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Al Reem Island A natural island off the coast of Abu Dhabi island being developed by Sorouh (Shams Abu Dhabi), Reem Investments, and Tamouh


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Old February 1st, 2009, 05:57 PM   #81
Freestyler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Investoman_uae View Post
I disagree.... I think if people are capable of continuing the payments as long as the price is around 2000/sqft (not more).... then when the completion takes place.... in say 2 years time.... the property will be worth it.

If they cant continue the payments,..... due to the high value of the property.... then thats a problem.

I think Abu Dhabi is in a much better shape than Dubai.... and will be in an even better shape in 12 - 18 months.

Thats my 2 pennies.

Inv.
should be at least 1,800/psf then it should worth it. According to my calculations developers can take it down to 1530/psf including a decent profit with current construction costs.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 11:14 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Freestyler View Post
should be at least 1,800/psf then it should worth it. According to my calculations developers can take it down to 1530/psf including a decent profit with current construction costs.
I agree ,.... i bought at 1,824/sqft ... and am continuin with the payments... (well, tryin to raise some cash to pay for the next installment) but i am certain once its built... it will be worth it.

I guaranteed a 70% mortgage last week with the bank. A day after, they stopped givin 70% cos the developer is private and not master.

I am thinking perhaps in completion in October 2010... i can rent this one bed at 170,000... when i paid around 2 Million... thats a return of 8.5% ... (fingers crossed).... otherwise even 160,000 will be good.

The 1 bed is huge with sea view and has 1119 sq.ft. ... I just wish i could find the next payment right now ... ufff.

Inv.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:07 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Investoman_uae View Post
I agree ,.... i bought at 1,824/sqft ... and am continuin with the payments... (well, tryin to raise some cash to pay for the next installment) but i am certain once its built... it will be worth it.

I guaranteed a 70% mortgage last week with the bank. A day after, they stopped givin 70% cos the developer is private and not master.

I am thinking perhaps in completion in October 2010... i can rent this one bed at 170,000... when i paid around 2 Million... thats a return of 8.5% ... (fingers crossed).... otherwise even 160,000 will be good.

The 1 bed is huge with sea view and has 1119 sq.ft. ... I just wish i could find the next payment right now ... ufff.

Inv.
You are missing the service fee in your calculation and 160,000 ($3640 / month) is still quite high by global standards. If the rents come down in Dubai at a faster rate, then you will see the effect in Abu Dhabi as well. I have heard that service fee could be anything from AED 7 to AED 11 per square feet.

The other thing will be VAT. People have invested seeing the current rents, but if you pick the arabic newspaper you can see 1 bed ranging from 80,000 to 130,000. There are odd deals happening above that price, but with companies not paying for accomodation, the rents could fall further. Though when the market does rebound, the rents will be the first to move up. The current slow down has surely changed by perspective on returns and also views on Abu Dhabi. Its all good till oil is in demand, which might be for another 5-10 years. Post that if UAE does not have industries set up, then people will just drive to airport and fly out. This crisis has again reflected that till UAE does not build some connection with expats, they will just see them leave the country in hordes.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 07:49 PM   #84
Investoman_uae
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Originally Posted by whizkid01 View Post
You are missing the service fee in your calculation and 160,000 ($3640 / month) is still quite high by global standards. If the rents come down in Dubai at a faster rate, then you will see the effect in Abu Dhabi as well. I have heard that service fee could be anything from AED 7 to AED 11 per square feet.

The other thing will be VAT. People have invested seeing the current rents, but if you pick the arabic newspaper you can see 1 bed ranging from 80,000 to 130,000. There are odd deals happening above that price, but with companies not paying for accomodation, the rents could fall further. Though when the market does rebound, the rents will be the first to move up. The current slow down has surely changed by perspective on returns and also views on Abu Dhabi. Its all good till oil is in demand, which might be for another 5-10 years. Post that if UAE does not have industries set up, then people will just drive to airport and fly out. This crisis has again reflected that till UAE does not build some connection with expats, they will just see them leave the country in hordes.

My assumptions are based on a positive future for the real estate market in Abu Dhabi. I have seen what demand there is in AD... it is REAL DEMAND.... not some fake demand like in Dubai... they predicted millions to enter Dubai by 2010 forward.... thts what projects like Dubai Land were based on.... unrealistic and fake demand.

Anyways,... AD is the capital... it will remain stable for the future if not improve. Demand there is a lot higher than supply currently.

Oil will always be in demand.... the reason why its price is low is cos of low liquidity globally......everythin has gone down in price.... so once liquidity becomes available again. . .or its situation improves.... prices will rise.

I think UAE in general has alot to offer for expats than their home countries.... so if expats dont loose jobs and have stable jobs.... why would they want to leave? And leave to what? A worse situation back home??>

Inv.
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Old February 4th, 2009, 01:53 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whizkid01 View Post
You are missing the service fee in your calculation and 160,000 ($3640 / month) is still quite high by global standards. If the rents come down in Dubai at a faster rate, then you will see the effect in Abu Dhabi as well. I have heard that service fee could be anything from AED 7 to AED 11 per square feet.

The other thing will be VAT. People have invested seeing the current rents, but if you pick the arabic newspaper you can see 1 bed ranging from 80,000 to 130,000. There are odd deals happening above that price, but with companies not paying for accommodation, the rents could fall further. Though when the market does rebound, the rents will be the first to move up. The current slow down has surely changed by perspective on returns and also views on Abu Dhabi. Its all good till oil is in demand, which might be for another 5-10 years. Post that if UAE does not have industries set up, then people will just drive to airport and fly out. This crisis has again reflected that till UAE does not build some connection with expats, they will just see them leave the country in hordes.
I think rents will come down a bit in Abu Dhabi but not as the same rate as Dubai. But remember the slowdown in projects means they will build over a longer period, over 10 years more now. These will prologate the housing shortage in Abu Dhabi and keep rents up. The difference with Dubai is Abu Dhabi has the wealth to keep building in the short/medium term if it wants to.
Itís a good point you made about service charge this may be 1-3% per year.

UAE has no VAT and probably will not introduce it, although they may introduce income 5-10% tax in next 5 years.
You wrong will oil 'demand' I think you mean supply, and Abu Dhabi has oil supply at current production for 100 years. Oil Demand will always in demand as it is a scarce resource and demand is a factor of the global economy, which is a cycle of 8-12 years.
Oil wealth means that projects can continue and expat workers will be required to build these, hence the demand for rental property. The slowdown is healthy for Abu Dhabi as they can grow at a sustainable rate and focus on what the demand for units may be. I.e. they canít keep building high spec apartments as the property has to be affordable as well. The challenge is to use the oil wealth to attract and create diversification industries so that the economy can grow away from oil. Only then will there be 'genuine' long term demand for rental properties not just 'construction feeding construction' as in Dubai. By diversification I mean a skilled local population with skilled expats working in financial services, pharmaceutical, airlines, manufacturing etc. etc. and not just in construction and oil related industries as is the case now.


We will see....
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Old February 6th, 2009, 12:02 AM   #86
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Progress

Quote:
Originally Posted by kay jay View Post
Hi

Sorry to forward bad news to those who have bought on TT but when I was in AUH recently, I was informed that TT has been delayed by 1 year.

Anyone know any different?

KJ
Any update on TT Progress? We need to know completion date to properly judge whether good value for money or not.

Cheers.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 09:31 AM   #87
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According to their website, they are currently half way through piling.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 02:36 PM   #88
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they were half thru piling in May 08, reality is, there is slow or no progress. If I were you, I would stop paying them. You are wasting your money
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Old February 7th, 2009, 06:33 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by dubaithevilla View Post
they were half thru piling in May 08, reality is, there is slow or no progress. If I were you, I would stop paying them. You are wasting your money
Have you definitely decided to stop paying?
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Old February 7th, 2009, 09:19 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Investoman_uae View Post
I agree ,.... i bought at 1,824/sqft ... and am continuin with the payments... (well, tryin to raise some cash to pay for the next installment) but i am certain once its built... it will be worth it.

I guaranteed a 70% mortgage last week with the bank. A day after, they stopped givin 70% cos the developer is private and not master.

I am thinking perhaps in completion in October 2010... i can rent this one bed at 170,000... when i paid around 2 Million... thats a return of 8.5% ... (fingers crossed).... otherwise even 160,000 will be good.

The 1 bed is huge with sea view and has 1119 sq.ft. ... I just wish i could find the next payment right now ... ufff.

Inv.
Quote:

Construction costs in Dubai have fallen by 70.83 per cent from their peak of Dh1,200 per square foot in August 2008 to about Dh350 per sqft today, industry sources said.

http://www.business24-7.ae/articles/...4dd85141e.aspx
:( :( :(
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Old February 8th, 2009, 07:26 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markgbp View Post
I think rents will come down a bit in Abu Dhabi but not as the same rate as Dubai. But remember the slowdown in projects means they will build over a longer period, over 10 years more now. These will prologate the housing shortage in Abu Dhabi and keep rents up. The difference with Dubai is Abu Dhabi has the wealth to keep building in the short/medium term if it wants to.
It’s a good point you made about service charge this may be 1-3% per year.

UAE has no VAT and probably will not introduce it, although they may introduce income 5-10% tax in next 5 years.
You wrong will oil 'demand' I think you mean supply, and Abu Dhabi has oil supply at current production for 100 years. Oil Demand will always in demand as it is a scarce resource and demand is a factor of the global economy, which is a cycle of 8-12 years.
Oil wealth means that projects can continue and expat workers will be required to build these, hence the demand for rental property. The slowdown is healthy for Abu Dhabi as they can grow at a sustainable rate and focus on what the demand for units may be. I.e. they can’t keep building high spec apartments as the property has to be affordable as well. The challenge is to use the oil wealth to attract and create diversification industries so that the economy can grow away from oil. Only then will there be 'genuine' long term demand for rental properties not just 'construction feeding construction' as in Dubai. By diversification I mean a skilled local population with skilled expats working in financial services, pharmaceutical, airlines, manufacturing etc. etc. and not just in construction and oil related industries as is the case now.


We will see....

I was talking about demand for oil falling over due course. Hybrid cars will make an impact, but are at least 3-5 years away. Japan and India are working on various technologies and this will have a serious impact on oil demand. UAE needs to focus on the manufacturing sector without which the fall will be harder when the next crunch hits here. All expats after staying for 10-25 years still do not get citizenship, thus the money will continue to leave UAE. Government needs to find ways to keep that money and high rents are not one of the options.

I would be really surprised if a 2 bed Al Reef Villas go for anything above AED 200,000. I hope the time proves me wrong, but Al Raha Gardens 3 bed is already down to AED 300,000 p.a. and I could still negotiate to get a better deal. My friend just picked a one bed close to Khalidiyah mall from AED 80,000. I just got an offer for a 3 bed at AED 250,000 on Corniche ... it was snapped instantly is another story.

Last 3 weeks I have actually walked building to building with my friend and found that there are plenty of apartments held my government departments which might get released. I also found that 4 major companies in AD still have lot of staff staying in the hotels, thus they should be moving into lot of the buildings becoming available. I am doing various research exercises to get the real mystery behind demand and supply. We are now sitting with cash and looking closely at options. Al Reef 5 bed at 2.4 million seems a steal ... got that from Asteco. Better Homes had a few at 2.6 mil, but sold out ... thus there is activity on Al Reef, which is not surprising.

Construction cost is down to AED 350/sq.ft. to AED 500/sq.ft. for high end, which nobody seems to be aiming for .... except maybe Arzanah. Even Al Reem Island will be mid level construction quality by International standards. I looked at some of the tiles, etc being bought and realised that even middle income projects in Brazil and India have better finishes.

We are just a small group of investors, but UAE is far way behind in every sense and I hope the coming property laws at least fix that in AD, where there is a potential of real growth and I feel the bull run will really start post June 2010. We still have not seen anything .... make hay till Oil is in demand and hope India does not come with cars running on Hydrogen any time soon.

Last edited by whizkid01; February 8th, 2009 at 07:35 AM.
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Old February 8th, 2009, 07:32 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Investoman_uae View Post
My assumptions are based on a positive future for the real estate market in Abu Dhabi. I have seen what demand there is in AD... it is REAL DEMAND.... not some fake demand like in Dubai... they predicted millions to enter Dubai by 2010 forward.... thts what projects like Dubai Land were based on.... unrealistic and fake demand.

Anyways,... AD is the capital... it will remain stable for the future if not improve. Demand there is a lot higher than supply currently.

Oil will always be in demand.... the reason why its price is low is cos of low liquidity globally......everythin has gone down in price.... so once liquidity becomes available again. . .or its situation improves.... prices will rise.

I think UAE in general has alot to offer for expats than their home countries.... so if expats dont loose jobs and have stable jobs.... why would they want to leave? And leave to what? A worse situation back home??>

Inv.
I agree regarding Oil and I see it back to $75 by year end. I do agree that the lifestyle in UAE is addictive and irrespective of how much people cry here, they still love it better than back in UK, USA or elsewhere.

I have certain blue prints and laws, but nothing seem to be getting approved in a hurry. The risk is the impact of overall economy if anothing is done to fix the credit issues. I know $16B has been pumped in, but how this money is used will make a real impact on the overall economy.

I will like to see stringent credit policies and credit and risk department following International standards.
Property developers liable to investors.
Laws to protect investors.
Control the real speculators - i.e. developers. If developers would not have increased their prices so quickly, we would have never sold our properties. Within 6 months the developers had increased their prices by 40% and we found the profit too tempting. Thus the initial long term investors were forced to exit due to greed of developers.
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Old February 8th, 2009, 08:22 AM   #93
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Whizkid

Great 49 posts.

I was thinking on the same lines the economics of the whole region will change if some one finds an alternative for oil.

I am predicting it will happen in next few yrs.

Interesting times ahead for sure.
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Old February 8th, 2009, 09:11 AM   #94
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They were half thru piling in May 08, reality is, there is slow or no progress. - I agree, no progress!!!!!

Tameer even doesn't answer on the questions on Tameer's web site, never!

Last edited by deina; February 8th, 2009 at 11:12 AM. Reason: mistake
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Old February 8th, 2009, 03:08 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Freestyler View Post
:( :( :(
It couldnt have been 1200 psqft.... how come there were properties in dubai selling for 800, 900, 1000 /sqft.... were all those developers loosing? I think the actual cost of costruction is much much lower.... somewhere near 400/sqf.t

WS.
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Old February 8th, 2009, 06:03 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Investoman_uae View Post
It couldnt have been 1200 psqft.... how come there were properties in dubai selling for 800, 900, 1000 /sqft.... were all those developers loosing? I think the actual cost of costruction is much much lower.... somewhere near 400/sqf.t

WS.
whatever, but construction costs are 70% down, so what developers are doing for goodwill now? Will they keep the saving or give buyers some discount just for lip services? They should keep their markup same, and pass the saving to buyers thats the only way to save market.
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Old February 8th, 2009, 08:58 PM   #97
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yes i stopped paying Tameer. There is no progress although they pretend that everything is ok. No, everything is not ok. I went to site the other day and was very disapointed. Tried to call the salesman but he was laid off with most of his collegues. It is scary guys. If you don t believe me, go to site yourself.
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Old February 8th, 2009, 11:20 PM   #98
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We're not in the UAE. What exactly did you see at the site? Thanks.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 07:53 AM   #99
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No progress,

No progress at the site. I was there about 3 months ago and again yesterday. A few workers to be seen but no earth moving equipment in use.

I have spoken to the Customer Service officer Ms Therze about rescheduling the payment plan. She is not willing to take my case to her superiors as she thinks she is the decision maker of the project.

She can be reached at +971 02 499 8750
Or try Ms Maria at +971 50 937 1010

I bought at 2400 PSQF and paid 20% so far. Sorry to say but I am afraid it is 500K AED down the drain.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 09:10 AM   #100
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Russian speaking Tameer's customers

Hi, Is here russian speaking Tameer's customers?
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