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How will you vote on June 23?

  • Leave

    Votes: 30 27.8%
  • Leave but unlikely to vote

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Stay

    Votes: 68 63.0%
  • Stay but unlikely to vote

    Votes: 6 5.6%
  • Undecided but will vote

    Votes: 3 2.8%
  • Undecided and unlikely to vote

    Votes: 1 0.9%

The Brexit Thread | Leaving the EU and its implications for London

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brexit
2M views 28K replies 250 participants last post by  Bowater 
#1 ·
Probably means most for London for better or for worse should we leave / stay.
 
#3,361 ·
The disconnect between local and national issues at the moment is probably at its smallest point. National issues like the NHS, Brexit and government cuts will play a heavy part in the local elections.

The Conservatives (along with the rest) are certainly taking the May elections seriously.
 
#3,362 ·
I'm actually quite happy for there to be a leadership contest, and for a Leaver to become PM, so they have to deal with the realities that have faced May and Davies over the last eighteen months. Up until now, Leavers have never been happy because May was a Remainer and that's where they are pinning the blame for how thing have gone so far. Let Leave have a go, and when they realise they will have to backtrack just like May has, let the whole thing blow up in their face and support for Brexit drip away overnight.

If the Leaver PM forces a hard Brexit, the UK will just become an irrelevance overnight and I imagine much of even the hardened Leave voters will realise they had absolutely no clue how intertwined and difficult leaving would be. With the country in a shambles call an election and hopefully the Tories will be out for a generation thanks to the mess they will have created.
 
#3,363 ·
We definitely need a Hard Brexit, the boom that will follow will consign Labour to the dustbin of history. The people of Britain have huge potential but the elite have conspired to keep the working man's wages low to enrich a privledge few. This is not just the fault of Labour who have little love for our country, but also many Conservatives.
 
#3,366 ·
The disconnect between local and national issues at the moment is probably at its smallest point. National issues like the NHS, Brexit and government cuts will play a heavy part in the local elections.

The Conservatives (along with the rest) are certainly taking the May elections seriously.
Of course people confuse the issues when voting at local elections but turnouts will be lucky to reach 30%, less than half those at national elections. People are generally able to put the issues in their relevant boxes however. For examlple, I live in Wandsworth. Here we have a Conservative council (and have done for as long as so remember) but out various MP's are mixed between Labour and Conservative and can change quite a lot. Our Brexit vote was strongly remain. There isn't much consistency there which shows that people are able to make their choices based on the issues relevant to the election at hand. Of course the parties take all elections seriously but local elections have never been a good way to read the national vote. Incumbent governments never do well. What is more the next general elections are not due till 2022. The political scene will look radically different then. The only thing that will bring this forward will be either if May continues to either as she is or if she goes to the country once a deal on Brexit is agreed and that becomes a sort of referendum on Brexit.

In the meantime Labour need to come up with something because they are saying almost nothing useful on Brexit (or anything different to what the Tories are) except to be critical and try to destabilise. At some point the scrutiny will be on them and they will have to admit which direction they want to go. And Jezza is no lover of the EU so it will be interesting.
 
#3,372 · (Edited)
And how exactly do you rebuild Britain? Like Trump does, by shouting USA, USA, USA, tax cuts for the ultra rich, lower company taxes and public goods that can no longer be financed? Could you be more specific?
Yes I can.

We need to train the next generation with the skills they need, including plumbing, electricians, nursing, doctors, etc.

We need to pay people a fair wage, why are nurses not being paid more? The Conservatives would rather tax cuts and Labour would rather expand the state. It's about time we start caring about the workers of this country.

Better infrastructure - that includes expanding Heathrow, and building Crossrail 2 now - not in the far off future.

Housing - it can be fixed. Every low rise council estate in London should be rebuilt by councils as good, high density housing with at least as many council tenants as before.

More apprenticeships starting younger - 14. Why do you need a GCSE in French or Geography if you want to be an doctor / scaffolder / fireman?

Replace IT with computer science. Learning Microsoft Office is a joke, most of the office based workforce did so post school.

Engineering and economics should both be standard subjects at school.

Make power cheap for industry, and cheap for people. Make it tax free.

Tax second homes and vacant homes double council tax (as a minimum).

Give a tax cut to grandparents who child mind.

I can go on but that's enough for now.
 
#3,373 ·
No? Look at what happened to the former colonies of the USSR once they broke free of the Soviet market.
They all had a drop of around 40% in GDP over the 5 years or so after the collapse of the Soviet Union before recovering as they adopted capitalism and benefited from access to the EU.

So yes, completely comparable to the UK :nuts:

Perhaps you should compare the performance of the European ex USSR states that joined the EU (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia) with those that stayed outside (Moldova, Belarus, Ukraine)
 
#3,376 ·
As damaging as the EU has been to Britain's economic performance, for the former Soviet colonies it has been less damaging than the USSR, which in turn was less damaging than Nazi Germany was to the same countries.

As I have also mentioned the Eastern EU provinces are given an incredible amount of wealth confiscated from the British people. The same is not true of Ukraine et al.
 
#3,380 ·
They all had a drop of around 40% in GDP over the 5 years or so after the collapse of the Soviet Union before recovering as they adopted capitalism and benefited from access to the EU.

So yes, completely comparable to the UK :nuts:

Perhaps you should compare the performance of the European ex USSR states that joined the EU (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia) with those that stayed outside (Moldova, Belarus, Ukraine)
Indeed.

Mentioning the former Soviet states killed his argument before it began :lol:
 
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