[Ayatulahi]

Written by Global Post
Oct 22, 2010 at 02:47 PM

HARGEISA, Somaliland — There is a part of Somalia where foreigners can walk the streets in safety, where the only guns are held by uniformed members of the state security services, where elections are held regularly and democratically, and where the people can dare to hope for a future of continuing peace and desperately-needed prosperity.

Somaliland, northwest of Somalia, declared independence in 1991 but has not been recognised by any other country in the world. Yet in the restive Horn of Africa, it is a rare success story that is gradually being accepted by the United States and others.

In September, the top U.S. diplomat for Africa announced a new “two track policy” toward Somalia, one that increases the focus on Somaliland and another semi-autonomous northern region called Puntland.

“Both of these parts of Somalia have been zones of relative political and civil stability and we think they in fact will be a bulwark of extremism and radicalism that might emerge from the south,” said Johnnie Carson, assistant secretary of state for Africa, in New York last month.

Carson stressed that the new diplomatic push did not amount to legal recognition and that Washington would continue to support the U.N.-backed Transitional Federal Government in Mogadishu.


For the capital of a country that does not exist, Hargeisa is a cacophonous place. Car engines and horns compete to drown out the call of the muezzin, ambling pedestrians compete with battered vehicles on the dusty streets that are lined with thickets of cactus and drifts of thorny acacia branches.

Little wooden stalls sell imported Chinese and Saudi plastic goods. Moneychangers squat behind dirty ramparts of Somaliland shillings. Bales of narcotic khat trucked or flown in from the Ethiopian highlands are sold at little booths, their male customers stumble away in a stoned daze clutching bunches of green stems.

Telephone poles are wreathed in tangled wires, like a citywide game of cat’s cradle gone wrong. The anarchic wiring is testament to the recent unregulated growth in telephone services.

Clad in skeletons of wooden scaffolding, half-constructed buildings lean woozily as construction workers scurry up and down ladders. These are new hotels, office blocks, banks, apartments and mosques.

Hargeisa is a boomtown albeit in a chaotic, Wild West kind of way. The lack of formal economic development is a result of Somaliland’s lack of formal existence. Without international recognition Somaliland cannot benefit from World Bank or International Monetary Fund support and has received only piecemeal bilateral support from a handful of donors.

But that is set to change. During a visit to Hargeisa last week the U.N.’s humanitarian coordinator for Somalia, Mark Bowden, said the $100 million that Somaliland now receives from donors each year could double as a result of the increased engagement from foreign countries.

That would be a significant boost for a place where the government’s entire budget is only $50 million a year, mostly earned by the busy port at Berbera. Every day creaky wooden galleons from Yemen and elsewhere in the Arabian peninsula unload pallets of fizzy drinks and crates of washing machines, sacks of grain and cargo loads of 4x4s … things that Somaliland cannot produce itself, which means pretty much everything.

Once empty, the ships fill up with livestock and head back across the Gulf of Aden. The sheep and goats exported to Arab countries are Somaliland’s biggest foreign earner.

In the absence of legal recognition, Somaliland has developed a strange mix of pride and bitterness that was expressed by the Harvard-educated chancellor of the University of Hargeisa.

“We have seen the bottom of hell but we have built from the ground up with little support,” Hussein Bulhan said.

http://mobile.globalpost.com/dispatch/africa/101019/somaliland-us-policy

 

[Djibouti]

woooooowwww some amazing somalian/african progress

one step closer to my GREATER SOMALIA DREAM but I know that we have too many enemies and they want us to fall and achieve nothing but one day , someone is gonna have to make a stand, one day someone is gonna have to say enough

we somalians shall rise up, it is not a matter of if but simply when

SOMALIA is country cursed by their last and only democratic elected president SIAD BARRE,

my mom told me that the legend says he said when he was leaving the presidency

*DHULBAAN KA TAGAYA LAKIINSE DAD KAMA TAGAYO* which means after my understanding
*Im leaving a country that has not enough nationalist and proud citizens to continue my legacy and the ultimate goal of A SOMALI EMPIRE that stretches from the south sea of mogadisho to the shining north sea of djibouti, from the east of berbera to the west ogadeen*

but too bad his dream never realised and our enemies succeded in dividing us and eventually seeing our country collapse by design

as a descendant of somaliland natives and as a proud djiboutian, I recognize the independency of SOMALILAND even though it goes against my profound principles but if it is something good for the north natives , well Im for it

may my brothers and sisters join me in the celebration of a somalian achievement :cheers:

 

[Ras Siyan]

woooooowwww some amazing somalian/african progress

one step closer to my GREATER SOMALIA DREAM but I know that we have too many enemies and they want us to fall and achieve nothing but one day , someone is gonna have to make a stand, one day someone is gonna have to say enough

we somalians shall rise up, it is not a matter of if but simply when

SOMALIA is country cursed by their last and only democratic elected president SIAD BARRE,

my mom told me that the legend says he said when he was leaving the presidency

*DHULBAAN KA TAGAYA LAKIINSE DAD KAMA TAGAYO* which means after my understanding
*Im leaving a country that has not enough nationalist and proud citizens to continue my legacy and the ultimate goal of A SOMALI EMPIRE that stretches from the south sea of mogadisho to the shining north sea of djibouti, from the east of berbera to the west ogadeen* :cheers:

And you use Djibouti as your pseudohno:hno:hno:

Wake up bro "Somali Weyn" is dead. Can't you see even Somalia is breaking up and you want us to be part of some sort of Greater Somaliahno:

Congrats Somaliland, the only democracy in our region! I'm proud they're fellow Somalis, our name has been tarnished for so long

 

[Lailax]

How I have missed this thread, I dunno

Much love to Somaliland <3
May it live long and prosper :cheers:

one step closer to my GREATER SOMALIA DREAM but I know that we have too many enemies and they want us to fall and achieve nothing but one day , someone is gonna have to make a stand, one day someone is gonna have to say enough

The dream of a Greater Somalia is dead people, we need to move on.

 

[Djibouti]

whats wrong with me using Djibouti as my nickname? am I not your fellow countryman ?

GREATER SOMALIA DREAM is not dead for me, I still think we have a shot but lets not start by screaming at each other (ras siyan said we should debate in a maner of mutal respect, yet the guy has a big mouth, dont take it harsh bro!)

I have to be careful with what i have to say here cause I dont want our common enemies to see my plan for the future of us somalis

there should first be separatist somali territories because i dont see any other alternative right now
but my option is after many decade of peaceful and successful independent territories, an economic integrated somalia is needed thus an United Somali Empire

by the way Somaliland is the only democracy in the horn of africa, much less northern regions

 

[Xusein]

Somaliland ha noolato! :cheers:

 

[Lailax]

I have to be careful with what i have to say here cause I dont want our common enemies to see my plan for the future of us somalis

there should first be separatist somali territories because i dont see any other alternative right now
but my option is after many decade of peaceful and successful independent territories, an economic integrated somalia is needed thus an United Somali Empire

Heh, your plan for Somali's eh? Do expand.

I can see in the future after decades of security and peace some sort of East Africa alliance which yes would include Ethiopia naturally but only for economic benefits. No political merging.

 

[Janub]

If the world cared about Somalia, they would allow it to divide peacefully the same way the Balkan states were allowed. There's no reason to not recognize a place like Somaliland which attracts more immigrants than Eritrea, a recently recognized state. Its true that Somaliland's independence lies in Mogadishu although to their disadvantage they do well to avoid it, so I can see how it won't turn out good for them, but the world should take action to recognize determined Somali states if Mogadishu is not an option for them.

 

[Lailax]

Why does Somaliland's independence lie with Mogadishu?

It wasn't Somalia which gave Somaliland it's Independence previously, it was the British

 

[Janub]

Why does Somaliland's independence lie with Mogadishu?

Because that's how things work. Do you remember when hundreds of thousands of Eritreans lined up and gave their votes for the independence referendum in Addis Ababa? And now look towards Sudan, the referendum is being held in Khartoum and southerners are voicing their opinions on independence.

It wasn't Somalia which gave Somaliland it's Independence previously, it was the British

The British gave Somaliland independence because it was a BRITISH COLONY THEN, it was part of the British Empire and its independence was signed off in London, the capital of the British Empire. Somalia didn't even exist yet - Southern Somalia received independence a week after northern Somalia and they united. Today, Somaliland is still permanently part of Somalia, and its independence can only be signed off in Mogadishu, the capital of Somalia. If any country other than Somalia decides to recognize Somaliland before Mogadishu signs off on it, that country faces the scrutiny of Somalia and other nations who may support Somalia in its current geo-political form, like for example the Arab League states and especially Egypt who are totally against dividing Somalia but that's a different story.

Does this make sense now?

 

[Lailax]

Because that's how things work. Do you remember when hundreds of thousands of Eritreans lined up and gave their votes for the independence referendum in Addis Ababa? And now look towards Sudan, the referendum is being held in Khartoum and southerners are voicing their opinions on independence.

The British gave Somaliland independence because it was a BRITISH COLONY THEN, it was part of the British Empire and its independence was signed off in London, the capital of the British Empire. Somalia didn't even exist yet - Southern Somalia received independence a week after northern Somalia and they united. Today, Somaliland is still permanently part of Somalia, and its independence can only be signed off in Mogadishu, the capital of Somalia. If any country other than Somalia decides to recognize Somaliland before Mogadishu signs off on it, that country faces the scrutiny of Somalia and other nations who may support Somalia in its current geo-political form, like for example the Arab League states and especially Egypt who are totally against dividing Somalia but that's a different story.

Does this make sense now?

:lol:

Scrutiny of Somalia eh?

Egypt can do whatever it wants, it's just crazy mad about Somaliland's relation with Ethiopia and they are stupid enough to believe Somalis would somehow work to their own ends when it comes to the Nile.
Somaliland's future lies away from the Arab League so they could kick us out of their country club in retaliation if countries do recognise us but who cares, not like it does any good anyway in East Africa. It's a useless entity and all being tied to Arab countries would do to Somaliland is force its regression. The West, Hong Kong, Israel is what Somaliland should be aspiring to become.

And it should and will not work like that for Somaliland. The South should not get any referendum when it comes to deciding Somaliland's future, that decision will always remain in the hands of the North. Necessity will trigger Somaliland's recognition, not Somalia.

 

[Xusein]

The problem is that the TFG in it's current form doesn't have the legitimacy in Southern Somalia let alone Somaliland to recognize it or not. I don't think it is similar to Ethiopia or Sudan which have strong governments in comparison.

 

[Djibouti]

If the world cared about Somalia, they would allow it to divide peacefully the same way the Balkan states were allowed. There's no reason to not recognize a place like Somaliland which attracts more immigrants than Eritrea, a recently recognized state. the world should take action to recognize determined Somali states if Mogadishu is not an option for them.

I couldnt agree more with this statement, you said it best and in a professional way!

Why does Somaliland's independence lie with Mogadishu?

I agree I don't understand why? why in the world will someone allow himself to be ruled by GOD forsaken mogadisho? I don't understand why the southerners want Somaliland to still be part of their destructed culture.

but I do think the northerners/somalilanders should negociate peacefully with the government in order to get the independency. that is the best way to get yourself out of a burning ship. There shouldnt be more bloodshed, Somaliland has to tell the government that they want to secede. how in the world can this PUNTLAND protectorate state have control over the north? when in fact they're struggling to defeat the existing disorder in MOGADISHO. Somaliland should be independent at any cost, even bribe this already corrupted government.

Egypt are totally against dividing Somalia

its all about the NILE RIVER. egypt want to scare the ethiopians by not recognizing any somali breakaway state. I don't usually side with ethiopians but this is one of the few things they did right, never back down to arab colonial rules. they dont care us about, they dont want us africans to develop as much as them, time for ethiopia to use its water resources. Cant wait for the dams to be built and sell electricity to Djibouti

 

[Lailax]

Somaliland should be independent at any cost, even bribe this already corrupted government.

I agree independence is a must but I wouldn't agree with bribing the corrupt South TFG. They are not seen as legitimate so it would be meaningless.
My preferred method is the South getting a Government which straight away would relinquish ties to Somaliland but I doubt the South ever will let go of Somaliland. So I'd just want the West recognising Somaliland.

I am not bothered about whether Arabs ever get around to recognising Somaliland, they are hardly important or influential on the world stage esp. at the same level as the West.

its all about the NILE RIVER. egypt want to scare the ethiopians by not recognizing any somali breakaway state.

I agree, Egypt must actually think Somali's give two shits about the Nile.
Ethiopia would benefit from recognition of Somali break away states, Puntland and Somaliland. Peace near them is always something good.

 

[Djibouti]

I hate to say it but my country Djibouti is one the countries benefiting from the current somali geo-political form, thats why our president has yet to accept Somaliland because its port berbera already poses a threat to us. we WANT THE ethiopians to depend on us and by that i mean us only. we have opened our borders for western troops so that they can bomb our southern somali brothers anytime they want. Djibouti was never an important strategical location until the collapse of somalia, and I dont think we want an order restored down there, because we will lose credit.

I am not bothered about whether Arabs ever get around to recognising Somaliland, they are hardly important or influential on the world stage esp. at the same level as the West.

the arab league is a joke, I don't know what conflicts they think they're resolving by seating around tables and using OUTDATED PLATFORMS OF SOLUTIONS. bUT DJIBOUTI wont get out of it because it makes our indigenous people feel themselves big (see we're among the elite) and see themselves as proud muslims when in fact we're a SECULAR NATION. ARABS don't care about blacks as much as they do with palestinians, look they dont even want A SOUTHERN SUDAN.

 

[Lailax]

Oh yes I know Djibouti is a barrier to Somaliland's recognition and indirectly peace to the South for the reasons you listed.
It does not wish for competition and our port when recognised would be a hot commodity especially considering it would no longer have the high insurance.

But don't worry, Djibouti will change it's tune when it becomes the victim of anarchy in the South. The only reason Djibouti is like that, along with Egypt, Eritrea etc. is because they are insulated from the blow back of Al Shabab. If that wall was taken down, I have a feeling they'd all be singing a different tune

I was reading an article a while ago about why the Arab league opposed recognition and it mentioned Israel getting a base in Somaliland, I started seriously :lol:
Active imaginations they have.

 

[Xusein]

It honestly isn't up to the Arab League...which never really cared much about Somalis anyway. The whole thing will be solved by Somalis.

I'd rather have a Somaliland and Somalia which are separate but have good relations than a Somalia riddled with regional tensions like in the past.

 

[Lailax]

the arab league is a joke, I don't know what conflicts they think they're resolving by seating around tables and using OUTDATED PLATFORMS OF SOLUTIONS. bUT DJIBOUTI wont get out of it because it makes our indigenous people feel themselves big (see we're among the elite) and see themselves as proud muslims when in fact we're a SECULAR NATION. ARABS don't care about blacks as much as they do with palestinians, look they dont even want A SOUTHERN SUDAN.

Well of course they don't care for Black Muslims, when have they ever liked them?
I doubt they even care about Palestinians that much as well. How rich is Saudi Arabia? Dubai? UAE? Yet how is it with all that money that they spend throwing away on ridiculous projects like gold plated palaces and what not, the Palestinians are still starving? If that isn't disgraceful, I don't know what is.

Not to mention the fact that Arabs like to preach Muslim ummah but that is all it is, all talk. They say it when it suits their agenda and then turn around and forget it when it doesn't.
African Muslims do not need their stamp of approval to be seen as Muslim. Lander's are not deluded, we have Islam and we do not need Arabs approval of our Islamic values. They are the minority in Islamic community today yet they always forget it.

I would prefer to listen to Indonesia or Malaysia than Arabs in a heart beat - they are the real Muslim brothers living in peace with their neighbors.

 

[Djibouti]

i thought arabs liked us until i visited yemen, when me and my mom had to fill out the refugee forms in SAN'A. oh my godness, we were cursed out in front of everybody. yaa himaar ASWAD, etc..!!! that was the worst experiment ive ever had in my entire life. I hope i never experience that kinda sh*t again. i feel bad for those blacks cleaning up the dirty streets of yemen because they won't be allowed to get another job. ignorance in the arab world is quite as the same level as the west if not worst.
i hope my muslim brothers shall stay secular the same way as TYRKIA and not go down the extremist way

 

[Lailax]

Nah, they never liked us. I wouldn't go ME at all if Mecca unfortunately wasn't there, when my Uncle went SA for Hajj, he said it was horrible but I wouldn't take it to heart. All Non Arabs are treated horribly even other Arabs are treated horribly in some Arab societies.

And I agree, we should not follow countries example when it comes to our relationship with our religion and politics. Secularism all the way


Disclaimer for any observers of this exchange: I am not saying all Arabs are anything and when I use the word 'Arab'. I am referencing society or Government and in some cases some Arabs attitudes and views towards Black/Non Arab groups.