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Old May 14th, 2018, 04:26 AM   #1621
Ph Man
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Can't imagine how things will be like once both the Rise and its neighbor gets occupied. Any guestimates as to how much will the rental rates be for 1BR and 2BR for The Rise?

TIA.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 10:01 AM   #1622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agwe23 View Post
Any idea what's the going rate for a 1BR in the resale market per square meter?

Also, the transfer fees for The Rise, is it still 50k or 250k?

Thank you.
150K. Get the buyer to shoulder it for you. I have completed the sale for my unit. Worth it.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 10:02 AM   #1623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agwe23 View Post
Any idea what's the going rate for a 1BR in the resale market per square meter?

Also, the transfer fees for The Rise, is it still 50k or 250k?

Thank you.
I bought my 26.5sqm for 2.6M. Sold it for 4M. I think now is the best time to resell while there is still time before TO.
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Old May 17th, 2018, 06:49 PM   #1624
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The Rise Makati [63F|res|u/c]

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Originally Posted by deanslistr View Post
I bought my 26.5sqm for 2.6M. Sold it for 4M. I think now is the best time to resell while there is still time before TO.


And it may be the last chance to sell. More and more developers are jacking up the transfer of rights fee to ridiculous levels. And some developers like Ayala and Federal Land are forcing their customers to pay 6% Capital Gains Tax when transferring preselling condos. It is only a matter of time before all major developers follow them.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 02:42 AM   #1625
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But capital gains should only be paid when the unit has been turned over. If it still under construction, only transfer of rights should be paid right?
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Old May 18th, 2018, 07:21 AM   #1626
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Originally Posted by 584C View Post
And it may be the last chance to sell. More and more developers are jacking up the transfer of rights fee to ridiculous levels. And some developers like Ayala and Federal Land are forcing their customers to pay 6% Capital Gains Tax when transferring preselling condos. It is only a matter of time before all major developers follow them.
Capital gains tax is paid by seller if its not part of his trade for example individuals like us selling our condos to any entity (person or corporation).

Developers, since its part of their business, the condos are considered ordinary asset (and not capital asset), and they don't have to pay capital gains for every condos they sell.

Therefore; i don't see why they will charge you capital gains tax.

if you however; re sell your unit, then you will have to pay capital gains, since that asset is considered your capital asset (not part of your business).
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Old May 18th, 2018, 07:58 AM   #1627
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One shouldnt pay capital gains tax if the title is still not under his name since techinally unit is still not his esp if he hasnt fully paid it yet. If he sells it before turnover or before paying turnover balance, developer is still the lawful owner of that unit. If developer demands you to pay CGT during time when you still havent fully settled your payments but have found a buyer willing to claim your rights/fully pay unit, I dont think paying CGT is lawful.

But if you're fully paid and developer has already transferred title to your name, by all means you are legally bound to pay capital gains tax to the BIR when you sell your unit to another.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 08:00 AM   #1628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 584C View Post
And it may be the last chance to sell. More and more developers are jacking up the transfer of rights fee to ridiculous levels. And some developers like Ayala and Federal Land are forcing their customers to pay 6% Capital Gains Tax when transferring preselling condos. It is only a matter of time before all major developers follow them.
Im interested to know if there is a new BIR rule to back these developers' action.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 09:02 AM   #1629
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Capital gains vs transfer tax

Maybe you have mixed up transfer tax with capital gains tax.
As buyer, you are only obliged to pay the transfer tax. The developer is probably collecting the transfer tax; not the capital gains tax.
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Old May 18th, 2018, 10:19 PM   #1630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azumiii View Post
One shouldnt pay capital gains tax if the title is still not under his name since techinally unit is still not his esp if he hasnt fully paid it yet. If he sells it before turnover or before paying turnover balance, developer is still the lawful owner of that unit. If developer demands you to pay CGT during time when you still havent fully settled your payments but have found a buyer willing to claim your rights/fully pay unit, I dont think paying CGT is lawful.

But if you're fully paid and developer has already transferred title to your name, by all means you are legally bound to pay capital gains tax to the BIR when you sell your unit to another.


I bought resale preselling units before and I know the difference between transfer of rights fee and CGT.

I was considering Alveo’s Solstice (was 125k/sqm back then) in early 2017 and was told by the agent that in Alveo, transfer of rights require payment of CGT. Concerned about the impact on resale liquidity of this extra 6% and hence, I didn’t buy Solstice in 2017 and bought units in Shang’s project instead.

Perhaps the Alveo agent communicated to me incorrectly. Nevertheless, I never again considered purchasing any preselling Ayala projects so this is never a real problem to me. And for buyers who plan to hold the preselling rights till completion, it is a non-issue as well.

Has anyone tried to sell their preselling Ayala condos recently?
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Old May 19th, 2018, 04:09 AM   #1631
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Secondary market is offering to buy a one-bedroom unit at around 4.5M.

I bought mine from the developer at 5.2M including tax.

If I want to resell, then I need to wait for more years to at least have a little profit if not break even.
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 12:05 AM   #1632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarahuma View Post
Secondary market is offering to buy a one-bedroom unit at around 4.5M.

I bought mine from the developer at 5.2M including tax.

If I want to resell, then I need to wait for more years to at least have a little profit if not break even.
Hi Tarahuma,
I am interested at 1 bdr at the Rise as well.
Did you purchase this recently? Im looking at the regular 1bdr and corner units.

Take care
JP
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Old May 22nd, 2018, 07:38 AM   #1633
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I got mine Aug last year hence the high price.
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Old May 24th, 2018, 05:04 PM   #1634
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What is the new hand over date of condo units? Mall is to open (partially) this December 2018
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Old May 26th, 2018, 03:09 AM   #1635
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Quote:
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What is the new hand over date of condo units? Mall is to open (partially) this December 2018


April 2020 as per official letter from Shang Properties mailed to a unit owner (haven’t received mine though).
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Old May 26th, 2018, 06:02 PM   #1636
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20 months delayed kung ganun.
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Old May 29th, 2018, 05:44 AM   #1637
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Topping off ceremony today!
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Old May 29th, 2018, 11:41 AM   #1638
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20 months delayed kung ganun.
Anyone know why it's delayed so long?
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Old May 30th, 2018, 04:00 AM   #1639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooFrank View Post
"6-7M condo and rent it out for 35k a month"

The market is now "out of joint"

Rents are falling, and developers are asking more and more money for their projects. As investors, we need to learn to just say No to these higher prices.

Collier's report has these figures for the market

QUARTER-- : Cap.Values: Rent psm: Yield-- :

Q3-2016-Act.: P 146.5 K : P 840 --- : 6.87%
Q3-2017-For. : P 138.8 K : P 795 --- : 6.87% - Forecast for 12 mos. from now

I usually seek a minimum yield of 8-10%, so these numbers are stretched and getting worse, quarter-by-quarter as Rents drift lower.

But what is really stretched are the prices on NEW projects, which are pushing up to P 165k, 170K and even higher for new projects. An agent I met this week was asking P190k psm for a project in Makati that was priced at P 150k psm about 18 months ago. And that asking price rose even when Rents were falling !
(When i asked who is buying these expensive properties, I was told most buyers these days are "from China" or maybe Korea.)

Maybe we should Tell the agents that they must buy a calculator and learn how to run Yields, else they are just wasting our time! (At least the time of Investors.)
== ==

If you pay P 6.5 Million for a property, and Rent it at P35,000 monthly, your Gross Yield is only: 6.46%
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDS_investor View Post
Agree with TooFrank – I wrote a couple of posts on this a some months ago (so no worries, I ll keep this one short) and I would add the following "details":

-Prices: For 3Q17, Colliers has noted price declines (!) in Makati CBD despite only 1 project effectively being turned over out of the 7 projects scheduled i.e the supply hit hasn’t come through yet but prices are already falling.
-Tracking the right thing: Colliers tracks “luxury 3BR unit” prices and rents.. these are a lot less oversupplied compared to studios and 1BR. Unfortunately, the supply of nearby of the Rise (Lerato, Air, Kroma, Eaton, etc) is mostly studio and 1br..
-Delays: There are delays across the board due to shortages in skilled labour. Brace yourself for more delays given all the announced infrastructure investments coming next year.. Your ROI may start 12-18m later.
-Interest rates: Borrowing costs are (very) likely to rise: Inflation is picking up, banks’ loan books are growing rapidly and funding for banks is getting more expensive. If we start seeing defaults rise in 12-18m, then credit conditions will tighten even further. So for those expecting to loan money, make sure you can afford this also with 100-200bps more expensive loans.
Interesting article yesterday: http://www.manilatimes.net/lighting-...t-bomb/299682/
-Given delays.. how easy it is to get a bank loan for an unfinished project? Will one have to go through the (very) expensive in-house financing?

What will the right rental price be in 2020.. Frankly I have no clue at all. But I would recommend to each buyer to properly do his risk management and consider some extreme scenarios like 1) what if I can’t rent it out for several months, 2) what if the right rent for a studio suddenly falls to 25k (studio is at the bottom of the “food chain” after 1br) 3) Can I afford 1-2% higher interest rate on a bank loan, 4) what’s the ROI from having interior design in such an environment? I d be patient and buy from rush sales in the secondary market in 1-2y. There is no reason to do pre-selling anymore since prices are unlikely to go up much further from here. Relax, save – you’re not too late, you’re too early for the good opportunities
Quote:
Originally Posted by Condodoc View Post
I agree with MDS_Investor on most of what he has said. Prudence and due diligence. There is much more studios and 1 BR than there are 2 or 3 BR, but then again, the demand is actually more for studios and 1 BR. But everyone still needs to be ready for prolonged vacancy.

With regards to Too_Frank's analysis....I have something to add. The yield he projected are good if the investment has only one income stream. Real estate properties actually have two: 1) rental income, and 2) rental appreciation. Even if there is no income coming in, there is steady appreciation of the property and therefore you are still creating (albeit still unrealised) returns on your investment. But of course, property appreciation is only realised when you sell the property, and property as you know, is not very liquid (difficult to encash - cash being the most liquid asset of all).
So unless you have deep pockets or another steady source of income (like a permanent job) one should not rely on the rental income unless you are diversified and most loans paid out. If you are relying on an income from a property while you are paying loan on that property, you have to study the returns as Too_Frank suggested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooFrank View Post
"Although rental rates cannot be predicted for the Rise, there is something that I can predict with a good degree of certainty: the price of the unit in the area..."
" Rental is volatile, but price appreciation is less so..."


Can you do it better than Colliers?
They are predicting a price drop of about 5% over the next 12 months for Makati as a whole. Perhaps if you are better than their analysts, they should offer you a job.

Also, if you are WRONG - which often happens with such forecasts - what sort of guarantee can you provide to those who might buy property based on your forecasts?

My thinking is, no one knows exactly where the market will be in 1-3 or 5 years. As the saying goes: "You pay your money, and you take your chance." Colliers doesn't like predicting a rental decline, and a price decline. It is bad for their business, I reckon. But they do it, because they can see an oversupply emerging. The interesting question is: how long will it last. I hope not too many years, and that the excess supply will be absorbed many months before The Rise is completed. But I am not going to claim to be as certain as you seem to think you are.
Interesting discussion you had last year guys.
This is the latest figure from Colliers.
Did we really have a decline?
The surge in pricing by developers since 2018 stepped in worries me when I should not since this is good for investors.

Any other recent analysis aside from Colliers?
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Old May 30th, 2018, 04:21 AM   #1640
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The Philippines is now in its 7th year of a house price boom

Quote:
Surprisingly, despite so much price appreciation, the Philippine housing market has still not recovered from the crash after the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis. Between 1997 and 2004, luxury condominium prices dropped 28% (52% inflation-adjusted), in the biggest property crash of all countries affected by the Asian Financial Crisis.

In current price terms, both rental rates and property values are back above 1997 levels. However residential property prices in 2017 are still 20% below pre-Asian Financial Crisis levels in real, inflation-adjusted terms.
https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/.../Price-History

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