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Old December 4th, 2008, 10:44 PM   #1
r2
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EU vs US External Debt (deficit)

Member State External Debt (in millions of dollars)
Austria 752.5
Belgium 1,313,000.00
Bulgaria 34,880.00
Cyprus 26,970.00
Czech Republic 74,700.00
Denmark 492,600.00
Estonia 24,820.00
Finland 271,200.00
France 4,396,000.00
Germany 4,489,000.00
Greece 86,720.00
Hungary 125,900.00
Ireland 1,841,000.00
Italy 996,000.00
Latvia 33,530.00
Lithuania 27,190.00
Luxembourg no data
Malta 189.00
Netherlands 2,277,000.00
Poland 169,800.00
Portugal 461,200.00
Romania 74,540.00
Slovakia 36,630.00
Slovenia 40,420.00
Spain 1,084,000.00
Sweden 598,200.00
United Kingdom 10,450,000.00

Total EU External Debt 18,302,319.00 million $

Total US External Debt 13,703,567.00 million $

Figures from Wikipedia: "External debt" is defined as the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in foreign currency, goods, or services (see definition). The list is based on The World Factbook unless otherwise noted. Source [1] accessed on October 2008. For informational purposes several non-sovereign entities are also included in this list.

According to these figures, the EU is presently 4,598,752.00 million $ further in the deficit hole than the US.

Discuss :-)
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Old December 4th, 2008, 10:56 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by r2 View Post
According to these figures, the EU is presently 4,598,752.00 million $ further in the deficit hole than the US.

Discuss :-)
First of all debt and deficit isn't the same, far from it actually..

And second comparing a continent or group with a single nation makes very little sense in my opinion..


In any case my nation's BOP balance is positive so what debt we have isn't of much concern to me.. we got nations such as the US paying our debt trough interest rates
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Old December 4th, 2008, 10:56 PM   #3
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Citytalk?
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Old December 4th, 2008, 11:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by FREKI View Post
First of all debt and deficit isn't the same, far from it actually..

And second comparing a continent or group with a single nation makes very little sense in my opinion..


In any case my nation's BOP balance is positive so what debt we have isn't of much concern to me.. we got nations such as the US paying our debt trough interest rates
You're right ... it's not the same ... my apologies.

I was under the impression that the EU is a quasi nation-state entity. That's why I put the figures together for comparison out of sheer curiosity. This isn't a EU vs US thread or anything like that. A simple intellectual exercise that I was interested in hearing other perspectives on.

According to that table, Denmark has a total external debt of $492,600.00 million.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 11:05 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 10ROT View Post
Citytalk?
Yeah ... couldn't think of anywhere else to put it.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 11:40 PM   #6
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I was under the impression that the EU is a quasi nation-state entity
You were under the wrong impression!
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Old December 4th, 2008, 11:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r2 View Post

Total EU External Debt 18,302,319.00 million $

Total US External Debt 13,703,567.00 million $

According to these figures, the EU is presently 4,598,752.00 million $ further in the deficit hole than the US.

Discuss :-)
I would like the external debt per capita... because US 302 millions, EU 501 millions.
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Old December 4th, 2008, 11:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Mekky II View Post
I would like the external debt per capita... because US 302 millions, EU 501 millions.
Havent you learned on this forum yet that the only per capita americans "approve" is GDP? In every other case,absolute numbers rule.
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Old December 5th, 2008, 12:08 AM   #9
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Aren't you talking about Europeans? They seem to love absolute numbers (especially when it comes to tourism and GDP)
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Old December 5th, 2008, 12:10 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mekky II View Post
I would like the external debt per capita... because US 302 millions, EU 501 millions.
Here's a link where you can find that information and more. There's a table with most every nation's data in it. Pretty interesting stuff as it shows that the US per capita debt is actually not as bad as many EU member states. I had always just assumed that the Bush dynasty had rendered the US the most horrific example of a debtor state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._external_debt
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Old December 5th, 2008, 12:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r2 View Post

Discuss :-)

If you want to treat the EU as one entity you should subtract all the 'external debt' which EU countries owe among each other.

Anyway, do you (or anybody else here) actually know exactly what 'external debt' is? I took my economic classes and I am familiar with many terms but I still can't comprehend entirely what 'external debt' is after reading this defintion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_debt

However, the implications of running a high 'external debt' seem to differ significantly from running a high national debt or a trade deficit. It seems you try to establish a connection between these very different forms of debt.

Last edited by Mercutio; December 5th, 2008 at 12:27 AM.
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Old December 5th, 2008, 12:22 AM   #12
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USA GDP
13,807,550
Ext Debt
13,703,567

EU GDP
16,905,620
EU Ext Debt
18,302,319

It seems that differences are not enormous... both sides follow their capacities... But one thing is clear, english abuse us.
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Old December 5th, 2008, 12:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
If you want to treat the EU as one entity you should subtract all the 'external debt' which EU countries owe among each other.

Anyway, do you (or anybody else here) actually know exactly what 'external debt' is? I took my economic classes and I am familiar with many terms but I still can't comprehend entirely what 'external debt' is after reading this defintion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_debt

However, the implications of running a high 'external debt' seem to differ significantly from running a high national debt or a trade deficit. It seems you try to establish a connection between these very different forms of debt.
THANK YOU ... EXACTLY the type of dialogue I was hoping this thread would generate!
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Old December 5th, 2008, 12:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
If you want to treat the EU as one entity you should subtract all the 'external debt' which EU countries owe among each other.
That is what I thought too. The added up external debts of each member state are certainly not the external debts of the EU as a block. One can presume that most of the external debt of EU countries are owe to other member states.
I reckon that these "external debt" increased sharply when the single market began to work.
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Old December 5th, 2008, 01:06 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
That is what I thought too. The added up external debts of each member state are certainly not the external debts of the EU as a block. One can presume that most of the external debt of EU countries are owe to other member states.
I reckon that these "external debt" increased sharply when the single market began to work.
that's something sure ! it's like exportations of germany alone and EU as a block, numbers differ...
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Old December 5th, 2008, 01:32 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Anyway, do you (or anybody else here) actually know exactly what 'external debt' is? I took my economic classes and I am familiar with many terms but I still can't comprehend entirely what 'external debt' is.
"External Debt entry gives the total public and private debt owed to nonresidents repayable in foreign currency, goods, or services. These figures are calculated on an exchange rate basis, i.e., not in purchasing power parity (PPP) terms."
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Old December 5th, 2008, 02:53 AM   #17
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Doesn't the EU have a population of around 500 million compared to the USA's 300 million making these figures nonsense. In fact per capita the EU has lower debt.
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Old December 5th, 2008, 04:32 AM   #18
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If the focus is to compare the health of state finances on both sides of the Atlantic shouldn't we look at cumulative EU member state public debt vs public debt in The US? I'm not sure what external (but intra EU) public and private debt comparing will tell us, not so sure about adding up member state debt for that matter either.
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Old December 5th, 2008, 10:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r2 View Post
Yeah ... couldn't think of anywhere else to put it.
So you choose to pollute this forum with it?

Did you ever think about how much of this external debt of the EU nations is to eachother...

idiotic thread...
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Old December 5th, 2008, 03:33 PM   #20
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EU Public Debt as Percentage of GDP

Member State Public Dept % of GDP (2007 est)
Austria 59.10
Belgium 84.6
Bulgaria 10.5
Cyprus 59.6
Czech Republic 26.0
Denmark 26.0
Estonia 3.4
Finland 35.9
France 63.9
Germany 64.9
Greece 89.5
Hungary 67.0
Ireland 24.9
Italy 104.0
Latvia 7.4
Lithuania 17.3
Luxembourg 6.4
Malta no data
Netherlands 45.5
Poland 43.1
Portugal 63.6
Romania 13.0
Slovakia 35.9
Slovenia 23.6
Spain 36.2
Sweden 41.7
United Kingdom 43.6
Average % GDP Public Debt 42.18 ... not bad at all

Public debt defined as debt owed by any and all levels of state (provincial), local and national gonvernments.

Figures compiled from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_public_debt

The US public debt is
2007 9,008 BILLION $ 65.5
2008 10,024.7 BILLION $ 72.5 (EST) % of GDP

In summation ... the US public debt as a percentage of GDP is almost double that of the EU
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