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Nomadic Wind
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If you look at central and southern architecture you can't really give it a definite period style. They seem to be very varied. The structures in there appear different from eachother, that's why it looks like a mess sometimes.
Can you give me a "concrete" example?? aka. put few pictures side-by-side and show me the variance within the Hue architecture, since I don't see it.

And again, even if there's a variance from one building to another? What's wrong with it? That only adds to the diversity of our architecture, making each building unique. It would be so boring if all buildings look the same, or follow the same rigid type. It's not like all the buildings in the North look the same anyway. Just as the same case as the Northern style, the Hue buildings have variance between each particular building, yet still follow the same patterns.
 

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Nomadic Wind
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Other countries actually develop their own styles to make it better. If you look at citadels of China, Thailand etc they actually have a distince style.
Examples too, please

From what i know, chinese architecture does not follow one rigid style. Chinese architecture varies from periods to periods. Within a period, there's variance between regions. For instance, Beijing Forbidden City's architecture is different from that of Suzhou garden, or Cantonese temple styles
 

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Nomadic Wind
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289 Posts
Actually, I think the exterior of Khai Dinh tomb and the its ceiling decoration is quite detailed and refined.

Other than Khai Dinh tomb, I think Hue palace complex is sub-standard. It tries to imitate the Forbidden City in Beijing but it failed miserably, both in scale and in details.

Hanoi and surrounding areas still have hundreds of pagodas and temples which are authentic and hamornious in decoration.
The imitation of Forbidden City in Beijing only exists in the names of few important structures like Ngo Mon, Thai Hoa. If you look at the entire plan and especially the architecture (put one picture of Hue and one of Beijing side-by-side), you will find this complex very unique. About scale, well, obviously VN wasn't as rich as China back in that time, and the Dynasty that built Hue citadel only last approx. 150 years, so that's all they have to offer. The beijing forbidden city was built, rebuilt, decorated for a period of more than 600 years (Yuan, Ming, and Qing), obviously the scale is way greater.

About details, we can't really conclude anything, because what we see are only the ruins of the Hue palace complex, after it was destroyed twice by warfare (1947 and 1968) and hurricanes as well. The existing buildings are in very bad condition as well. To see the original splendors of this complex, please refers to the old pics here

nguyentl.free.fr/html/photo_la_plus_vielle_vn.htm

Thanks
 

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The imitation of Forbidden City in Beijing only exists in the names of few important structures like Ngo Mon, Thai Hoa. If you look at the entire plan and especially the architecture (put one picture of Hue and one of Beijing side-by-side), you will find this complex very unique. About scale, well, obviously VN wasn't as rich as China back in that time, and the Dynasty that built Hue citadel only last approx. 150 years, so that's all they have to offer. The beijing forbidden city was built, rebuilt, decorated for a period of more than 600 years (Yuan, Ming, and Qing), obviously the scale is way greater.

About details, we can't really conclude anything, because what we see are only the ruins of the Hue palace complex, after it was destroyed twice by warfare (1947 and 1968) and hurricanes as well. The existing buildings are in very bad condition as well. To see the original splendors of this complex, please refers to the old pics here

nguyentl.free.fr/html/photo_la_plus_vielle_vn.htm

Thanks

I dont want to diss the complex, all I did was to give an honest assessment of the Hue palace complex. I visited the complex 2 years ago, it was a huge dissapointment. Only Khai Dinh tomb worths my visit there.

There are several reasons that Hue palace complex is sub-standard, some of them are:
- Very short (ceilings, walls, etc), it is far inferior to the monumentous height and width of the Forbidden City in Beijing.
- Over-decoration in some places and lacks of details in others, things like broken porcerlain mozaic is easy to do and look very ugly.
- Ugly roof due to using Chinese tiles rather than traditional Vietnamese one. And the one used was inferior in equality to the Chinese one.
etc...etc...

Though saying that, I think the interior is sort of ok because they used "son son thiep vang" technics imported from the North.
 

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Nomadic Wind
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289 Posts
- Over-decoration in some places and lacks of details in others, things like broken porcerlain mozaic is easy to do and look very ugly.
- Ugly roof due to using Chinese tiles rather than traditional Vietnamese one. And the one used was inferior in equality to the Chinese one.
etc...etc...
Though saying that, I think the interior is sort of ok because they used "son son thiep vang" technics imported from the North.
Umm, about broken porcelain mosaic, I'm not sure if its easy to do. It seems harder than just painting on the wall, but again not sure about this. But pretty or ugly depends on the "eyes of the beholders" . I think it make those decorations unique. Broken porcelain mosaic is also used in the north too, just not as quite as extensive.
About roofing, the Thang Long Citadel also used the tube yin yang roofs too. So such roofing had been used in our imperial palaces way before the Hue one
http://www.thanglongxua.com
 

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Nomadic Wind
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289 Posts
Example of Variance

Put these two buildings side by side, and see how much they resembles each other, notice the decorations on the roof! Lưỡng long chầu nguyệt. The dragon motiff is the same. The decoration motiff "big box next to small box, two adjacent boxes have different colors" are the same.

Also, notice all the dragons on the roofs of most of the pic you post, they follow the same motiff

Also, note that all the roofs are straght (non-curvy). There are 3 types of tile used: Hoàng Luư Ly (yellow), Thanh Lưu Ly (green), and Liệt (flat), each resembles its own meaning.

In short, Hue palace architecture follows a set rules (trùng luơng trùng thềm), yet still leave rooms for the distinctiveness of each structure. Most buildings that look a lot different from the rest are those built in Khải Định & Bảo Đại era.
 

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You'll never walk alone
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Do you guys know what kind of tiles they use here? I think its neither tube-tile nor scale-tile.
 

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Premium Member
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Umm, about broken porcelain mosaic, I'm not sure if its easy to do. It seems harder than just painting on the wall, but again not sure about this. But pretty or ugly depends on the "eyes of the beholders" . I think it make those decorations unique. Broken porcelain mosaic is also used in the north too, just not as quite as extensive.
About roofing, the Thang Long Citadel also used the tube yin yang roofs too. So such roofing had been used in our imperial palaces way before the Hue one
http://www.thanglongxua.com
ask not what other people think about u, ask what coolink thinks about Hue

I'm with you all the way from the very first posts to the very last!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obviously people had no idea what they're talking about and hadn't a clue about history, yet voice their views reflected on personal opinions.

back to the time when porcelain were considered luxury, yet Imperial Hue used them for building element. You have to understand the scale and magnitude of this grand presentation.
Some people compared the 1800-1900 with today, they think broken tiles were cheap china tiles found anywhere. The material to put them together was cheap cement tơo perhaps (?)

You have to read history text to understand, how much those porcelain cost Imperial Hue. They had to import tons of perfect Ming's chinawares , brought them home to Hue, broke them to pieces manually, and they had to use honey, sticky rice along with other natural building materials to put those porcelain tiles together. They didn't come cheap, believe me, they used expensive materials in their days to put together Hue.

So don't come in here and cast your judgement based on personal views about how architecture from this era is better than the other, or vice versa.

Languages evolved, customs evolved, everything changes, so is architecture, we nêeded revolution to explore to reach the state of perfection.

Don;t tell me northern Vietnamese architecture is uniquely Vietnamese, and did not borrow any feature from Chinese architecture. Read your history, "Vietnamese messengers came to China to study architecture"

And don;t tell me northern Vietnamese architecture is better than the south and central Vietnam. Southern VN was built by the Chinese refugêes. So southern architectures influenced by the Chinese is perfectly understandable. There should be no judgment there.

central VN architecture has a world of their own. Hue is and example of revolution, Vietnamese renaissance. So when you compare the classical world of the northern Vietnamese architecture with the Central Hue renaissance is like comparing apples and oranges. There is no way you can say which is better, which is great. they all had stories to tell.

When you depise one over the other, you are not kêen in architectures, you don't care about history, you care about your personal taste.
just like someone came in the church thread years ago and said "I like budist temple, and hindu temple, and mosques, but don't like churches and never will"

that is so dull brother

beauty is beauty, if you love architectures you sêe beauty in every single standing structure. your comment only tells me the love-hate affair you have for the religion, and nothing else. Not a single thing about that comment tells me that you loving architecture. Hindu temple and Mosque they are the masks, you don't like them, you hadn;t clue about them, seriously.

So don't tell me northern Vietnam architecture is the best. They represent Vietnamese architecture, periodically, yes. They are timeless, yes. But don;t use that to stomp on Hue. Hue has it values, Hue isn't built in a day. don;t choke Hue, just because Hue is "not yours" while northern architecture "is yours" or familiar to your sights and sounds. so you have to stay your best on the defensive side, because you grew up with it.
 

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Vivat capitalismus
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central VN architecture has a world of their own. Hue is and example of revolution, Vietnamese renaissance. So when you compare the classical world of the northern Vietnamese architecture with the Central Hue renaissance is like comparing apples and oranges. There is no way you can say which is better, which is great. they all had stories to tell.
I agree, Nguyen dynasty has created a brand new style, building grandiose things all around Vietnam. Until then, Vietnamese never built anything at that scale.
 
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