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2013, 02:21 PM   #99
El_Greco
Épater la Bourgeoisie
 
El_Greco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London/Taipei
Posts: 19,502
Likes (Received): 10238

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
Do you expect David Cameron and other UK Government officials to ride the London Underground railway (aka 'Tube') each and every single day they have to get to their offices/workplaces in Downing Street?

With that said, I'm already figuring as to what kind of scenario will come up if Obama decides to just use Washington Metrorail every single day.
PM or President is different from some random rich guy, non? I can understand the need for a car if you live somewhere rural, but in the city? Fuel costs, Congestion Charge (in London's case), endless traffic jams, looking for a parking space etc. Sounds like too much hassle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
People who don't have a car, mostly don't have one because they can't afford one. I say mostly as there are a few who 'don't need a car'.
People that use public transport are failures? Lol!
__________________
My Travels : Barcelona|Edinburgh|Glasgow|London|Madrid|New York|Paris|Taipei|Vilnius
El_Greco no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 27th, 2013, 05:00 PM   #100
LtBk
Registered User
 
LtBk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Greater Baltimore
Posts: 3,234
Likes (Received): 4686

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svartmetall View Post
What utter nonsense. There are plenty, and I repeat, plenty of people who choose not to have the expense of a car. I work with a whole room of people who could afford a car, but choose not to have a car because with the costs saved they can go on holidays around Europe very comfortably and still have some savings. I know three people here out of the fifty or so that I talk to on a regular basis that have a car. The rest choose to have one.

If the choice between taking weekend trips around Europe and having a car comes up, I know which I would choose. Owning a car for many IS a choice and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with prosperity. Either that or Tokyo is poor.
I have seen people from my hometown making similar comments about people using mass transit in general. It's just ignorance and stupidity.

Last edited by LtBk; September 27th, 2013 at 05:08 PM.
LtBk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us