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Old December 27th, 2013, 12:39 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Simfan34 View Post
If saying "this is a piece of sh-t" offends you, you need your eyes checked.
Why would anyone get offended by that? That makes no sense. Even the architect who designed the building himself wouldn't be offended. I'm sure deep inside he knows he was just trolling the city with that unforgivable junk.
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Old December 29th, 2013, 03:32 PM   #142
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Venus Jewellery? Really, they couldn't even bother to check the spelling of Jewelry before making a sign for it?? Nobody working there, the owner, the copywriter (yeah right) or the maker of the signs noticed this error? Wtf? It's like those stupid hyphenated "wel-come" signs that dot the entry of every town and city in Ethiopia.

We are so ******* lazy it's unbelievable. The level of disrespect we have for expertise, for professionalism, for mastery; it is maddening. Everyone is a jack of all trades, master of none! You build a 25 million dollar building, but are you gonna hire a landscaper to beautify the exterior? Hello no. Who needs that when construction workers can slap together some concrete monstrosities to mark the perimeter, lest some quad-pedal thieves come wandering about. Leave the dirt to sprout whatever vegetation nature deems suitable, because God forbid you disturb the balance of nature by laying sod.
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I think you guys did a good job considering the constraints in Ethiopia. But you definitely should bring in foreign expertise on your next project. Malls and shopping centers are a different beast when it comes to design, and I don't think Ethiopian architects have the required expertise and experience to deliver a good design. Here in the US, malls are designed by not just any architects, but by firms specialized in their design. It might be a good idea for you guys to retain an Ethiopian architect, but then bring in a foreign architect to do the schematic design and then provide guidance in the detailed design work. You should also bring in specialist lighting designers for the interior and exterior lighting. I think what you've done now regarding lighting is very poor. Hope this helps.
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Originally Posted by Ethiopian_Ethiopian View Post
Now that is major problem in Ethiopia. A dizzying array of signs. Different shapes,sizes, colors etc. It ruins a lot of buildings. There should be a part of the contract that forces certain parameters on the stores
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Originally Posted by AM2 View Post
Are you kidding me?? Addis is filled with atrocious spelling mistakes! It's shameful. I understand when you say diaspora people, some who barely speak English, feeling superior and pointing out mistakes, but the fact remains English is butchered in Addis. Like Hersh said, start with Wel-come.
What we need is a bit of North Korean-style leadership. Just a bit:

Simfan34 Tours Medhanealem Funfair
ENA [link]
May 9, 2014


Quote:
Prime Minister and president of the Council of Ministers Simfan34 toured the Medhanealem Funfair yesterday.

The Medhanealem Funfair is a cultural recreation ground for the people and an entertainment and educational center built by the great loving care and benevolence by Emperor Amha Selassie and Prime Minister Bulcha Demeksa who were always considerate of providing the Ethiopian people with more affluent and highly civilized life.

Covering 70 hectares, the funfair has the first-phase funfair built in a Field and the second-phase one and a wading pool built on an expansion basis in Bole Field.

The funfair has made positive contribution to the entertainment of people and school youth and children for decades.

He looked round various places of the funfair to acquaint himself in detail with its management and operation.

In front of the swingboat in the second-phase funfair, he, pointing at the seriously broken pavement in the compound of the funfair, asked officials when the road was last re-paved. It is regretful that the road has not been managed well, he said.

Putting his finger on the faulty arrangement of the bases of Oriental arborvitae and Sabina Chinensis, he said it would be good to have gravel stones planted in various shapes around the trees.

Seeing the weeds grown in between pavement blocks in the compound of the funfair, he, with an irritated look, plucked them up one by one. He said in an excited tone that he has never thought that the funfair is under such a bad state and a proverb that the darkest place is under the candlestick fits the funfair. He scolded officials, saying why such things do not come in their sight and querying could the officials of the funfair work like this, had they had the attitude befitting master, affection for their work sites and conscience to serve the people. Plucking up weeds can be done easily with hands as it is different from updating facilities, he added.

Saying that the amusement facilities have been put into operation with the paint scraped off, he noted that the officials and care-takers of the funfair have below-zero spirit of serving the people. This is not just a business issue but an issue concerning ideological viewpoint, he said in a serious tone.

He dropped in at the fountain pool where he stressed the need to tidy up the place even though it may not go operational for this or that reason.

Officials should draw a serious lesson from the tour of Medhanealem Funfair, he said, adding that this occasion should be taken to issue a serious warning to the officials so that they can have proper spirit of serving the people.

He called for sprucing up the Medhanealem Funfair as required by the Ethiopian Renaissance . This process should be made an occasion of removing outdated ideological point of view from the heads of officials and ending their old work-style, he added.

He set forth the tasks for sprucing up the funfair.

He gave Berhane Deressa, mayor of Addis Ababa, the task for sprucing up the funfair as required by the new millenium by dispatching strong construction forces of the Municipality .

The officials of the relevant fields including the Construction Committee of the Municipality, ministries and national institutions should fulfill their duties and responsibilities in sprucing up the funfair to implement the Municipality's intention of serving people in practice.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 02:20 AM   #143
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?? Explanation is in order I believe? What is this?
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Old December 30th, 2013, 03:05 AM   #144
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?? Explanation is in order I believe? What is this?
Click on the link... it is a reworded article from North Korea!
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Old December 30th, 2013, 09:24 AM   #145
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Looool. Good one! Wtf is a 'funfair'? These NKs are nuts.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 04:10 PM   #146
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i,m surprised he didn't sentence the officials in charge of the fanfare to forty lashes each,,,
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Old February 17th, 2014, 04:19 PM   #147
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To good to be true? If there is a listener in Addis we can play good music!
The Addis Ababa city officials think that Addis has "the best design" Do you think they can understand what this guy is talking about? If this works he is at the right place at the right time!
Quote:
Ethiopia: Revitalizing Addis and the City Within a City

By Berhanu Fekade, 15 February 2014




Innocent Okpanum (Ph.D.) is renowned as an architect throughout Africa, and his firm "Ngonyama Okpanum & Associates" has offices in South Africa, Nigeria and Italy. With experience stretching over 27 years, Innocent is turning his attention to three major initiatives in Ethiopia.
In South Africa he has designed six hospitals worth some USD 12 billion, and has been involved in designing train stations, stadiums and numerous buildings. Birhanu Fikade of The Reporter met Innocent to find out the architect's vision for Addis Ababa. Excerpts: The Reporter: Tells us about your visit to the capital? Innocent Okpanum: My friend Tien (a Vietnam-born Canadian citizen, in charge of the project) and I have been in Addis to observe the city.
In fact for Tien it is the first time, but I have been to Addis on more than twenty occasions. The level of architecture and design is a bit shocking, and Africans generally give little emphasis to design. Design is an intellectual exercise. Without focusing on the intellectuality of our life towards ideas and creation, the outcome follows and we lag behind. For instance, Dubai started in the 1980s, and before that it was a desert, almost uninhabitable. However, in the later years of 2000 it transformed into a world-class city. How did this happen? If you ask, the UAE has received more than ten million tourists, for a population of two million. What are we doing to capture this market? So are you saying the architecture environment is poor here?
There is no environment here. Yes, nature gave Ethiopia one of the most beautiful landscapes in the world; climatically you have superb conditions. But the human intervention in this natural setting is destructive to say the least. It has become cannibalized. The architecture around here is cannibalizing the God-gifted setting. This is true for many African countries, yet this is a capital of Africa and should be the training center for other African countries.
Addis should be used as the test case, and when the heads of state come here they should say, 'I want to do better than what Ethiopia has done'. They might arrange for someone to come here and meet the architects for assistance and advice. However, this is not the case. I don't like complaining. I am pragmatic in getting problems solved. Actually, what we see in Addis is the opportunity to transform the city into a world-class setting. What exactly is missing in terms of design, building environment etc compared with your country?
The first gap is the lack of pavilions, plazas and public squares which we call place-making. Even in South Africa this is a total failure. You cannot find good squares, apart from a very few. Currently, Johannesburg is not a livable city. Yes, there are good buildings, good architecture, and good infrastructure, yet it lacks in terms of human interaction. The only place you can see is the malls and it is not a city where you can interact easily. A good example in Addis is the small area around Bole Medhanialem, in front of Edna Mall. You see something happening there. Though lacking in terms of articulation and design, you can see people interact. Architecture is very important, as good places and buildings attract people spontaneously.
This needs to be reinforced. There is articulation in some places, but we can use certain elements to enhance the vibrancy. What we are talking about is that the good soul of Addis attracts many, and one plus point is that there are no walls. Most buildings are street facing; little intervention can create an environment that people have the desire to be around. There are lots of advantages in making cities like that, including political for those looking for votes. When human interaction is eased, cultural activities like carnivals, cycling, and marathon races can take place comfortably in the city, if it is designed to host such activities. Most important of all is economics, and if you can design cities that can be navigated without needing to drive.
The Americans have recently recognized that the designs of their cities are failures. I recommend that everybody looks into Richard Jackson, an American medical-psychologist who reasoned about the failures of urban design principles, as they focus on vehicles rather than human interaction. Italians are better in that regard. Do not forget that we are human beings; we do not live by isolation. Whenever we go out, there is a way of stealing someone's money in a very polite manner. It's all about the pretty something that you may buy for your family or yourself in a shop, and inevitably you buy something, even if it's out of your budget. You spend money on something that keeps a business alive, helping to employ many people. Seeing the amount of people hopeless and helpless in the streets is scary, and we architects are responsible for this.
They should be the leaders in any society they belong to. As Winston Churchill said, the way we design our cities is the way we live in our cities. The reason Africans keep leaving the continent is that for most it is not a good place to live. If opportunities are in place, who would leave their countries? We are not creating opportunities because we neglect design. It is everything. Unfortunately, there is no single African city that is livable. Lagos and Abuja are cities full of walls, with billions or trillions of dollars spent walling people off from interacting with their cities. Such failure of design inflicts crime. Cameras or walls do not prevent crime, the best security is making sure the buildings interface with the environment. Ethiopia has a fantastic climatic condition and you don't need artificial ventilation. What is your major reason for being here?
My main mission here in Addis is to see how we can create things in a better way. We will see how to design and create better places to use as pilot projects. We don't want the government funding us for what we do, and we are putting some mechanisms in place to raise funds. Once we have set the good example, it is certain that people will follow suit. We invited five graduating class students from Addis Ababa University to see the building environment in South Africa. They visited Johannesburg and Cape Town, staying for six days with their instructor, who was also from Addis. From now on, every year, we will send around five students around the world to study different architecture. And the two top scoring students will be offered a yearlong paid internship, to learn the high-class knowhow. After a year they will be expected to return home and contribute, based on the knowledge they have gained. Last year we interviewed an architect from Barcelona, Spain. He said that the glass and steel structures of the new buildings does not belong to Ethiopia's culture.
The modern construction methods are a concern for many in Ethiopia, how do you see it? In terms of the materiality or texturing of buildings, as we call it, in the early 1980s, when I was in Italy, I asked myself this question. There is a certain battle you have to fight at times. I always say that we would love to entrench an architectural vernacular into our environment, because Africa has got millions of cultures. It's a culturally endowed continent, yet to date this has been neglected. For instance, Indians have only got five cultures, but they have capitalized on this limited amount. They have Bollywood, a film industry that has over overtaken the US-giant Hollywood in every aspect. Nigerians created Nollywood and made some progress. Artists like Huma Sekella, former husband of the late Maria Makeba, are doing well in promoting African culture.
He plays the best jazz exclusively based on African culture. He came to me five years ago and said that African architects need to look at African culture. Our architects have lost it, but I don't have a problem with using glass for buildings, as transparency is essential. The more openness the building offers, the better the people residing in it will engage with the environment. Having said that, in the center of Qatar, the sheiks have realized that the traditional architecture attracts more visitors than the new tower buildings designed by the Americans. Hence, African architecture has lots of potential. My visit to Addis at this time is a coincidence as I was meant to go to Vietnam, but I was advised to take Ethiopian Airlines and pass through Addis, then change on to Dubai, through the Emirates on to Vietnam. As the plane was about to land I looked down - as an architect that is what I always do - and saw a fantastic landscape. It was actually very beautiful. A landscape from the air. When I landed, instead of transiting I wanted to see the city.
The first thing that hit me as I entered the city was the drive from Bole Airport to Mesqel Square. I see the road as an African celebration center. In fact, when you drive down that five km road, you must recognize the need to feel yes, I am an African. That's what it should tell me. But on the contrary, it says to me that yes, I not an African. That feeling has been lost. I want to revitalize that road. I met with a university lecturer and told him about my project, and I am willing to risk my money on it, my personal money. I want to do something on it. A project entitled: Revitalizing the Mesqel Square to Bole Access Street. Then other ideas came up. A design and technology innovation city in Addis has come up, requiring some 200 or 300 hectares of land to work on. These are two key initiatives we have in mind. Of course, the issue of lecturing students in Addis happened and in doing so I have discovered some gaps. I wanted to contribute by sharing knowledge with the students, as students are the key to whatever the society needs.
As I said previously, five students visited South Africa to observe, and next year the five best students from Ethiopia, with their lecturer, will go to see Johannesburg and Cape Town, and also Italy. This cultural exchange will be an annual event, and the two best final year students will have the opportunity for a one year exchange, returning to Addis afterwards to practice what they have learnt. If we do that in a five-year period, we will produce some good hands that could achieve a great deal. For that we will set out an architectural competition in partnership with my foundation at the university, and ask students how they can come up with ideas to revitalize a livable environment. The winner will be granted USD five to ten thousand. These are the initiatives we have in the pipeline. How much will it cost to create a 200 to 300 hectares city? That is to build a new design and technological innovative city. Within a city...
Yes, within a city. We are looking for land and we have a meeting scheduled with Addis Ababa city and the suburbs master plan revising officials, to find us land to realize the project they met with officials and discussed their plans on Monday, agreeing to come up with detailed designs to submit within the next three months.
source allafrica.com
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Old February 17th, 2014, 06:10 PM   #148
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The part about "when the heads of state come here they should say, 'I want to do better than what Ethiopia has done" really struck me. These people are effing the place up.
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Old February 19th, 2014, 03:49 AM   #149
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Simfan your comments

The slanty building is impossible, it must be a portal that leads to the space time continuum
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 08:52 AM   #150
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HEROES OF ETHIOPIAN ARCHITECTURE



BIGAR ARCHITECTS
http://bigar.net/people-bigar.html


BROOK TEFERRA


DAWIT SOLOMON


FIKREYESUS MESFIN


MINASSIE AYTENFISU















JEGNA ARBENGOCH IN THE WAR AGAINST "ARCHI-WRECKS" AND BAD ARCHITECTURE! KEEP IT UP!
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 09:10 AM   #151
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You should e-mail them the link to this thread..
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Old March 3rd, 2014, 09:35 AM   #152
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I have. Also, I am giving them the SkyscraperCity Ethiopia Award for Architectural Excellence.

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Old March 3rd, 2014, 10:52 AM   #153
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These guys are first rate, real African inspiration and not the blue glass I saw everywhere when I was in Addis back in January... hideous. I don't know why these guys aren't more prolific... it's the clients.
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Old March 5th, 2014, 05:41 AM   #154
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Those are some sweet designs! Not feeling the yellow hotel though.
Anyone ever imagine a skyscraper in the shape of an Axum obelisk? That would be dopeeeee.
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Old July 28th, 2014, 04:38 PM   #155
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Quote:

“I wish there was a time of more thinking than building”

26 July 2014 Written by Berhanu Fekade “I wish there was a time of more thinking than building”




Paolo Elmi, general manager of Elmi Olindo Construction Company
Established in 1937, Elmi Olindo Construction is one of the oldest building companies in Ethiopia; in fact it is one of the first business enterprises in Ethiopia.

Paolo Elmi, general manager of the company and his brother took over the family business from their father. Over the passage of time, the Italian firm has embarked on many projects. The long-serving buildings for the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa (UNECA) and the International Livestock Research Institute (ILRI) are some of monumental structures that the Elmi family name is attached to. Recently, the company reassured its presence in industry by completing six projects, including a project for East Africa Bottling SC (Coca Cola's bottler) and the US-based Center for Disease Control (CDC) funded Gondar Referral Comprehensive Outpatient Hospital. Some 180 million birr was spent in the construction of the hospital. The company is also working with Ethiopian Airlines and Dashen Beer Factory among others. Birhanu Fikade of The Reporter caught up with Paolo Elmi, who speaks fluent Amharic (the working local language of Ethiopia), at the inauguration ceremony of the referral hospital for a brief interview regarding the ups and downs of Ethiopian construction industry. Excerpts:
The Reporter: To begin with, can you tell us what you have been doing for the Ethiopian Airlines?
Paolo Elmi: Mainly we are involved with the construction of the Ethiopian Aviation Academy, which we are finalizing at the moment. Apart from that, we are also involved in the construction of the ground facilities such as the maintenance hangar. We are also working on a new factory for Dashen Beer in Debre Birhan town. Furthermore, the construction project of plastic bottles producing plant for East Africa Bottling SC (Coca Cola) was awarded to us, which we concluded some six month ago, and currently it is operational.
You also undertook the construction of the Dire Dawa branch factory for East Africa Bottling?
Yes. We did manage the expansion and modernization projects at Dire Dawa for Coca Cola.
Your company was in Ethiopia since the time of the Italian occupation of Ethiopia. How is the construction business changing over the years?
Frankly speaking, Ethiopia’s growth within the last ten years was an outstanding one. We have seen big changes. Of course, we faced some challenges too. It’s possible to face shortage of materials. Shortage of electricity seems unavoidable. These problems are linked with growth, and they are risks we need to bear to exist in business. On our side, human capital, equipment and machineries need to be upgraded. We have a lot to do to cope with the changing environment.
How do you see the competition? By the way, have you become a general contractor (eligible to partake in big civil projects like roads and bridges)?
We are in the business of building construction. That’s our area of interest. I think there are many opportunities for contractors since everybody wants to build something these days. The construction sector remains to be one of the major contributors to the economy and, yes, many jobs are on the table and I think it is benefiting the growth process.
How about the competition? Is it a healthy trend so far?
There is a lot of competition out there. I think we need to see it from two perspectives. One is the competition in terms of price and the other is from the angle of complexity or capacity-based competition, which has become the norm these days. If the growth continues, Ethiopia may require a complex and competitiveness construction sector. Specialization is inevitable. More and more of us will need to specialize in a certain sector as noticed in many countries. New things are coming to the construction sector. Building management systems are recent phenomena. The more complex the buildings become, the more they require upkeeping and maintenance. It’s just like a living organism. I think there will be many challenges and opportunities along the way. Since now the government is favoring private initiatives, accommodative policies are expected to be in place. It’s vital to have facilitations of the government in order to be engaged in the sector and take the risks if necessary. The overall capacity of the private sector is not that big in Ethiopia. So, it needs a lot: say access to credit, foreign exchange, and customs. It needs attentions. Customs are high in Ethiopia. Opening up economies is becoming a worldwide trend and I hope customs will go lower in time. In sum, the competitiveness of the private sector is something which needs to be looked into. It has to go bold on efficiency too. If you compare the competitiveness of the Ethiopian private sector with some countries, we are very slow and small.
What is the viewpoint of your company regarding this sector?
We try to give a lot of attention to each detail in the construction process. Construction is a complex process and requires many steps. I think we have the philosophy that all the people working for the organization are required to give much attention to details. It is helpful to deliver jobs efficiently with quality. That of course involves internal supervision and control over what has been done. We try to invest in new technologies in the hope of modernizing what we do. We try to capacitate our workforce and that’s why we have a very committed staff.
How well established are you, say, in terms of capital, employment status and other areas?
We currently have 2,000 employees and we have the ability to raise capital in time of our need and until now we were lucky to raise enough capital for what we wanted to do. We consider ourselves as a medium-size company managed by family members. We are cautious on what we invest our money on. We might be seen as conservatives in those regards. We will see what the future holds for us. We will consider accessing loans. But, we don’t want to expose ourselves to a lot of external financings.
The outpatient hospital which your company constructed in Gondar has aesthetic values which many commentators have admired. How do you put that together?
My first thanks goes to the designers. ZS is a well-established architectural design firm in Ethiopia and with whom we have worked all CDC-funded projects we were awarded so far. Their design has been very carefully thought out. We have enjoyed a closer relationship with them to develop the construction. Not only the design but also on the selection of materials, on the designing process and I think that resulted in a kind of quality outcome we are seeing right now. Such a building might be the case in the capital to see. But in the regions it’s a bit difficult because the skill level is less developed out there.
In the capital there are more of aluminum and glass structures rising over the skylines. And many argue that they don’t represent the country's values as opposed to the one you have built in Gondar. What is your take on that?
I think you should focus on buildings that are good for the environment. Ethiopia enjoys a very nice weather condition most of the year. It’s very important for the future to build in a sustainable manner. Unfortunately, building rash is overlooked on some occasions. Some buildings are born being old. That’s unfortunate to see. They require upgrades because such buildings may not be easy to work or live in given their current status. The other thing that I really need to say is that much of emphasis has been given to the construction side. I feel there is not enough concern about the design part. In the urban planning and designing segment of buildings, you really need designers to have bigger say to be able to build the cities of the future in a way fifteen or more years from now everyone may enjoy. That situation is a challenge in Addis Ababa. Development has become more rapid and is accelerating over the years, but I wish there could be more time to thinking than and more planning than building. I think that would be a big improvement if it happens in the near future.
You speak fluent Amharic. Were you born here?
I was actually born in Asmara, Eritrea. During my childhood days, my parents moved to Addis and remained here until my teenage time. Then I left Ethiopia for Italy for my studies. After that I came back to take care of the family business.
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Old July 28th, 2014, 10:14 PM   #156
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ቃለ መጠይቁን በአማርኛ አንብቤዋለሁ:: ከዚያ ላይ እንዳውም "አሁን የሚሰሩትን ህንፃዎች ሳይ ሮጠህ ጥፋ ያሰኘኛል" ብሎ ነበር ባልሳሳት::

ድህንነትን: እርዛትን: መጠለያ ማጣትን ካስወገደ ይሁን ተብሎ እንቀበለው እንጅ, እስካሁን የሚደረገው የግንባታ ሥራ, አዲስ አበባ የሰከነ የመኖሪያ ከተማነቷን አያወደመ ነው:: ወደ ኋላ ተመልሶ የማስተካከሉ ወሰንም አልፏል: አይቻልም:: ብልጹግ: ፈጠራንና ዝየዳን: ፍልስፍናን: በሳልነትን: ኪነ-ጥብብንና ኪነ-ሠገለን ያቋጠረ: በአካልም በአይምሮም ጤናማ የሆነ: ባጠቃላይ ኢትዮጵያን ወደፊት እመር ሊያደርግ የሚችል ህብረተሰብ አዲሳባ ውስጥ መመስረት አይቻልም:: ሌላ ከተማ መቋቋም ወይንም መመረጥ አለበት::
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Last edited by begtera; July 28th, 2014 at 10:23 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2014, 10:33 PM   #157
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ቃለ መጠይቁን በአማርኛ አንብቤዋለሁ:: ከዚያ ላይ እንዳውም "አሁን የሚሰሩትን ህንፃዎች ሳይ ሮጠህ ጥፋ ያሰኘኛል" ብሎ ነበር ባልሳሳት::

ድህንነትን: እርዛትን: መጠለያ ማጣትን ካስወገደ ይሁን ተብሎ እንቀበለው እንጅ, እስካሁን የሚደረገው የግንባታ ሥራ, አዲስ አበባ የሰከነ የመኖሪያ ከተማነቷን አያወደመ ነው:: ወደ ኋላ ተመልሶ የማስተካከሉ ወሰንም አልፏል: አይቻልም:: ብልጹግ: ፈጠራንና ዝየዳን: ፍልስፍናን: በሳልነትን: ኪነ-ጥብብንና ኪነ-ሠገለን ያቋጠረ: በአካልም በአይምሮም ጤናማ የሆነ: ባጠቃላይ ኢትዮጵያን ወደፊት እመር ሊያደርግ የሚችል ህብረተሰብ አዲሳባ ውስጥ መመስረት አይቻልም:: ሌላ ከተማ መቋቋም ወይንም መመረጥ አለበት::
Tesmamchalehu ato begtera/lamrof. Be ewenet ketema wuste kalew yehensa genbata ayne wuste yemigeba teqitu new. Betam tesfa yemisqoret new negeru. Bete latu geleseboch gen meftehe mestetu menem ayelem.
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Old March 24th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #158
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I agree with you sooooo much ... I am so disappointed with the current set of architectural designs. So is this the result of bad design, bad construction or probably a combination of both. I saw it at the top of Entoto on the way to Sululta.



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Last edited by GetLostInET; March 24th, 2015 at 08:19 PM. Reason: Forgot to attach pic
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Old March 24th, 2015, 09:42 PM   #159
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How can people build crap like this ... how come they don't feel ashamed just looking at it once it's done?
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Old March 25th, 2015, 04:59 AM   #160
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How can people build crap like this ... how come they don't feel ashamed just looking at it once it's done?
Here is the full design and believe me I am not trying to aggravate you

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