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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Articles like this don't help:

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/birmingham-cycle-highway-traffic-motorists-complaints/



"Motorists are complaining that a new 2.5 mile cycle highway is causing “traffic chaos” on the roads after a cash-strapped council spent nearly £10m on it. Drivers in Birmingham said the new cycle lane, which has been placed along a major commuter route, is as wide as a bus lane and has made journey times much longer."

I think it's only to be expected that councils are cautious, especially with policitics the way it is at the moment. Just look at the width of the entire road plus pavement, and how little space is given over to cars.
 

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Articles like this don't help:

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/birmingham-cycle-highway-traffic-motorists-complaints/



"Motorists are complaining that a new 2.5 mile cycle highway is causing “traffic chaos” on the roads after a cash-strapped council spent nearly £10m on it. Drivers in Birmingham said the new cycle lane, which has been placed along a major commuter route, is as wide as a bus lane and has made journey times much longer."

I think it's only to be expected that councils are cautious, especially with policitics the way it is at the moment. Just look at the width of the entire road plus pavement, and how little space is given over to cars.
Looks like the same number of car lanes it was before?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What you smell is increasing resentment. See articles like these:

http://driverapplondon.co.uk/congestion-in-london-a-deep-insight/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46359391

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...king-network-transport-for-greater-Manchester

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/7...ield-Green-Lanes-cycle-path-tfl-Boris-Johnson

I know you guys want more cycling infrastructure. I'm sure a lot of people would love it if we had segregated cycleways everywhere. I certainly would. But you have to understand that a lot of people are unhappy at all the spending on cycling infrastructure when the roads are full of potholes and the government is pleading poverty about other things. Particularly if it results in inconvenience during construction thence congestion thereafter. Particularly if some council guy then dismisses complaints with "we're trying to encourage more people to cycle".

Be happy with what you're getting, and don't be too disappointed if things slow down a bit. Especially right now.
 

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What you smell is increasing resentment. See articles like these:

http://driverapplondon.co.uk/congestion-in-london-a-deep-insight/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46359391

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...king-network-transport-for-greater-Manchester

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/7...ield-Green-Lanes-cycle-path-tfl-Boris-Johnson

I know you guys want more cycling infrastructure. I'm sure a lot of people would love it if we had segregated cycleways everywhere. I certainly would. But you have to understand that a lot of people are unhappy at all the spending on cycling infrastructure when the roads are full of potholes and the government is pleading poverty about other things. Particularly if it results in inconvenience during construction thence congestion thereafter. Particularly if some council guy then dismisses complaints with "we're trying to encourage more people to cycle".

Be happy with what you're getting, and don't be too disappointed if things slow down a bit. Especially right now.
That attitude is ridiculous. Capitulate to the driving lobby because a few stick-in-the-mud tabloids pretend to care about traffic in Birmingham for one day a year?

The idea that cyclists are having more money spent on them than motorists is insane. How much has the M60 work cost? The M62 work? The Regent Road work? The Great Ancoats Street work? And it's all under construction. We have 160 million reserved for cycle infrastructure in Greater Manchester, and apart from a mile of tarmac on a towpath on a stretch of canal in Astley, not a penny of that money has yet been spent. Manchester City Council is digging its heels in and dithering over doing anything over the Chorlton Cycleway. We aren't in the process of getting anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That attitude is ridiculous. Capitulate to the driving lobby because a few stick-in-the-mud tabloids pretend to care about traffic in Birmingham for one day a year?
It isn't capitulation, it's consultation. With the public, not some driving lobby.

The idea that cyclists are having more money spent on them than motorists is insane. How much has the M60 work cost? The M62 work?
The point about that, is that the car-driving public doesn't want smart motorways that slow them down to 40mph for no good reason. They want motorways widened properly, with hard shoulders. The perception is that much current road spending only makes things worse for drivers.

The Regent Road work?
Motorists are cynical. They read the summary and what they see is provide crossings for pedestrians and cyclists at all junctions along with reduce the speed limit from 40mph to 30mph and new turns, central reserves, cycle ways and footpaths on Middlewood Street in both directions. They conclude that this spending isn't for their benefit.

The Great Ancoats Street work?
What's the first thing the motorist sees on the summary? "Additional fit-for-purpose crossings will be installed along the route, making travelling by foot or bicycle from the city centre to the surrounding neighbourhoods easier and safer". This isn't for the motorist.

And it's all under construction. We have 160 million reserved for cycle infrastructure in Greater Manchester, and apart from a mile of tarmac on a towpath on a stretch of canal in Astley, not a penny of that money has yet been spent. Manchester City Council is digging its heels in and dithering over doing anything over the Chorlton Cycleway. We aren't in the process of getting anything.
You're getting plenty. Remember that politicians can't risk pissing off the general public by railroading through cycling schemes. Be patient. Be understanding. Be worthy.
 

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You're getting plenty. Remember that politicians can't risk pissing off the general public by railroading through cycling schemes. Be patient. Be understanding. Be worthy.
Be patient for what? If these small schemes in terms of mileage are too much now then what? Be understanding of what? These articles are cack and there is a bad car lobby all over the world always trying to get rid of such schemes. Be worthy? WTF I mean WT actual F?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Be patient for what? If these small schemes in terms of mileage are too much now then what? Be understanding of what? These articles are cack and there is a bad car lobby all over the world always trying to get rid of such schemes. Be worthy? WTF I mean WT actual F?
You're getting a whole pile of money spent on you. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, and don't piss people off.

Alternatively, you could play the outraged snowflake anarchists and stage a demo and stop all the traffic. Ride through the red lights while you're at it, and don't stop at pedestrian crossings when pedestrians are crossing. Show them who's boss. Then the silent majority watching TV or reading the MEN will say WT actual F, and every new cycling scheme will attract a whole new barrelful of objections.
 

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Articles like this don't help:

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/birmingham-cycle-highway-traffic-motorists-complaints/

"Motorists are complaining that a new 2.5 mile cycle highway is causing “traffic chaos” on the roads after a cash-strapped council spent nearly £10m on it. Drivers in Birmingham said the new cycle lane, which has been placed along a major commuter route, is as wide as a bus lane and has made journey times much longer."

I think it's only to be expected that councils are cautious, especially with policitics the way it is at the moment. Just look at the width of the entire road plus pavement, and how little space is given over to cars.
That is incredibly poor reporting from a supposedly reasonable news source. There is no attempt to establish whether car journey times have actually increased as a result of the construction of the cycleway at all, and no attempt to find out whether the cycleway has even affected the road layout. In fact LM93's comparison pictures show that in this particular location, cars had one lane each way over the bridge before the bike lane was built, and they have the same now.

It's striking too that the photographs were taken in the rain, at a location where the road narrows from two lanes each way to one, presumably to get the best combination of queueing traffic and quiet cycleway.

Let's get to the point: anyone who drives and gets het up after reading this is a dope. A dope who's been taking in by some of the oldest journalistic tricks in the book.
 

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Yeah yeah. And all those people sitting in that traffic jam on that big wide roadway next to those empty cycleways, they're all dopes too.
Cycleways look empty because they're efficient. You can get 40+ bikes through a green light in just one sequence, compared to about 4 cars maximum

I don't get why senile snowflakes get so triggered by cyclists!
 

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Yeah yeah. And all those people sitting in that traffic jam on that big wide roadway next to those empty cycleways, they're all dopes too.
Don't feel down. inews were trying to provoke a bit of outrage; that's what news providers do half the time nowadays. Don't blame yourself because you bit. We've all been there, and clicked when we should have ignored, or been suckered by a carefully chosen photograph.

The important thing is to make sure you're on the side of the angels next time :) . Catching up on what Chris Boardman has to say is a good place to start: https://road.cc/content/news/260371-chris-boardman-calls-end-drivers-v-cyclists-rhetoric-british-cycling-reveals-two
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Don't feel down. inews were trying to provoke a bit of outrage; that's what news providers do half the time nowadays. Don't blame yourself because you bit...
I don't blame myself for pointing out motorists stuck in a one-lane traffic jam on a big wide road whilst their council blows £10m on an empty cycleway. Or for pointing out stories like this:

"In 2016 TfL removed one of the two eastbound traffic lanes on the Embankment to make way for a cycle superhighway. At a stroke, this reduced one of London’s busiest A-roads to the capacity of a village high street. Everyone knows this was a mistake but TfL and the Mayor won’t say so for fear of upsetting the powerful cycling lobby".

We've all been there, and clicked when we should have ignored, or been suckered by a carefully chosen photograph.
The important thing is to make sure you're on the side of the angels next time :) . Catching up on what Chris Boardman has to say is a good place to start: https://road.cc/content/news/260371-chris-boardman-calls-end-drivers-v-cyclists-rhetoric-british-cycling-reveals-two
That's an interesting piece. This is the crucial point:

Media coverage that promotes a “turf war” between people in cars and those on bikes is “divisive, unhelpful and only serves to fuel the problem we have on our roads,” says Chris Boardman.

It isn't media coverage that's the issue. It's cyclists getting preferential treatment that causes congestion for other road users. Or problems for shopkeepers and pedestrians. Of course, Chris Boardman would like to silence any newspaper who points this out. It isn't going to happen.
 

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^^ I don’t necessarily disagree that some cycling infrastructure has been over engineered at the expense of other road users in a small number of cases. As a cyclist myself I often think - why have they spent all that money on a rarely used short piece of cycle path.

But the important point is that 99% of the road network, including most major routes, ignores or is derisory in its provision for cyclists. Look at the A56 through Gorse Hill or the Bridgewater Way on the main route into Manchester from the SW.

The shortcomings of some planning departments providing suitable cycling infrastructure isn’t a reason to argue against such infrastructure where it is planned sensibly in consultation with cyclists, as Boardman is doing.
 

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That is incredibly poor reporting from a supposedly reasonable news source. There is no attempt to establish whether car journey times have actually increased as a result of the construction of the cycleway at all, and no attempt to find out whether the cycleway has even affected the road layout. In fact LM93's comparison pictures show that in this particular location, cars had one lane each way over the bridge before the bike lane was built, and they have the same now.

It's striking too that the photographs were taken in the rain, at a location where the road narrows from two lanes each way to one, presumably to get the best combination of queueing traffic and quiet cycleway.

Let's get to the point: anyone who drives and gets het up after reading this is a dope. A dope who's been taking in by some of the oldest journalistic tricks in the book.
In any case, the logical answer for a driver stuck in a traffic jam is, if plausible, to get themselves a bike and out of the car.
 

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I don't blame myself for pointing out motorists stuck in a one-lane traffic jam on a big wide road whilst their council blows £10m on an empty cycleway. Or for pointing out stories like this:

"In 2016 TfL removed one of the two eastbound traffic lanes on the Embankment to make way for a cycle superhighway. At a stroke, this reduced one of London’s busiest A-roads to the capacity of a village high street. Everyone knows this was a mistake but TfL and the Mayor won’t say so for fear of upsetting the powerful cycling lobby".

That's an interesting piece. This is the crucial point:

Media coverage that promotes a “turf war” between people in cars and those on bikes is “divisive, unhelpful and only serves to fuel the problem we have on our roads,” says Chris Boardman.

It isn't media coverage that's the issue. It's cyclists getting preferential treatment that causes congestion for other road users. Or problems for shopkeepers and pedestrians. Of course, Chris Boardman would like to silence any newspaper who points this out. It isn't going to happen.
Powerful cycling lobby? LOL
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
^^ I don’t necessarily disagree that some cycling infrastructure has been over engineered at the expense of other road users in a small number of cases. As a cyclist myself I often think - why have they spent all that money on a rarely used short piece of cycle path.

But the important point is that 99% of the road network, including most major routes, ignores or is derisory in its provision for cyclists. Look at the A56 through Gorse Hill or the Bridgewater Way on the main route into Manchester from the SW.

The shortcomings of some planning departments providing suitable cycling infrastructure isn’t a reason to argue against such infrastructure where it is planned sensibly in consultation with cyclists, as Boardman is doing.
Check back through the thread. See page 76 where I said this:

I know you guys want more cycling infrastructure. I'm sure a lot of people would love it if we had segregated cycleways everywhere. I certainly would. But you have to understand that a lot of people are unhappy at all the spending on cycling infrastructure when the roads are full of potholes and the government is pleading poverty about other things. Particularly if it results in inconvenience during construction thence congestion thereafter. Particularly if some council guy then dismisses complaints with "we're trying to encourage more people to cycle". Be happy with what you're getting, and don't be too disappointed if things slow down a bit. Especially right now.

It's not a question of arguing against cycling infrastructure, it's urging cyclists not to bite the hand that feeds them by giving MCC grief for consulting the public.
 
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