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Old April 22nd, 2017, 01:13 AM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
Regarding the stations, I think you better check the actual distances. (Btw. I grew up in QC, sp in one of the triangles. So I'm quite familiar with that neck of the woods.) North Av to QC Av is more than 3 km, more like 4, then to Anonas that would be similar. Regardless, my point and this is the same point I made with the new LRT lines, the distances between stations are too long. The most they should have in between is 1 km in less populated areas, and 250 m in business centers or populated areas. Do not expect people to walk 1+ km to a station with no or single file only sidewalk especially in the Philippines. There are basic rules when it comes to spacing stations, here is the link (it even recommends shorter distances): [URL="http://humantransit.org/2010/11/san-francisco-a-rational-stop-spacing-plan.html"]http://humantransit.org/2010/11/san-francisco-a-rational-stop-spacing-plan.
Not interested where planet you are... Ganito, North Ave. is part of they called QC triangle, (North, West, South and East avenues, ang center Quezon Ave) di ba?
North and East Avenues starts at QC memorial circle ended at EDSA, while South (Timog) and West avenues starts at Quezon Ave. also ended at EDSA, tama? Isipin mo na gaano kahabang kalyeng mga yan, take note, may mga jitney ngrota dyan bawat kalye at minimum fare (@4km max)
Further, crossing edsa from west avenue is north and east is south avenues, respectively...
Nasubukan mo na bang lakarin mga kalye na yan?
Ex. 1. West Ave from Q Ave (Circle Thea/Maalikaya/Delta M) to EDSA (Paramount/MRT),
2. Tawid tayo, North Ave (SM/Trinoma) to QC memorial circle passing Mindanao ave & Veterans Hospital,
3. East Ave from QC hall to EDSA and
4, South (Timog) Ave. GMA TV to Q Ave.
Gaano kalayo mga iyan? Pwedeng lakarin yan...

North Ave. to Quezon Ave. via EDSA (sm/trinoma to NPC) nilalakad ko lng paminsan minsan sa umaga, lalo na matrapik... Regarding the distance, isipin mo, along EDSA jeepney charge minimum fare only from Munoz Market to Quezon Ave., meaning not more than 4km pa ang layo...
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 01:14 AM   #362
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From Thinking Pinoy
Quote:
MEGA MANILA SUBWAY COMING SOON!
To be built from Q4 2019 to Q2 2024, this 25-kilometer underground mass transportation system connecting major business districts and government centers. It is expected to serve around 370,000 passengers per day in its opening year.
The proposed line will have 13 stations, namely:

1. Mindanao Ave - Quirino Highway
2. Mindanao Ave - Tandang Sora
3. Mindanao Ave - North Ave
4. EDSA - Quezon Ave
5. East Ave - V. Luna
6. Kamias Rd. - Anonas Ext.
7. Katipunan - Boni Serrano
8. Meralco Ave - Ortigas Ave
9. Meralco Ave - Shaw Blvd
10. BGC - Kalayaan
11. Central BGC (near Market!Market! / High Street)
12. C5 - Cayetano Blvd
13. FTI- Taguig
I traced the stations (including the proposed NAIA station) on Google Maps and came up with a route that looks more logical than that of CNN.

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Old April 22nd, 2017, 01:29 AM   #363
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As for long distances between stations, let us keep in mind that this is a metro that will ferry more passengers than buses or lrts, so it is okay to have longer distances.

Para saan pa na may buses and jeepneys? You can't expect a city to be just about walking and taking trains. All transportation means should play a part and complement one another.

Also, having a metro stop every 250m makes it ridiculously inefficient.

For this project, I trust JICA 100% and I'm sure they know their stuff better than some random internet poster.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 02:13 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by s_w_stars View Post
Thanks for the research. How old is this map? Could this be over 10 years old? There have been changes already. There are some elements from the plan older than this.

In an older plan, that former Line 4 (which goes to Novaliches) was meant to extend to Bulacan, not that line going from North station nor that MM subway (they weren't in that plan).
This is not old. This came from the Dream Plan of JICA of 2015, which is now the basis of the current expressway and railway plans of the present administration. The Mega Manila Subway, Makati-Pasay-Taguig Subway (or Makati Loop), (NSRP) North-South Railway Project, East and West extension of LRT2, LRT 1 extension and the LRT 6 are all included here. MRT7 is still here but they included the extension to Espana, which was the original plan. Ignore the secondary lines, that's still too far from reality.

Line 4 is now MRT 7 and the route is still the same except the segment after North Ave going to Espana.

Mega Manila subway is the dotted line going from north to south. For the 1st phase (also called central section) of this subway, there are three options. JICA only showed the first option in this map.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magniko View Post
This map is actually quite old.
Alot of these lines, like the Zapote-Kawit-Sangley line, that Navotas line, that line in Tondo, Dr. Jose Rizal Ave line, Marikina line, the list goes on

The NSCR will also be able to connect to the Mega Manila Subway, CBD Subway, LRT-1, LRT-2, MRT-3, MRT-4, Radial Radial Road/Roxas Boulevard BRT, España Blv/Quezon Avenue BRT, Makati/BGC BRT and C-5 BRT

In my opinion, I can already see a nice pattern with interconnectivity
As I said above, this is not old. This was released in 2015. Unless you think 2015 is old.

As for "Zapote-Kawit-Sangley line, that Navotas line, that line in Tondo, Dr. Jose Rizal Ave line, Marikina line" those lines are not in any government plans before. If you want to know how Japan planned our subways before, check out this link: https://d0ctrine.com/tag/metro-manila/

This is the very first plan of Japan for Metro Manila's subways made in 1973. I actually like this one, than what we have now. As you can see, most of the routes are almost the same as the present ones except for minor differences.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 02:47 AM   #365
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I don't see it serving much of Manila, Caloocan and Pasay especially Manila being the city center. Is there another project to address this? Would not Manila need a subway more since the roads are narrower here and more congested than say Quezon City or Taguig?

Also assuming there is an airport link, for the subway. How will Manila, Pasay and Caloocan residences utilize it other than taking a roundabout route like LRT2 to one of the interconnections to the Subway. LRT1 doesn't seem to have an interconnection the subway, and LRT1 is by far the oldest and now the longest line with the Cavite extension.
One thing I find in common in JICAs option for the route of the subway is that it passes through the transport terminals such as the South ITS and North ITS. The subway will also have a connection with LRT-1 when it passes through West Ave to North Ave. I think PNR can accommodate commuters in Manila provided that they are equipped with better rolling stock.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 02:50 AM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le Reine View Post
This is not old. This came from the Dream Plan of JICA of 2015, which is now the basis of the current expressway and railway plans of the present administration. The Mega Manila Subway, Makati-Pasay-Taguig Subway (or Makati Loop), (NSRP) North-South Railway Project, East and West extension of LRT2, LRT 1 extension and the LRT 6 are all included here. MRT7 is still here but they included the extension to Espana, which was the original plan. Ignore the secondary lines, that's still too far from reality.

Line 4 is now MRT 7 and the route is still the same except the segment after North Ave going to Espana.

Mega Manila subway is the dotted line going from north to south. For the 1st phase (also called central section) of this subway, there are three options. JICA only showed the first option in this map.

As I said above, this is not old. This was released in 2015. Unless you think 2015 is old.

As for "Zapote-Kawit-Sangley line, that Navotas line, that line in Tondo, Dr. Jose Rizal Ave line, Marikina line" those lines are not in any government plans before. If you want to know how Japan planned our subways before, check out this link: https://d0ctrine.com/tag/metro-manila/

This is the very first plan of Japan for Metro Manila's subways made in 1973. I actually like this one, than what we have now. As you can see, most of the routes are almost the same as the present ones except for minor differences.
I seriously prefer this plan than the super delayed f***ed up MRT-LRT Common station.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 04:53 AM   #367
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CNN PH Map showing the subway route is nothing but nonsense garbage.
No point arguing about this map if all of us on this forum has read the JICA proposal.

I tried to make sense of the station locations on this map. I think what happened was, CNN reporter got the station names but not the actual route map, then the graphics team simply searched each location on Google Maps, connected the dots, and came up with this garbage map.

Try it yourselves, search "Ninoy Aquino International Airport", "Food Terminal Inc", "Kalayaan Avenue", "Katipunan Avenue". Kalayaan Avenue pin isn't even on Kalayaan, but on Rockwell.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 04:59 AM   #368
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I'm really having trouble keeping track of which lines are actually planned for and which lines were proposed and abandoned. Nevertheless, here's the map I have right now based upon the BRT plans in place and speculated upon, the LRT/MRT extension plans in place, the PNR extension plans in place, and the CNN map. It needs some work around NAIA and a few just attention-to-detail fixes, but this is the best I can figure out right now for what this administration wants to do:



Here's the big version of the map.

I'll update this map yet again with the C3 option from the 2015 JICA report unless there's a consensus agreement about which alignment is actually moving forward; that would make the most sense to put into a future rapid transit map.

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Old April 22nd, 2017, 05:24 AM   #369
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As an aside, the 1973 plan looks the only rail plan that's fully realized: MRT is clearly the orbital it's supposed to be, the radial lines are all doing what they should be doing and serving significant parts of the city, PNR is a nice hybrid inner orbital/radial, and there is still plenty of space for another orbital at C-5 and more lines to complete a high-frequency grid throughout the central city. Honestly, the BRT folks seem to have a better idea of what they want in a transit system for the city than the rail folks.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 07:14 AM   #370
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Grabe, 1973 pa lang there have already been plans c/o JICA to do these rail lines (and its muuuuch better still!)

Fast forward 45 years (2017), all we have to show is laway and what-could-have-been.

FORTY-FIVE YEARS.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 09:32 AM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absinthe_888 View Post
Grabe, 1973 pa lang there have already been plans c/o JICA to do these rail lines (and its muuuuch better still!)

Fast forward 45 years (2017), all we have to show is laway and what-could-have-been.

FORTY-FIVE YEARS.
Thanks Apo Lakay! LOL

OT: Why no stop at Libis?
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 11:36 AM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absinthe_888 View Post
Grabe, 1973 pa lang there have already been plans c/o JICA to do these rail lines (and its muuuuch better still!)

Fast forward 45 years (2017), all we have to show is laway and what-could-have-been.

FORTY-FIVE YEARS.


may revenue generating daw yung paulit ulit na feasibility study ha ha ha
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 12:09 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by OctaviusIII View Post
I'm really having trouble keeping track of which lines are actually planned for and which lines were proposed and abandoned. Nevertheless, here's the map I have right now based upon the BRT plans in place and speculated upon, the LRT/MRT extension plans in place, the PNR extension plans in place, and the CNN map. It needs some work around NAIA and a few just attention-to-detail fixes, but this is the best I can figure out right now for what this administration wants to do:



Here's the big version of the map.

I'll update this map yet again with the C3 option from the 2015 JICA report unless there's a consensus agreement about which alignment is actually moving forward; that would make the most sense to put into a future rapid transit map.
Nice though my only gripes regarding this is instead of "Manila Rapid", maybe "Manila Rail Network" would be better especially it includes the commuter rail networks of PNR for both North and South, the rail names, the MRT Line 2 West extension stations (Divisoria and Tutuban is one and the same while the missing station is North Port) and the tentative color and/or routing of the Mega Manila Subway Map which is understandable for now.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 04:37 PM   #374
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Not interested where planet you are... Ganito, North Ave. is part of they called QC triangle, (North, West, South and East avenues, ang center Quezon Ave) di ba?
As I said, I'm very familiar with that area as we still had a house up to late 90s. Yup I grew up in the triangles. Again the distances are too big for transit. In those neighborhoods in the triangles are residential areas who will want to get a proper ride not jeepneys, tricis or have to resort to walk like you. That area has been populated by middle class since the 60s and there proper colour coded buses with actual bus stops in between.

My point is I don't care how much jeepney costs or why you have to resort to walking, it is the distance/spacing between stations, same for LRT stations, they should make provisions for stations so people do not have to walk 500 or 1 km to a station. 2-4 km spacing between stations in a populated neighborhood is not smart. There are benchmarks to follow for the planners to use. The reason why we need proper transit system is to allow people to commute quicker, faster, avoid taking the car or using inneficient transpo modes like jeepneys and tricis that's clogging up the arteries of the city.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 04:43 PM   #375
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Nice though my only gripes regarding this is instead of "Manila Rapid", maybe "Manila Rail Network" would be better especially it includes the commuter rail networks of PNR for both North and South, the rail names, the MRT Line 2 West extension stations (Divisoria and Tutuban is one and the same while the missing station is North Port) and the tentative color and/or routing of the Mega Manila Subway Map which is understandable for now.
Thanks. Easier to understand. But there seems to be plans on top of plans now. With that map, there's too many things to comment on. But, first, the use of BRT (which has been discussed to death in the BRT thread and will have a short shelf life for Manila.) Second, moving the Grand Central Station to North Avenue. (All roads lead the Ayala Development.) I like better the old plan master plan better where the convergence of the rail lines is where L1/L2/old L4 meet and PNR. If they can have a rail line going to North Ave, another one in the South, and Tutuban - they can have a North/South/Central rail station. unfortunately, that will be sopping wet dream.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 04:56 PM   #376
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This is not old. This came from the Dream Plan of JICA of 2015, which is now the basis of the current expressway and railway plans of the present administration. The Mega Manila Subway, Makati-Pasay-Taguig Subway (or Makati Loop), (NSRP) North-South Railway Project, East and West extension of LRT2, LRT 1 extension and the LRT 6 are all included here. MRT7 is still here but they included the extension to Espana, which was the original plan. Ignore the secondary lines, that's still too far from reality.

Line 4 is now MRT 7 and the route is still the same except the segment after North Ave going to Espana.

Mega Manila subway is the dotted line going from north to south. For the 1st phase (also called central section) of this subway, there are three options. JICA only showed the first option in this map.

As I said above, this is not old. This was released in 2015. Unless you think 2015 is old.

As for "Zapote-Kawit-Sangley line, that Navotas line, that line in Tondo, Dr. Jose Rizal Ave line, Marikina line" those lines are not in any government plans before. If you want to know how Japan planned our subways before, check out this link: https://d0ctrine.com/tag/metro-manila/

This is the very first plan of Japan for Metro Manila's subways made in 1973.
I actually like this one, than what we have now. As you can see, most of the routes are almost the same as the present ones except for minor differences.
Kudos! I knew there have plans on top of plans. This is the mother of all plans. I like this plan because they actually follow the lay of the land, very rational, connects different areas of the city. Metro Manila itself is very small city, minuscule compared to other cities. They can plug in those holes with a proper bus transit. Anyway, water under the bridge.

Subsequent plans in the 90s followed basically the same routing just additional lines and extensions, realignment. After 2000, the new plans seems to be all leading to North Avenue! That's when the Ayala Group opened Trinoma, since then, I believe they bought/own/lease gov't lands for the their QC business district. That is why the big hoopla about the common station being changed into a grand central.
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 05:59 PM   #377
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Kudos! I knew there have plans on top of plans. This is the mother of all plans. I like this plan because they actually follow the lay of the land, very rational, connects different areas of the city. Metro Manila itself is very small city, minuscule compared to other cities. They can plug in those holes with a proper bus transit. Anyway, water under the bridge.

Subsequent plans in the 90s followed basically the same routing just additional lines and extensions, realignment. After 2000, the new plans seems to be all leading to North Avenue! That's when the Ayala Group opened Trinoma, since then, I believe they bought/own/lease gov't lands for the their QC business district. That is why the big hoopla about the common station being changed into a grand central.
Metro Manila isn't small, it is one of the largest cities in the world!

Anyway, Quezon City as with its size already has two major transport hub especially for rapid transit, Cubao and the future GCT Uptown!
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Old April 22nd, 2017, 08:08 PM   #378
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TBM to be used for this Project...







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Old April 23rd, 2017, 12:02 AM   #379
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I traced the stations (including the proposed NAIA station) on Google Maps and came up with a route that looks more logical than that of CNN.

For all these stations, the government should allot sufficient spaces for jeepneys/buses to load and unload passengers. Otherwise, there would chaos in the neighborhood of these stations. The authorities can also build or let private firms build properly secured car garages for those wishing to avail of the subway.
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Old April 23rd, 2017, 10:55 AM   #380
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I moved the posts regarding the BRT discussion to the BRT thread. Please continue discussing that topic there since there are also people interested and would like to participate. The topics on this thread should only be about the Mega-Manila Subway...
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