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Here is the plan to increase the passengers capacity in CDG:
- Terminal 1, satellites junction: +1,2 million by end of 2020
- Terminal 2B and 2D junction: +1,5 million by end of 2020
- Terminal 4: first tranche for the Olympic games in 2024 for up to 10 million passengers, overall capacity up to 40 million
 

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Paris airports July 2018.

CDG
07/2018 - 7 152 063 +4.2% (first time over 7 million)
2018 - 41 075 251 +3.2%
12-month period - 70 751 444 +4.2%

ORY
07/2018 - 3 243 535 +2.6%
2018 - 19 248 981 +2.8%
12-month period - 32 567 606 +1.9%

Total Paris
07/2018 - 10 395 598 +3.7%
2018 - 60 324 232 +3.1%
12-month period - 103 319 050 +3.4%

https://www.parisaeroport.fr/docs/default-source/groupe-fichiers/finance/relations-investisseurs/trafic/2018/14082018-groupe-adp-july-2018-traffic-figures.pdf?sfvrsn=24e9f3bd_2
 

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I've been told that when it comes to passenger statistics, airports with the highest number of connecting passengers have 'inflated' figures because passengers are counted twice and, therefore, O/D-only numbers are more relevant.

For example, if someone travels from London to Sydney, return, that person will count towards:
1xHeathrow as a departure
1xDubai as an arrival
1xDubai as a departure
1xSydney as an arrival
1xSydney as a departure
1xDubai as an arrival
1xDubai as a departure
1xHeathrow as an arrival

LHR=2, SYD=2, DXB=4

Is this double counting how it works? is there any way to obtain more representative figures of the actual amount of passengers an airport has?
 

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Is this double counting how it works? is there any way to obtain more representative figures of the actual amount of passengers an airport has?
That's how it works indeed. Though transit passengers (same flight number, i.e. QF1 at SIN) are only counted once.

Most airports publish O&D numbers, but afaik there isn't a comprehensive list of those.
 

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In Vaud's example are the figures for Dubai really inflated though? They did have 4 travelers arriving or departing from their airport. That it's the same person doesn't change things all that much from their perspective; especially if they have to change planes.
 

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^^ That's subjective I guess. They had 1 traveler at the airport 2 times is another way to look at it. And it does matter for the airport: only 2 opportunities to sell goods, airport space only occupied twice etc...

I imagine an airport with 50 million O&D passengers looks substantially busier than an airport with 50 million transfer passengers (thus 25 million actual airport visits).
 

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I suppose it depends on whether the passenger gets off the plane.
Eurostat only allows single dipping on transit.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Air_transport_statistics

Passengers carried:
All passengers on a particular flight counted once only and not repeatedly on each individual stage of that flight. This excludes direct transit passengers.
So they are counted once if they stay on the plane. Then !!

Double counting: the national aggregates and total intra-EU-28 aggregates exclude any double counting. It includes all the departures figures reported plus "a part of" arrivals declarations, "a part of" including those arrivals declarations for which the corresponding departures declarations of the partner airport are missing.
I suspect that Dubai and Istanbul do the same. Not sure though. Eurostat method in detail here

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/29567/3217334/Aviation+Reference+Manual+(version+14)/e2d532c6-a54a-465a-95e0-f62b76e7da4c

Oh and Dublin beat Orly in July with 3.3m+ passengers.
 

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^^ Next page of that document.

1.5.4 Transfer or indirect transit passengers
Passengers arriving and departing on a different aircraft within 24 hours, or on the same aircraft bearing different flight numbers. They are counted twice: once upon arrival and once on departure.
 

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On the other hand, at AMS most of the time only 2 runways can be used simultaneously, because of the orientation of the runways.
And AMS has reached its maximum capacity, it cannot really grow anymore. In fact it is a miracle that 70 million passengers can use the airport that is designed for about 50 mio. pax.

Although during my holiday I spent some time at FRA, and now I understand why AMS is such a perfect airport.
How is AMS a perfect airport?
 

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CDG and AMS passed both the 70 million mark for the rolling 12 months for the first time and in June AMS will overtake CDG to become Europa second biggest airport.
Well, I won't hire you as a forecaster.

Here is the traffic for the 12 months ending in July 2018: ;)
- Paris CDG: 70,751,444 (+4.3% compared to Aug 16-July 17)
- Amsterdarm Schiphol: 70,304,015 (+5.6% compared to Aug 16-July 17)

Regarding the actual number of passengers going through the airport, if we add up O&D passengers + half of the transfer passengers (since these are counted twice) we get only 55,858,024 passengers for Amsterdam Schiphol in 2017.

For Paris we have transfer passenger figures only for CDG and Orly combined. In 2017 there were 23,399,194 people who emplaned or deplaned in the Paris airports on transfer from one flight to another.

So half of these people + O&D passengers = 93,460,463 actual passengers for the 3 Paris airports (CDG, Orly, Beauvais) in 2017.

It's just a far, far, far bigger market than Amsterdam (67% larger).
Makes perfect sense with the number of runways it has as well as the added benefit of not having French overregulation and continuous strikes.
Well...
KLM pilots threaten strike over pay, work pressure: Telegraaf

August 13, 2018
Dutchnews.nl

Pilots for Dutch flag carrier KLM are threatening to strike over pay and work pressure, according to a letter from the pilots union VNV to its members, the Telegraaf reported on Monday.

It remains unclear when any industrial action would be taken, but the paper said none is planned before Friday. KLM and the pilots union VNV reached tentative agreement over a new pay-and-conditions contract for the pilots in May.

However the 2,200 pilots employed by KLM are unhappy about the terms. KLM said the negotiations with the pilots are now in ‘a difficult phase’.

‘KLM does not realise how broad the unrest is and that severe measures are needed to alleviate pressure at work,’ the letter said. ‘ If KLM does not agree with our proposal, then we will begin with work stoppages, the VNV said.

[...]

Dutch pilots working for Irish budget airline Ryanair went on strike last Friday.

[...]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/08/klm-pilots-threaten-strike-over-pay-work-pressure-telegraaf/
As for "overregulation", CDG is one of the few airports in Europe that allows night flights. It also has much more capacity to expand than Heathrow, Amsterdam, or Frankfurt, because the planners in the late 1960s thought BIG and have bought enough land and frozen enough developments around the airport to be able to build runways and terminals accommodating more than 150 million passengers.

The French authorities decided 20 years ago that they would not build a 3rd mega airport around Paris and that instead they would bring CDG to the max, and the local communities have been bought by investing lots of money to improve their houses. Aéroports de Paris, the manager of the airport, now expects CDG will reach 120 million passengers around 2045-2050.

 

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You should take into account that a 'strike' in Dutch aviation means stopping work for a few minutes to a few hours, while in France it mostly means a stopping work for days on end. Thus the point is still very much valid.

As for "overregulation", CDG is one of the few airports in Europe that allows night flights. It also has much more capacity to expand than Heathrow, Amsterdam, or Frankfurt, because the planners in the late 1960s thought BIG and have bought enough land and frozen enough developments around the airport to be able to build runways and terminals accommodating more than 150 million passengers.
All is equally true for AMS, which has reserved space for 2 more runways, enough space for more terminals and allows nighttime flights.
 

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You should take into account that a 'strike' in Dutch aviation means stopping work for a few minutes to a few hours, while in France it mostly means a stopping work for days on end. Thus the point is still very much valid.
Yeah, yeah. The Germans used to say that too about Germany, and now we've seen what has happened with the never-ending strikes of Lufthansa...
All is equally true for AMS, which has reserved space for 2 more runways, enough space for more terminals and allows nighttime flights.
In Western Europe the dominant winds blow from West to East, so that only East-West runways can be used safely or economically most of the time. Paris CDG built precisely 4 East-West parallel runways. This is a far superior design than the crisscrossing runways in all directions at Schiphol, which cannot accommodate as much traffic most of the time. With 4 runways at CDG there is simply more capacity than with 6 runways at Schiphol, due to the way they were built and prevailing winds.

As for building more runways at Schiphol, I remain skeptical. Schiphol is in the middle of the Randstad, with urbanization surrounding it all around, whereas CDG is at the northern end of the Paris urban area. So I doubt it's politically possible to build more runways at Schiphol and to vastly increase its air traffic. People would just not accept it. It's like at Heathrow in this respect.

CDG, thanks to the vision of the planners in the 1970s, has more room for expansion because far less people live around it and are impacted by the flight paths. That's especially true of the two northern doublets.



 

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As for building more runways at Schiphol, I remain skeptical. Schiphol is in the middle of the Randstad, with urbanization surrounding it all around, whereas CDG is at the northern end of the Paris urban area. So I doubt it's politically possible to build more runways at Schiphol and to vastly increase its air traffic. People would just not accept it. It's like at Heathrow in this respect.
It's not like Heathrow at all, the room for extra runways has been reserved for decades, and nothing needs to be demolished besides a few commercial buildings. There hasn't been build in the area that would be impacted by extra noise either.
 

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Jesus Christ, there is a war between a Dutchman and a Frenchman in these comments, what have I started ahahah. Its ok lads, both airports can expand in to the stratosphere and French definitely have a great work ethic yaya..... ))))
 
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