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Old January 15th, 2007, 08:36 PM   #1
jrb
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The Regent | Bupa | Dock 9 | Salford Quays | 6 fl

Erm...........



It's a huge PDF. Scrolls very slow. (could my slow broadband though. it's driving me arrrrrrrrrgh! )

Btw. That's some density in that render. Don't forget Mediacity next door either. Their all lining up for a piece of the cake. Peel must know something we don't.

COMM
Applicant name: Peel Investments (North) Ltd
Ward: Ordsall
Grid Reference: 380973 397537
Case Officer: Kurt Partington
Telephone: 0161 779 4839
Location: Harbour City Eastern End Of Dock 9 Broadway Salford
Proposal: Erection of part 13/18/23 storey building comprising 300 - one and two bedroom residential apartments together with undercroft car parking, associated landscaping and construction of new, and alteration to existing vehicular access

http://documents.salford.gov.uk/docs/54041.pdf
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Old January 15th, 2007, 09:35 PM   #2
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How do you do it JRB, i checked twice today but as soon as they're up you're there. Anyway, here are some bits and bobs, i've highlighted some stuff in the text.







Quote:
The Proposed Scheme

3.1 The proposal is for a residential development consisting of 300 apartments
with associated car parking (163 spaces), access and landscaping.

3.2 The design philosophy underlying the proposed scheme is fully explained
in the Design and Access Statement. The building has a tri-symmetrical
shape and essentially comprises three cylindrical towers of different
heights joined together. It is a distinctive and individualistic design which
will further enhance both the Erie Basin Waterfront and The Quays
frontage.

3.3 The building has been designed in massing and scale to act as a visual
link
between the Victoria building on one side and the NV Buildings on the
other.
The lowest element of The Regent building is on the side adjacent
to the Victoria whilst it steps up to the other side to reflect the greater
height of the NV Buildings.

3.4 The rounded form of the building allows water views to many more
apartments than would normally be the case.
It also means that there is
no ‘rear’ elevation and all aspects of the building have a high quality
frontage. The siting and design of the building allow views through from
The Quays to the waterside.

3.5 The external materials will be predominantly red brick and blue glass to
reflect those of the Victoria and Alexandra buildings, whilst full wrap round
glazing on the western side of the building respects the approach taken
on the NV Buildings.

3.6 The high density of the building is appropriate to this prominent waterfront
location the waterfront and contributes to greater sustainability.
The Regent, Salford Quays
Planning Statement
S Wright Ltd
December 2006
6

3.7 The development provides 163 parking spaces, in line with the Council’s
standards. The parking spaces are located in the basement to promote
good levels of security and avoid visual intrusion. The development is in a
highly sustainable location well served by the Metrolink system and the
overall environment of Salford Quays has been designed to encourage
walking and cycling. It is therefore expected that a high proportion of the
journeys made by residents of The Regent will be by non-car means.

3.8 Access to the building for vehicles is from The Quays and there are public
pedestrian walkways located all around the building. The development is
fully compliant with Part M of the Building regulations and full access is
provided to all parts of the building.

3.9 The space around the building will have high standards of amenity and
landscaping. The building is surrounded by a private landscaped area
with additional amenity spaces provided at ground floor level, through
the use of decking, and also above the podium and on roof terraces. The
public realm is integrated with the existing waterfront landscape scheme.

3.10 The development will embrace sustainability in its construction and
management. The measures to be adopted include the use of solar
panels to generate electricity to create self sufficient public areas within
the building, grey water recycling, natural ventilation, and the use where
possible of recycled and locally sourced materials during construction.

3.11 The scheme has been designed in accordance with ‘Secured by Design’
principles. These include good passive security due to the outward-facing
nature of the building, clear distinction between public and private areas,
and clear, legible and well-lit footpaths with landscaping carefully
designed to avoid creating hiding places.


To be honest, I don't think i want to waste a building as a 'visual link' between two other buildings, what would be the point in that? On such a site i want something exciting, striking and contemporary. Jesus christ can you imagine the world if every building was a visual link.

How boring.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 09:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
To be honest, I don't think i want to waste a building as a 'visual link' between two other buildings, what would be the point in that? On such a site i want something exciting, striking and contemporary. Jesus christ can you imagine the world if every building was a visual link.

How boring.


No, we need buildings to visually relate to each other else what we will end up with is what we have at Dock 9.... a mini Dubai-ville. Unfortunately, on that basis, I don't actually think this new building actually does form a visual link in the proper sense. It merely fills a gap.

To be honest I see Dock 9 as a lost cause from an urban design standpoint. My expectations of the area are so low now I'd just be happy if this development at least manages to avoid the surface car parking and fortification of the NV buildings and actually attempts integration with the public realm. The Citylofts building was a step in the right direction.... Im not sure what this one is.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 09:51 PM   #4
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I think its ok....another sign of what is coming. I expect many more development proposals between here and Castlefields in the near future.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 09:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyOne View Post
No, we need buildings to visually relate to each other else what we will end up with is what we have at Dock 9.... a mini Dubai-ville. Unfortunately, on that basis, I don't actually think this new building actually does form a visual link in the proper sense. It merely fills a gap.
Of course buildings should visually relate to each other, but to allocate all aesthetic characteristics to blending two buildings toghether strikes me as abit absurd. Whilst you say it doesn't do this they've cleary tried, with the glass and brick. Just looks stupid.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #6
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Of course buildings should visually relate to each other, but to allocate all aesthetic characteristics to blending two buildings toghether strikes me as abit absurd. Whilst you say it doesn't do this they've cleary tried, with the glass and brick. Just looks stupid.
The "visual link" explanation was used only in relation to the massing and scale of the building I think. ie a lower rise bit near the Victoria building and higher bit next to NV. Its all rather crude and tokenistic. They could have used any number of different masses and heights and used exactly the same justification.

Its all rather academic though because as per Chapel Wharf this whole area has been compromised by allowing developers to build more or less what they like, free from the constraints and opportunites presented by a proper masterplan. Mediacity will change all this but the remainder of Dock 9 will a series of disparate apartment and office buildings in a sea of poor quality open space offering nothing in terms of streetscape or a hospitable environment for the pedestrian. "Dubai-ville" indeed.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 10:35 PM   #7
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I was just going to post about this. I saw the notice on the lamp post next to the site this morning. They will be a big rush to build as muh housinh as posiable in the area now.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 10:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
The "visual link" explanation was used only in relation to the massing and scale of the building I think. ie a lower rise bit near the Victoria building and higher bit next to NV. Its all rather crude and tokenistic. They could have used any number of different masses and heights and used exactly the same justification.
There's also a bit about the visual link between colour and materials...

3.5 The external materials will be predominantly red brick and blue glass to reflect those of the Victoria and Alexandra buildings, whilst full wrap round glazing on the western side of the building respects the approach taken on the NV Buildings.

But i agree with you it's extremely crude.
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Old January 15th, 2007, 10:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Its all rather academic though because as per Chapel Wharf this whole area has been compromised by allowing developers to build more or less what they like, free from the constraints and opportunites presented by a proper masterplan. Mediacity will change all this but the remainder of Dock 9 will a series of disparate apartment and office buildings in a sea of poor quality open space offering nothing in terms of streetscape or a hospitable environment for the pedestrian. "Dubai-ville" indeed.
Why was a masterplan never produced? Don't Peel own most of this land, you'd think they would? It's quite depressing really, i was thinking similar things when looking at the plan of the area. Such a waste.
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Old January 16th, 2007, 12:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jourdan View Post
I like it :p
I like it too - it's like a sixties vision of the future. Which is good.

I like curvy things done with brick.
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Old January 16th, 2007, 12:31 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kids in the riot View Post
Why was a masterplan never produced? Don't Peel own most of this land, you'd think they would? It's quite depressing really, i was thinking similar things when looking at the plan of the area. Such a waste.
Unless something has changed Salford CC own the vast majority of the land at the Quays.
Ironically they bought it off the Manchester Ship Canal Company (which turned into Peel) for 1.5 mil back in 1983. The Quays have been propping up Salford ever since. Shrewd business.

As far as using Victoria etc as the 'inspiration' for the design!!!!!!!

**** me - thats like asking medical students to aspire to be like Harold Shipman (or something).
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Old January 16th, 2007, 12:38 AM   #12
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That works....



That doesn't....



Then again, what do I know?
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Old January 16th, 2007, 01:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Longford View Post
Unless something has changed Salford CC own the vast majority of the land at the Quays.
Ironically they bought it off the Manchester Ship Canal Company (which turned into Peel) for 1.5 mil back in 1983. The Quays have been propping up Salford ever since. Shrewd business.
So why didn't scc produce a full masterplan when it all started, or a few years back when these developments on dock nine started? If they could stop schemes like this now maybe they could at least bring some order to the dock?
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Old January 16th, 2007, 01:58 AM   #14
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Given that the neighbouring proposed KW Linfoot scheme was kicked back because of the lack of affordable housing, I wonder what will happen with this?
That occurred to me too. The number of smaller apartment types was an issue too as I recall.

On the masterplan issue I don't see why they cannot commission someone to come up with one - if only to guide future development in very broad terms and give a signal to the market as to what sort of aspiration the council have for the area (underpinned by sound urban design principles) and also what sort of development will be supported. There was a masterplan for Mosely Street drawn up last year which obviously a well established area so I don't see why they cannot produce something for the Dock 9. Despite it being relatively well established, it is still developing.

Compare and contrast Dock 9 with Clarence Dock in Leeds. Okay Clarence Dock might be a puddle in comparison and some of the individual buildings there bland in the extreme, but the benefits of co-ordinating development to a predetermined materplan are self evident. The public realm together with the intensive mix of uses seems to have worked really well there to produce something which I'd imagine is a much superior experience to walk around. I know its foolish to compare apples with pears but there are always lessons to be learnt and ways to improve.
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Old January 16th, 2007, 06:44 AM   #15
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I'm all for street-level 'integration' between buildings. It should be pleasant to walk through a project that involves a group of buildings.
I'm not sure about these so called 'master plans' though. If the 'plan' was drawn up say twenty years ago it could be argued that said plan is out of date therefor inapplicable, unless of course it has been regularly updated which is unlikely, as how can you update hypotheses?

The charm of English towns and villages that attract tourists from the world over has a lot to do with the randomness and distinct lack of any semblance of a plan or uniformity.

Why change a winning formula?

As long as the developers are following sensible construction rules and not totally messing up potentially good areas, ie. sacrificing quality for filthy lucre and showing contempt for the general public then I think planning should be kept to 'guideline' status.

All this 'master planning' smacks of Bolshevism to me.

I'm not advocating the dismissal of a whole industry, but let's get back to our random hap-hazzard way of doing things and not be told what we can and can't have by a bunch of bureauocrats who 'know what's best for us'.

Sermon over.
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Old January 17th, 2007, 12:26 AM   #16
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Nice. Thanks jrb, Kitr.

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Old January 17th, 2007, 12:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyOne View Post
That occurred to me too. The number of smaller apartment types was an issue too as I recall.

On the masterplan issue I don't see why they cannot commission someone to come up with one - if only to guide future development in very broad terms and give a signal to the market as to what sort of aspiration the council have for the area (underpinned by sound urban design principles) and also what sort of development will be supported. There was a masterplan for Mosely Street drawn up last year which obviously a well established area so I don't see why they cannot produce something for the Dock 9. Despite it being relatively well established, it is still developing.

Compare and contrast Dock 9 with Clarence Dock in Leeds. Okay Clarence Dock might be a puddle in comparison and some of the individual buildings there bland in the extreme, but the benefits of co-ordinating development to a predetermined materplan are self evident. The public realm together with the intensive mix of uses seems to have worked really well there to produce something which I'd imagine is a much superior experience to walk around. I know its foolish to compare apples with pears but there are always lessons to be learnt and ways to improve.
Thanks sleepyone, i like your ideas, i think even piccadilly basin (we're getting even smaller here) and castelfeild basin may present better strolling experiences than the quays. I think what gets me the most about this, is that it'll be decades till anyone can justify demolishing any building on dock 9, the same mistakes keep being made so the time at which the quays'll reach their full potential keeps getting put back. So yeh, a masterplan now would be helpful.
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Old January 17th, 2007, 02:06 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Miles Platting View Post
I'm all for street-level 'integration' between buildings. It should be pleasant to walk through a project that involves a group of buildings.
I'm not sure about these so called 'master plans' though. If the 'plan' was drawn up say twenty years ago it could be argued that said plan is out of date therefor inapplicable, unless of course it has been regularly updated which is unlikely, as how can you update hypotheses?

The charm of English towns and villages that attract tourists from the world over has a lot to do with the randomness and distinct lack of any semblance of a plan or uniformity.

Why change a winning formula?

As long as the developers are following sensible construction rules and not totally messing up potentially good areas, ie. sacrificing quality for filthy lucre and showing contempt for the general public then I think planning should be kept to 'guideline' status.

All this 'master planning' smacks of Bolshevism to me.

I'm not advocating the dismissal of a whole industry, but let's get back to our random hap-hazzard way of doing things and not be told what we can and can't have by a bunch of bureauocrats who 'know what's best for us'.

Sermon over.
I think in medieval times, when our touristy towns were built, people didn't really mind (i don't think???) being crammed into tiny, dense streets and buildings. There was a sort of respect/acceptance as to what should come with city-living. Clearly people now expect alot more and we're seeing this at groung level on dock nine. (parking under NV, the gardens surrounding this building, etc), I think medieval towns and the like were planned, in that people just didn't or weren't allowed milk sites for all they were worth, be radical etc. there were appreciated values of form and style, however it seems that greedy developers on dock nine are allowed to do whatever the hell they want, look at harbour city, for example.
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Old January 20th, 2007, 11:30 AM   #19
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Hope these will be built better than the NV buildings. The cladding fell off the first one in the wind. So now the flat side facing Metrolink is without cladding. Apparently a few cars were damaged when it all came crashing down.
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Old February 13th, 2007, 07:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biosonic View Post
From Architect's Journal:

Posted by Bio in the main thread , so i'll throw it in here .

I quite like these ,, but 4 26 storey blocks ? why not just do 2 52 storey ones instead?

The thread name needs changing ,now these have been approved at these heights.
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