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Which one would you prefer?

  • EXPANDING the existing diesel train service

    Votes: 4 11.8%
  • CONVERTING to a "light metro" system

    Votes: 9 26.5%
  • EXPANSION using a tram system

    Votes: 3 8.8%
  • NOT expanding rail services but increasing bus services

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • REPLACING rail services completely with buses

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • USING a "European-style" hybrid tram-train system that allows mixed use

    Votes: 17 50.0%
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
$2b to overhaul public transport in Adelaide

bit old, but i think its worth posting on here

$2bn to overhaul public transport
MICHAEL OWEN, KIM WHEATLEY
March 03, 2007 01:15am

A SECRET Government report reveals a complete overhaul of the city's public transport system would cost up to $2 billion.

The report recommends six options to "transform" Adelaide's public transport system during the next decade, including expanding the use of trams, converting to a light rail network or completely replacing existing rail services with buses.
The Transport Department's strategic review - prepared as a confidential document in December, 2004, but never released publicly - offers a range of strategies "to meet the State Strategic Plan target of doubling the use of public transport to 10 per cent of weekday travel by 2018".

The 41-page report, a copy of which was obtained by The Advertiser, outlines the Government's options as:

EXPANDING the existing diesel train service at a cost of $1.76 billion.

CONVERTING to a "light metro" system for $1.73 billion.

EXPANSION using a tram system at a cost of $1.97 billion.

NOT expanding rail services but increasing bus services at an estimated cost of $1.89 billion.

REPLACING rail services completely with buses at a cost of $2.23 billion.

USING a "European-style" hybrid tram-train system that allows mixed use, which could cost between $1.73 billion and $1.97 billion, depending on the mix.

The report rejects expanding Adelaide's existing diesel rail service because it "is not seen as being able to provide the market edge to attract the required number of passengers away from cars, and achieve the targets in the most cost-effective, safe and robust way".

In an interview with The Advertiser last month, Transport Minister Patrick Conlon spoke of his vision for new urban projects that incorporated light rail, as has happened in Western Australia.

He also told The Advertiser of his personal vision to completely overhaul the metropolitan public transport system.

Mr Conlon said yesterday the report was one of a variety of options papers developed by the department.

"It's absolutely natural that a transport department works up options for the future on a range of things," he said. "It's not a question of sitting on them. It's what you do that builds your store of knowledge about what you're going to do in the future."

Opposition transport spokesman Martin Hamilton-Smith said he was disappointed the paper had been kept secret.

"I'm disappointed there hasn't been more of a public process. These are fairly significant propositions. There should be some public consultations," he said.

"Instead, it seems like they're planning behind closed doors and I think that's regrettable."

He also said one of the most expensive options was to develop trams and "in light of that it's curious that they've gone ahead with the tram extension".

The report also refers to the WA model, noting "an initial assessment (for potential growth) is based on the expansion of the rail system following a similar decision by the WA Government to pursue a mass transit public transport policy to compete with car travel".

In discussing the light rail option, the report also refers to German-made Bombardier vehicles used in Perth, serving places including Fremantle and the northern suburbs. SA has already bought 11 Bombardier trams.

The report recommends pursuing the light rail option and urges it be "considered in more detail".

"Initial financial estimates indicate that the costs of conversion to an electrified system and conversion of the vehicles would be recovered by savings in energy, maintenance, future vehicle purchase cost and additional fare revenue," the report states.

The report also suggests that adopting such proposals "opens up other strategic opportunities", such as further tram extensions.

"If the light metro option is selected for the North West Corridor, then a short on-street tram system linking Semaphore, Glanville, the Port redevelopment, Port historic precinct and eventually to Commercial Rd bridge," it says.
 

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I have no idea.

Without details on just what the $1.something billion is actually buying it's impossible to compare what would provide the most benefit.

Electrifying the suburban rail network would be a good start though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I like this one, i reacon it would be pretty cool

USING a "European-style" hybrid tram-train system that allows mixed use, which could cost between $1.73 billion and $1.97 billion, depending on the mix.
 

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A "bit old" Crawf? LOL The article is only from 1 1/2 weeks ago. :lol:

$2 billion is a fair whack whereas Oz's GDP forecast for 2006-7 is $1 trillion, so I work that out to be 2% of the GDP forecast. Deservedly so for Adelaide.

Yeah, the hybrid train-tram system works very well for Melbourne & to a much lesser degree, Sydney with its train/light-rail line (only @ present for the CBD & inner western suburbs), so why not for Adelaide?!?

Adelaide is already a little on the way to integration with its tram-line extension on the Glenelg line albeit for only 3 extra stops, yet very importantly one @ Adelaide Station. Also with its 4 main rail lines, although they could do with a lot of further integration IMO.

Go the hybrid!
 

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Yeah, the hybrid train-tram system works very well for Melbourne & to a much lesser degree, Sydney with its train/light-rail line (only @ present for the CBD & inner western suburbs), so why not for Adelaide?!?
This is the tram-train they're talking about - I don't think they have that in Melbourne or Sydney.

It would be weird having trams going all the way out to Gawler. Are they slower than regular trains? You can't fit as many people on a tram, unless they're all standing.
 

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This is the tram-train they're talking about - I don't think they have that in Melbourne or Sydney.
Wait a minute. Are we talking about an integrated tram & train system or a specific mode of transportation? I was taking "hybrid" as an integrated system using both trams and trains, but is the meaning some kind of light rail that uses both tracks laid on roads and rail lines? If the latter, Melbourne has the Combino trams on Route No. 96 that use the former rail tracks from the city, through Middle Park and then onto St Kilda after veering off street lines in the tram infrastructure.

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Hybrid is a far better option for rapid transit options.
 

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It sounded like if they adopted hybridisation that they'd scrap the old diesels and run the trams out on the lines. That would be like running trams instead of trains through Southern Cross and Flinders Street, if you will.
 

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It's interesting that Adelaide is looking to scrap their heavy rail passanger network. As oppose to Perth which was in the same boat nearly two decades ago and choose to invest into the network instead. Should be interesting to see how it turns out in the medium and long term.
 

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What track guage is Adelaide's current tram line built? I presume it's 1435mm standard guage?
 

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Umm, check your maths.

A "bit old" Crawf? LOL The article is only from 1 1/2 weeks ago. :lol:

$2 billion is a fair whack whereas Oz's GDP forecast for 2006-7 is $1 trillion, so I work that out to be 2% of the GDP forecast. Deservedly so for Adelaide.

Yeah, the hybrid train-tram system works very well for Melbourne & to a much lesser degree, Sydney with its train/light-rail line (only @ present for the CBD & inner western suburbs), so why not for Adelaide?!?

Adelaide is already a little on the way to integration with its tram-line extension on the Glenelg line albeit for only 3 extra stops, yet very importantly one @ Adelaide Station. Also with its 4 main rail lines, although they could do with a lot of further integration IMO.

Go the hybrid!
 

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2 billion out of 1 trillion should be about 0.2%

Computer calculator is crap anyway. Google can solve all your mathematical equations.
 

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Tyson, the SA network is mostly 1600mm broad gauge.

Muse, the tram line extension will have four stops, not three.

Buses? Don't make me laugh. Where's the option for converting the existing heavy rail to sparks? Improve the existing tracks, increase service frequencies, improve station facilities... and so on and so forth.
 

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Atd, the tram line is 1600mm as well?? I don't mean the trains because I already know that they are mostly 1600mm. I thought maybe they had the same situation as Melbourne with 1600mm train lines and 1435mm tram lines.

Agree, get some electric traction on Adelaides rail network first.
 

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Muse, the tram line extension will have four stops, not three.
Oh my gosh. It really isn't my day. So there are 4 according to railpage.org.au; Pirie St, Rundle Mall, Adelaide Station & City West.

No wonder I don't post in the Transportation Section very much. Who would like to be my gunzel mentor?

EDIT:

Who would like to be my gunzel mentor?
I can see you all rushing to take up the challenge. I need a stick to beat all of you off.

Anyway, outta here to do exact research :runaway:

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Atd, the tram line is 1600mm as well?? I don't mean the trains because I already know that they are mostly 1600mm. I thought maybe they had the same situation as Melbourne with 1600mm train lines and 1435mm tram lines.

Agree, get some electric traction on Adelaides rail network first.
No, the tram line operates on standard gauge, 1435mm.

I don't even think you can call ripping up the entire suburban rail network and replacing with buses an upgrade. That is just one very expensive downgrade. Why waste that money converting to buses when supposedly less can be spent on making use of the resources that already exist?

The article really confuses trams and trains when it comes to talking about Perth's rail system (this is what is actually being referred to). The journalist who wrote that article obviously doesn't have any idea.
 
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