[Maxants]

2SPS - Yey or ney

I put only 2 options since the only real 3rd option - compromise by keeping century house and destroying its neighbours - is supper unlikely given the amount of effort that has gone into the current job.

 

[Maxants]

Oh golly - its neck and neck with one vote for each!!!

 

[Slow Burn]

I can't really answer. I'm nit bothered about century house but I'm not at all into the 2sps proposal

 

[Maxants]

I can't really answer. I'm nit bothered about century house but I'm not at all into the 2sps proposal

Yea, but thats why I think this is such an interesting issue, if it was demolishing a warehouse and building a piccadilly tower then there would a lot less debate

 

[moveupandon]

2SPS - Yey or ney

I put only 2 options since the only real 3rd option - compromise by keeping century house and destroying its neighbours - is supper unlikely given the amount of effort that has gone into the current job.

I still think you should add in compromise!

This is what a city, developers, the Council and the public should be able to do.

It's a small building, just out of English Heritage's remit.

But why would changing plans so people in a city do not have to feel so disenfranchised be such a big deal?

e.g. make it 18 or more floors for example instead of 12 and keep Century House to respect the past and respect the future.

Three ugly buildings in the middle NO-ONE would be fussing about could clearly go!

There is a lot to feel disenfranchised about. Surely that's why the last local elections had the lowest turn out ever when Lucy Powell was elected.

To revise plans and to respect people would be useful.

Lot's don't come on this website though so not a fair game, but these are some comments from my facebook:

THESE AREN'T MY COMMENTS BUT OTHERS!!!!

THAT IS SO UNBELIEVABLE. THIS IS A NEW 1970 CATASTROPHE. SPECULATION, SPECULATION AND MORE SPECULATION. SHAME ON THEM.

Absolutely unbelievable. When there are so many other sites in the city center that are begging for development (such as the wasteland that has replaced the BBC), the clowns on the council are happy to have another speculative bland box to replace a building which has character. Isn't there a speculative office scheme opposite the ASDA in Moss Side which is still empty after 10+ years?

I can't believe Century House is going to be knock down, this is a horrific idea. a new petition please! (me don't worry I'm overstretched already so I won't)!

I believe MCC have a vendetta against local heritage and pro community organisations/projects. It's called dictatorship.

The amount of mystery Arsons on historical buildings primed for demolition is well overdue an investigation. This would have been a job for world in action, but panorama or a brave journalist will do.

The laws at local level need to be debated and changed as a matter of urgency in the house if commons. Councillors are running the city like a property business for chums, when there is plenty of evidence to suggest maintaining heritage enhances the local economy and community.

What???!!! They are going to demolish century house?? I am disgusted! What can be done about this??

 

[Twizzer88]

We'd probably all pic that if it was there!

 

[Nathan Dawz]

I like Century House and it will be a shame to see it go, but I don't think it's special enough to merit any great outcry if it goes.

If there's one thing we do know for sure, it's that after all of these changes have taken place, St. Peter's Square will look a hell of a lot different than it used to. And given that for years, the Square has been a complete eyesore, this can only be a good thing. So I vote yes for 2SPS!

 

[Maxants]

^^ good post

I still think you should add in compromise!

This is what a city, developers, the Council and the public should be able to do.



It's a small building, just out of English Heritage's remit.

But why would changing plans so people in a city do not have to feel so disenfranchised be such a big deal?

e.g. make it 18 or more floors for example instead of 12 and keep Century House to respect the past and respect the future.

Three ugly buildings in the middle NO-ONE would be fussing about could clearly go!

There is a lot to feel disenfranchised about. Surely that's why the last local elections had the lowest turn out ever when Lucy Powell was elected.

To revise plans and to respect people would be useful.

You know, I completely agree. With century house and the destruction of the twisted wheel and its nearby buildings, I would like to see compromise. I posted a while back about the 'lighthouse' (an old Mackintosh building with a super modern art centre literally built into and on the old dilapidated lighthouse) in Glasgow and how I reckon that amalgamation of old and new should be much more common, but its so rare. The thing about the light house was that it was grade II listed Mackintosh. Century House would require some serious altruism and vision on the developers part if it was to be saved given that its value is especially subjective. Thats why I think this poll should have just 2 options, as in all likelihood - only one of these buildings will be there in 5 years time, and I guess the poll is to see which you would choose...

 

[moveupandon]

^^ good post




You know, I completely agree. With century house and the destruction of the twisted wheel and its nearby buildings, I would like to see compromise. I posted a while back about the 'lighthouse' (an old Mackintosh building with a super modern art centre literally built into and on the old dilapidated lighthouse) in Glasgow and how I reckon that amalgamation of old and new should be much more common, but its so rare. The thing about the light house was that it was grade II listed Mackintosh. Century House would require some serious altruism and vision on the developers part if it was to be saved given that its value is especially subjective. Thats why I think this poll should have just 2 options, as in all likelihood - only one of these buildings will be there in 5 years time, and I guess the poll is to see which you would choose...

Compromise.

That word. So possible but so hated.

There are always other ways I agree. Respecting people and giving them a voice is vital. If we've learnt nothing with our current planning system (see article about consequences of not involving the public when trying to prove public interest http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ggocgvpnpgqsi2b). I think from a common sense point of view it is an inadequate legal system, hence I'm excited to meet lobbyist Jess Steele next week in all my naivety for her fierce and determined fight to change planning legislation.

You know it's really funny. I've already had a certain Councillor (I won't say who) go mad at me. "Keep your nose out", "how dare you criticise the Council" etc. for a benign retweet of someone else's fair enough criticism. I found it mildly intimidating. I undid it. I checked it out with a Barrister friend and I'd done nothing wrong, but wow, you'd of thought... I unlike political careerists wear my heart on my sleeve.

There's such a defensiveness I find very bizarre.

Now let me make a prediction; if anything ever happens with the Trust I'm working on, I bet you those same people will be on it like wildfire claiming glory, yet currently ignore benevolent emails and don't reply.

But with Century House, yes you are right. It may not be the most urgent case in this city by far. But there is a respect issue. The poll is right, yes or no will be the only answers, and I think we all know, yes, it will be demolished. Legends was a 4000 people petition. There was no compromise, no keeping some of the facades. The Olympus Hotel has to be the ugliest monstrosity being built in current Manchester developments. What a mess. And all because, yet again, that one word can never happen.

WHY?

Saying NO is important, as it says, yes, you have to consider us, you have to consult the citizens, there has to be others ways other than devisive controversy and there has to be a way to engage with all sectors of the community in responsible architecture and planning.

 

[TheBowkerValeKid]

You know it's really funny. I've already had a certain Councillor (I won't say who) go mad at me. "Keep your nose out", "how dare you criticise the Council" etc. for a benign retweet of someone else's fair enough criticism.

Oh go on, tell us.

 

[086756]

Oh go on, tell us.

Im going to guess it's PK. He's an idiot. His ideas for Manchester and Piccadilly, and just some of the things he says are ludicrous and down right embarassing for a Councillor.

Andrew

 

[Slow Burn]

I thought you could see who's voted on these polls?? Too bad...


Come on MoveUp... please tell us who the Councillor was!! It's in the interests of the greater good!

 

[Nathan Dawz]

I very much doubt any councillor actually said "Keep your nose out" or "how dare you criticise the Council".

 

[moveupandon]

Im going to guess it's PK. He's an idiot. His ideas for Manchester and Piccadilly, and just some of the things he says are ludicrous and down right embarassing for a Councillor.

Andrew

Actually PK has never responded once to any of my emails or phone calls, left messages with his secretary, despite being in the same MEN article as him suddenly being very 'hopeful' for LRFS (the previous one he was slating them)! Having never spoken to the City Centre Spokesman or anyone in the Trust is quite surprising and quite depressing. Not one reply! I gave up with him!

Is this due to the pressure we may have to exert on the Council to do another CPO and as they had their fingers burnt? I imagine they hate the CPO's view expert on why they failed the previous CPO by not engaging with the community. Also LRFS planning permission expires in September, so will it be renewed? In the Trust we're guessing it may well be!

No an outer ward Cllr! I won't say who as he'll probably sue me and I seem to have upset him too! My Barrister friend said he clearly doesn't understand the law as a RT of someone else's opinion is not defamation and a Council can be criticised and is not a libel case of prosecution as I was told.

My names already turning to mud with the Council! I'm probably making enemies. Also having Loz Kaye (inspiring, questioning, defiant) in the LRFS committee is also not proving to be popular! Politics can be so defensive! But unless the apple cart is upset nothing will change.

Thanks goodness I'm 1/12 of the LRFS Trust Committee! Maybe it is time for me to do an online hiatus. I'll have to do a social media disclaimer, "I do not exist"!

Talking about that, I should never post on ManCon again. Today, I am facing the joy of LNGCats going off on me (100% sure it is him), his usual "you sixth former", (he calls VBD this too right?)! You "embarrassment" etc. It can only be him! "Your targets are completely misdirected, be it your vendetta against the owner of London Road Fire Station or the proposed redevelopment of Century House and adjacent buildings".

Anyway, what get's me is I never said I know everything and asked the Jorunalist to make an article that is simple to understand about planning! Yet there he goes again, saying I'm the most stupid thing ever fit only for "knitting". I'm trying to do something & I think whoever he is, he hates that. Today I've got the support of a pub to run a street event for LRFS, have meet with another member who's in the MEN Friday for the Trust, and we're talking to artists, other venues and bands.

He clearly doesn't like anyone questioning the system or trying to help a cause! Why he even supports Alex Langsam.

Clearly he only like to be depressed and sneery. As for possible prime suspects of threatening phone calls I've had re: LRFS...! Like please calm down! I just have an opinion and debate and learn! I never said I'm the 'authority' like he thinks he is.

So how many times has he been banned/ suspended from here?

But I more importantly like this poll idea. There should be more of them. At least it engages people. How complex can polls get on here?

 

[moveupandon]

I very much doubt any councillor actually said "Keep your nose out" or "how dare you criticise the Council".

he said a) I'd defamed the council in the Retweet (from someone else)
b) I could be sued for this
c) not to associate with other campaigns/ campaigners
d) was I legitimate?
e) I should not criticise the council
f) I should not have certain associations

Of-course I untweeted it! But the thought of being sued and loosing my few possessions is a little mean!

"keep your nose out" is my abbreviation (born in Essex, too much Eastenders)!

I don't really care though. Problem is if people tell me not to do something I don't respond very well. I'm a stubborn shit and too spontaneous. But I asked friends / barrister/ journalist contacts if this was true about the RT and criticism. All agree no, not true, not defamation. Some said I should have told him to F off.

Hey, at this rate, I'll have to quit the LRFS Trust I started and let them get on with it! How many people can I upset! I just don't play this poker face BS and unlike a lot of these clowns that take themselves oh so seriously, I'm able to say, yeah I do dumb things, get things wrong, sometimes misunderstand - Sometimes it would be nice if people in higher places did the same.

This is why I did not go in the LRFS story coming up in the MEN Friday and refused to be in photo today! LNGCats might be right about something, maybe it is time for me to block myself from social media just to keep out of trouble.

"Loose lips sink ships"!

 

[Slow Burn]

Hey, at this rate, I'll have to quit the LRFS Trust I started and let them get on with it! How many people can I upset! This is why I did not go in the LRFS story coming up in the MEN Friday and refused to be in photo!

I hope you're not serious about that mate. Your way may not be the way of your average diplomatic, politically motivated local Councillor but that's a good thing. Stay true to yourself and you'll keep the ball rolling.

 

[moveupandon]

I hope you're not serious about that mate. Your way may not be the way of your average diplomatic, politically motivated local Councillor but that's a good thing. Stay true to yourself and you'll keep the ball rolling.

That's kind. No, I won't be bullied! I'm a stubborn OX! A goddam fool too. I'm not greedy, don't earn a lot, don't need a lot, but I love this city (for saving me) and want it to get the justice it deserves and it's people to be heard.

I do however, expect a lot of hostility! I will definitely be stepping back from the main focus, because I can often be contentious and am often told I need reigning in because I'm a gobshite.

I'm in the events sub committee, and organisation of things but, I will not have anything to do with the architecture competition that accomplished people will run. I guess a lot of people might be glad to hear that! The panel needs to be A* and on architecture I'm a D-!

We want a good campaign and I don't want my opinions to be taken as the whole Trusts at all! But also, likewise this whole things is teaching me a lot about EGOS... my goodness! And as for wanting to be like some of the careerist politicians and that type. Hell no.

 

[timo]

Moveupandon: I don't understand your points. Can you do more bold, italics, capitals and underlining to help the penny drop?

 

[moveupandon]

Right my flatmates and friends have told me, keep off of these online debates! I agree, I am wasting too much time on here... a) because it's fascinating, b) because it is so addictive!

I really enjoy this forum, I really appreciate what a lot of you have taught me, the debates I've had with some of you. I think some of you are so learned and inspired.

I'm going to chill out for a while online. I also (with a few exceptions) have learnt a lot, been wrong and kindly appreciated people telling me I'm off point.

But I've got lot's to do, want to work hard with the LRFS Trust and makes things happen & I'll get the Trust to update occasionally on the LRFS Thread.

I do not want to make a rod for my own back or damage the image of the Friends of LRFS Trust I helped to start, because it's such an important cause for the city, and people who really care, want to restore their faith and I do not want to do them a disservice with my loose tongue.

Best wishes all and all you wonderful architects, creatives, designers, planners and people who want to make a difference, keep on keeping on!

I hope your ventures are great, wish you happiness and contentedness and I hope we all make a Manchester we are proud of. I hope this recession picks up for us all and especially the talented people who do not get enough time to shine amongst you.

So shutting down my account so over and out! Hiatus and more time to do!

Why my name has been moveupandon online. I love this Soul II Soul Track from 1989. My song. Jazzie B, a stoic cool cat, who works for his community still, is chill and keeps it real.

Best wishes all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iQl46-zIcM

 

[Griff]

Ideally, I'd have liked to have seen Elisabeth House, the Odeon and the whole block of which Century House is a part demolished and a proper world-class public space developed.

Failing that, what will ultimately transpire isn't too bad. I've never really liked Century House, if truth be told. I've always thought it a thoroughly unremarkable example of its type.