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Old July 8th, 2015, 08:27 AM   #3561
golosa
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Abkhazian plate
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Old July 8th, 2015, 05:14 PM   #3562
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Abkhazian plate

Very Russian style!
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Old July 17th, 2015, 05:02 PM   #3563
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Which city in Sweden is the vehicle license plate: NKH 4** ?
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Old July 19th, 2015, 11:13 AM   #3564
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Quote:
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Which city in Sweden is the vehicle license plate: NKH 4** ?
The only thing you can tell with the first lettter "N" is that the vehicle was registered in 1988 or after that.



Norwegian licenseplate without the flag.


Finnish euroband licenseplate


German Licenseplate-Usually the bigger the city the less are the first letters in the area code.
One exception is the Code for Hannover that is H although Hamburg is a bigger city.


B for Berlin.


Few standard licenseplates are yellow like in NL. I think the only other country using yellow plates in Europe is the UK.


Licenseplate from Martin district, south central Slovakia.

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Old July 30th, 2015, 11:12 AM   #3565
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Is there any rational reason why numbers on greek licence plates runs in interval 1000-9999 lefting out combination starting with 0xxx. Is not it wasting of numbers?
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Old July 30th, 2015, 01:17 PM   #3566
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Spotted these in Värnamo, Sweden in June.

Iranian trucks

Iran by gustavmartinsson, on Flickr
Iran by gustavmartinsson, on Flickr
Iran by gustavmartinsson, on Flickr
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Old August 2nd, 2015, 02:50 AM   #3567
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Quote:
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Is there any rational reason why numbers on greek licence plates runs in interval 1000-9999 lefting out combination starting with 0xxx. Is not it wasting of numbers?
In some easteuropean counties retained the habit to start number combinations with 1 like in Croatia ZG#100-A and sometines it's due to avoid confusion like in ex Yugoslavia BG*10-00; BG*100-00; BG*100-000 but not, for example, BG*010-00. I do not see other reason but that habit for Greece because their system is pretty clear (can't be any confusion like in old Belgian 000-III and OOO-111); also can't see the reason for avoiding something like EEA-0000, specially because in some zones plates were exhausted so they issued neighboring-zone plates until obtaining new labels for zone (in Greece one zone can get several letter-codes).

Interesting - if we going to logic city-number (like in Switzerland) with 1 on start than first issues should be something ZG#101-A or BG*10-01 (like in Romania 1966-1992, I think). However, in Yugoslavia (YU - SFRY and later FRY, SCG and finally SRB) four-digit plates could start with zero, but only for government vehicles (BG=01-15), so we have full million combinations per zone* (plus million for trailers, and 100'000 for motorbikes). In Croatia is allowed to get vanity plate with zero (ZG#007-JB).

* Usually - depends of municipality government another 100'000 for agricultural vehicles, 100'000 for agricultural non-powered machines, and 100'000 for mopeds.

But this is already too far from your question...
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Old August 2nd, 2015, 02:59 AM   #3568
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What is going on in Switzerland? I read that their biggest zone is about to reach one million of issued combinations. Will they introduce 2 letter with 7 digits?

I know that they have option of reusing of old combinations like in Swedish system, for example, but I think that this practice in CH is optional/vanity, not mandatory.
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Old August 2nd, 2015, 10:01 AM   #3569
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Quote:
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I know that they have option of reusing of old combinations like in Swedish system, for example, but I think that this practice in CH is optional/vanity, not mandatory.
Old plates were also reused in the Moscow City and Moscow Oblast (in codes 77 and 50 respectively). But it was a difficult procedure both for road police inspectors who wiewed vehicle registration databases containing many errors, and for manufacturer of LPs, who issued plates selectively (not by 999 pairs in selected literal combinations).
Finally, our current registration system was modified just a little: leading digit 7 was added to regional codes to issue 777th plates as prestigious in the Moscow City.
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Old August 3rd, 2015, 11:44 PM   #3570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 037 View Post
In some easteuropean counties retained the habit to start number combinations with 1 like in Croatia ZG#100-A and sometines it's due to avoid confusion like in ex Yugoslavia BG*10-00; BG*100-00; BG*100-000 but not, for example, BG*010-00. I do not see other reason but that habit for Greece because their system is pretty clear (can't be any confusion like in old Belgian 000-III and OOO-111); also can't see the reason for avoiding something like EEA-0000, specially because in some zones plates were exhausted so they issued neighboring-zone plates until obtaining new labels for zone (in Greece one zone can get several letter-codes).

Interesting - if we going to logic city-number (like in Switzerland) with 1 on start than first issues should be something ZG#101-A or BG*10-01 (like in Romania 1966-1992, I think). However, in Yugoslavia (YU - SFRY and later FRY, SCG and finally SRB) four-digit plates could start with zero, but only for government vehicles (BG=01-15), so we have full million combinations per zone* (plus million for trailers, and 100'000 for motorbikes). In Croatia is allowed to get vanity plate with zero (ZG#007-JB).

* Usually - depends of municipality government another 100'000 for agricultural vehicles, 100'000 for agricultural non-powered machines, and 100'000 for mopeds.

But this is already too far from your question...
Omitting the 0000 - 0999 serie would have sense if there was three digit system earlier. Lets say, there was a car with licence plate NEX-175.
In case, the system had been suplemented by fourth digit, omission of first thousand would have been reasonable. Otherwise, the licence plates NEX-175 and NEX-0175 would have been very similar.

Afaik, Greece had system of two letters and four digits replaced in 80s with system of three letters and four digits.
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Old August 4th, 2015, 12:02 AM   #3571
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Spotted in Belgium :P



And this one in UK:


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Been in: A, B, BIH, BR, C, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, F, FL, GB, GE, GBR, H, HR, I, L, LT, MC, MEX, MNE, N, NL, P, PL, RO, RD, RSM, S, SK, SLO, SRB, T, TR, UA, USA, V
Driven in: A, B, BIH, BR, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, F, FL, GB, GBR, H, HR, I, L, MC, MNE, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, SK, SRB, T, TR, USA

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Old August 4th, 2015, 11:56 PM   #3572
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Could someone help in identifying what are these plates and where are they from? Thanks


upload image online free


upload photo
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Old August 5th, 2015, 11:12 AM   #3573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatesMontenegro View Post
Could someone help in identifying what are these plates and where are they from? Thanks
The only licenseplates that have 3 letters followed by 3 digits are from either Sweden, Hungary, Lithuania or Finland. The ones above look somewhat similar to the latest swedish license plates, but without the dot and there is too much space on the sides. My guess is that they are personal license plates or fake.
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Old August 6th, 2015, 05:21 PM   #3574
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I think there are not swedish license plates font nor finish nor hungarian or lithuanian. For sure they look strange...
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Old August 7th, 2015, 07:53 PM   #3575
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Just for fun I've made how would have licence plates of former countries looked like in current fashion. For now The Cold war era.

Czechoslovakia


East Germany


Soviet Union


Yugoslavia


Trieste
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Old August 7th, 2015, 11:49 PM   #3576
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^
Nice what-if.

This reminds me again... I still believe that we in Serbia should keep YU design and system - adjusted, of course. That one was with much better readability (see shape and size of fonts), without silly duplication (in new several plates could have, at first glance, same combination due to O/0, D/Đ... or, machine-reading AC001BG is legal plate for Belgrade trailer or Aleksinac car... not to mention mess with agricultural and vanity plates) and with less possibility to fake (see geometry of both).

Discreet, neater design of them, which fits everywhere, is another plus, next to the concentration on the essential purpose. Also best looking plates, together with Swiss and maybe old Polish.

------ ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatesMontenegro View Post
Could someone help in identifying what are these plates and where are they from? Thanks
Probably Croatian font (easy to see from shape of pretty unique grapheme 1). I can't see - are letters in red? Maybe attempt to made fake old Belgian plate or new vanity (also fake).

------ ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Omitting the 0000 - 0999 serie would have sense if there was three digit system earlier. Lets say, there was a car with licence plate NEX-175.
In case, the system had been suplemented by fourth digit, omission of first thousand would have been reasonable. Otherwise, the licence plates NEX-175 and NEX-0175 would have been very similar.

Afaik, Greece had system of two letters and four digits replaced in 80s with system of three letters and four digits.
Greeks use three letters and three numerals for motorbikes. However, they usually use different area codes for it, and there's no dash, so your question is still open...

------ ------

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Originally Posted by 037 View Post
Today I saw 2011-on system Serbian taxi plate from Belgrade (I'll randomize last 2 digits) BG+9214-TX. After just few years...

Does anybody have idea how it will be after expend of all combinations available? TX plates for taxi were optional at the beginnings of the application of the law, but they have become mandatory very soon in almost every city. Once again back on the old application of new system or again introduction of even newer one? Or maybe reusing/recirculation of combinations...

Just T instead TX would ensure 109998 instead 10998 combinations... and cleaner system. But now is too late for that.
And there's my answer. If we after all wanted letters on numeric side of plate we could use just T for taxis - but no, let's put one more letter which is not in our alphabet and which at least 50% of population can't read or read it on Cyrillic. Good job!

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Old August 8th, 2015, 10:34 AM   #3577
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Serbian plates are just wasted opportunity to improve some things. I am really disappointed. The government forced owners to do a quick changeover (within one year) and it seems the system is not sustainable.
I also don't like the font. It is much better than FE-Schrift, but the glyphs are ridiculously narrow and therefore not properly legible. I mean, I can recognize the Serbian plates from far distance, but it is hard to read them. Without mention they used the glyphs with accents. I also don't like the "SRB" abbreviation. Why someone chooses the three-letter abbreviation if there is enough two-letter abbreviations? RS is not used by any country.

If it is true that you can have the same plate on trailer and on the car, the system is fail..

The regions should be equitable in terms of number of cars. I know it is hard to do in case of huge cities (eg Beograd) but if the city is much different from other areas, the system should have been different (e.g. B instead of BG with one more letter at the end).

Macedonia is another fail. Despite the ugliness of the font and whole design, they chose the system that will not be exhausted in next four centuries. The previous one was better one. If they wanted to keep the system they should have created more areas.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 05:27 PM   #3578
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This can't be short, sorry. Some facts and little of my opinion.

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I also don't like the font. It is much better than FE-Schrift, but the glyphs are ridiculously narrow and therefore not properly legible.
Except zero - that we now use is variation of Prussian semiofficial font from 1830s (I can't find name now, as I remember there's something with R) which was base for Railroad font from 1905/1906 and later family of DIN 1451 (1930s-on). Almost same font is in use in Croatia for "Proba" plates (temp.).

One of main trouble with this font is that we use it forced as monospace - which that font isn't. Normally we should pick real monospace, we even develop at least one new (next to 1961 YU) for plates in early 1990s (if someone remember variations of project "dark blue on light blue plates").

Second - graphemes are way too small, height is only 7,4cm (width varies - not monospace - but it's way too unequal and, in general, small). There's no official international request for plate-fonts, but is taken as recommended standard for ovals from 1968 Vienna Convention: Indianarabic numerals, Latin letters, 4/8cm (except for 1 and I) and 1cm thickness of lines in graphemes.

I must point out that our 1961-2010 font meets all this requests/recommendations.

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Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Without mention they used the glyphs with accents.
That's letters, but I understand that, from English alphabet point of view, they are accents. That is against 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic, but it is tolerated for registration zones if can't cause confusion - like in Germany: for example if there's ČA, ĐA and KŠ, there must not be CA, DA and KS. Using that in numeral part of combination is, at least, strange.

Result: for example, we have legal combination which is internationally BC001CC, but could be any of these 18: BČ001CC, BČ001CČ, BČ001CĆ, BČ001ČC, BČ001ČČ, BČ001ČĆ, BČ001ĆC, BČ001ĆČ, BČ001ĆĆ, BĆ001CC, BĆ001CČ, BĆ001CĆ, BĆ001ČC, BĆ001ČČ, BĆ001ČĆ, BĆ001ĆC, BĆ001ĆČ and BĆ001ĆĆ. All this are already issued. Not to mention possible mess if we get new BC zone - not 18 but 27 duplicates. Again - not to mention trailers...

Reason for using this (and equally unjustified W, X, and Y) is in idea for application of Cyrillic script in 2007 (in start of development of 2010 system). When authors realized that Cyrillic is against international agreements they quickly changed to Latin, but there's a catch: Serbian Cyrillic have 30 graphemes as SRB Latin, but Latin have digraphs (Lj, Nj, Dž). So, due to lack of combination, next to Č, Ć, Š, Đ, and Ž they introduced X, Y and W (not in Serbian Latin; in Serbian Cyrillic X is H, Y is similar to U and there's no official way to read W ["duplo v", "duplo ve", "dablju", "dabl ve", "ve"... but V is "ve" also]). Small Cyrillic letters are used to repeat just registration zone code, reduced to decoration (NIНИ044YĆ).

When public pointed out on problem to authorities, official representative answered that symbols are not things for regualr citizens and they can use "triangles and arrows" [sic] if they decide so.

I'll again point out that our 1961-2010 system does not have this problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
I also don't like the "SRB" abbreviation. Why someone chooses the three-letter abbreviation if there is enough two-letter abbreviations? RS is not used by any country.
Every country have two-letter and three-letter abbreviation, some could have one-letter, also. From those one is selected for oval - international mark in traffic. We choose SRB because it is linked with our first one - SB - and SRB more direct associate to Serbia than RS.

Main marks that were in circulation during choosing were SRB and SPB for three-letter, and SS, SX, CP, RS and KS for two-letter; additional request were that they must be related. Now is easy to see why we select SRB, and only related two-letter mark is RS. Public did not wanted SX, SS is recognized as good but corrupted, CP was only Cyrillic related (Cyr. SR), KS was there only because of Kosovo and Metohija... so - RS.

Regarding this, it's still not clear why we change Y to YU in 1951 (SB -> SHS -> Y -> YU/JUG -> CS(never used)/SCG -> RS/SRB - ovals bolded).

Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
If it is true that you can have the same plate on trailer and on the car, the system is fail..
Not same plate but same reg. combination on the plate. This is problem in machine reading, because our does not support dashes, shields and colors (often nor even diff. between Č and C), so several plates are read as one. Again: you have to record combination, color of plate, color of font, and position of shield and dash; just one of these (combination) is not enough.

Some examples:

BG101BG is normal and trailer; normal is BG+101-BG and trailer is BG-101+BG (here I put "+" for shield). In theory it can be third and fourth one: white on red BG+101-BG and BG-101+BG for abnormal measures vehicles (in practice they quickly switch to OO mark, but again OO is reserved for Asylum seekers so we have new doubling). See art. 46 of regulation. Parallel use of all four/six is legal; parallel use of first two is practiced.

KG70070 is motorcycle and moped; KG+70-070 is motorcycle and black-on-yellow KG+700-70 is moped. Parallel use of both is legal and practiced.

VAĐX001, KVOOO01, AC11AAA and similar could be light-agricultural, agricultural/working machine, agricultural trailer or vanity because by art. 28 of regulation only TX, RP and RPE is banned in vanity plates combination. Parallel use of all together is legal and practiced.

...

Regulation about registration of motor vehicles and trailers (Serbian):

http://www.paragraf.rs/propisi/pravi...ih_vozila.html

Once more I will point out that our 1961-2010 does not have this problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
The regions should be equitable in terms of number of cars. I know it is hard to do in case of huge cities (eg Beograd) but if the city is much different from other areas, the system should have been different (e.g. B instead of BG with one more letter at the end).
Main trouble with BG zone is that, in addition to fact that covers our biggest city, also covers three other sub-cities (Lazarevac, Obrenovac and Mladenovac) which are only administrative connected to Belgrade. I do not see reason why they can't get own zone, maybe together with some other municipalities which declared same wish. BG area is simply so big that its size corrupt idea of registration zones.

Other problem with system is lack of reusing of combinations. Biggest zone (BG) does not have more than 400'000 active combinations, but since using of plates is limited to 7 years it will be exhausted, no matter what.

Around 1992 we start to search for solution of problem of exhaustion of 1961 system, with three main ideas: new system, reusing of combination, and adding letters (like in old Italian). Reusing of combinations were practiced in 1961 system, but, de facto, just for vanity plates (usually 4 number ones: KŠ*12-10). Law from 1982 leaves open the possibility for reusing of any combination after pause of 5 or 7 years between active use. Nothing has been done on this issue because there was enough combinations, and we 1998 switch from five-point star to tricolor (reusing from zero) so problem got even more distant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volodaaaa View Post
Serbian plates are just wasted opportunity to improve some things. I am really disappointed.
+1

Actually, new system is so bad that it does not deserves longer comment than this. Introducing of 4th and now 5th numeral and letters in vanity plates gives him possibility to several times mark every car on Earth with BG plates, but it miss about everything else.

.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 10:41 PM   #3579
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Nice analysis. I just wanted to point out that system that come across unsustainable problems in three years since adoption is bad.

Putting cyrilic is also not wise. Even Russia refuse it. But Serbia had still chance to go Greek/Bulgarian way (although you would lose some letters). I also noticed that some areas are too big while some too small. But this is problem in Slovakia too.

We also encounter lack of combinations in case of Bratislava, but more codes for regional seats have been introduced along with the new plates in 1997. Our system is very strict so I proposed to replace one number with letter. You'll increase the capacity by 3 times. But no. But we exhausted BA combination in 13 years and another 5 combinations are reserved so it is not that bad.
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Old August 10th, 2015, 11:18 PM   #3580
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About the Slovak system, tt was better to go on with BA for Bratislava, maybe they could adopt the croatian system and put 4 numbers and one letter, or reverse with BA - AA 000. BL is still ok, but then? BD, BT?
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