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Good news for the Australian Unis sector but more funding is required.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...-bonus-for-city/2008/05/25/1211653848663.html


Ranking on unis a bonus for city

Farrah Tomazin
May 26, 2008


MELBOURNE is edging closer to becoming the world's top university city, but experts warn our status is at risk of decline unless governments and business take radical action to bolster higher education across the state.

The latest Global University City Index � which measures cities on their ability to establish strong universities � has Melbourne in fourth place (up one spot), slightly ahead of Sydney and trailing London, Boston and Tokyo.

But leading business and university chiefs have warned that while Melbourne's liveability and attractiveness to foreign students are key strengths, the city is constrained by the lack of government investment in university research and infrastructure.

"There are areas where we could do better, and some of those things have to do with the investment in our universities, both in education and research," said RMIT University vice-chancellor Margaret Gardner, whose university developed the rankings.

"You can't neglect your educational infrastructure, because at that point you lose your attractiveness. The other area that needs significant boosting and would lift Melbourne in this index goes to our research performance and the percentage of our GDP that is spent on research, which is lower than a number of other significant countries in the OECD."

The Global University City Index was created by RMIT to highlight some of the world's top "knowledge economies". Cities are assessed on a range of measures: liveability, education expenditure (on research and students); the number of graduates produced; and how many universities the city has in the Financial Times Higher Education top universities list (Melbourne has three: Melbourne University, Monash and RMIT).

When the rankings were produced for the first time last year, an accompanying paper by the Committee for Melbourne warned that our higher education system was at a "tipping point" because of government underfunding, business complacency and increasing international competition.

The report called for radical reform, including the abolition of payroll tax for universities, better public transport for students, and greater recognition for international students. However, little has been done since then to address these areas, prompting further warnings that Melbourne could lose or struggle to maintain its status.

Committee for Melbourne chief executive Sally Capp said that while governments had a role to play, business should also plough more money into universities, and individuals should be "even more welcoming and inclusive of our international students".

This year's index sees Paris slipping from its thirde position last year, to number seven, largely because it had a smaller number of universities listed in the Financial Times rankings than previous years.

London, home to leading institutions such as the London School of Economics, retained its number one spot. Boston, home to institutions such as Harvard and MIT, again came in second, followed by Tokyo, which moved from fourth to third this year.

Five cities entered the top 20 this year, including Pittsburgh, Vienna, Vancouver, Philadelphia, and Munich.

TOP SEATS OF LEARNING

The 2008 Global University City IndexCity Country Rank '08 ('07)London Britain 1 (1)Boston US 2 (2)Tokyo Japan 3 (4)Melbourne Australia 4 (5)Sydney Australia 5 (6)Pittsburgh US 6 (-)Paris France 7 (3)Vienna Austria 8 (-)Chicago US 9 (8)New York US 10 (7)
 

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I hate these University ranking systems. Large Universities with lots of students always score higher as they have more published peer reviewed articles compared to small institutions such as the Max Planck institutes or the Institute of Neurology in London despite them both being world leaders in their respective fields.

But hey, who am I to complain, Auckland scores highly and so to the uneducated masses, I have a good degree. Ya boo sucks to you.
 

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I hate these University ranking systems. Large Universities with lots of students always score higher as they have more published peer reviewed articles compared to small institutions such as the Max Planck institutes or the Institute of Neurology in London despite them both being world leaders in their respective fields.

But hey, who am I to complain, Auckland scores highly and so to the uneducated masses, I have a good degree. Ya boo sucks to you.
It may be a valid complaint that smaller universities are unfairly marked because of their size, but the institutes you mentioned do not rank because they are not universities - Max Plank Institutes do not grant Bachelor degrees (if they confer any degrees at all), while IoN is associated with University College London (which ranked in the top 10 in the THES anyway).
 

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It may be a valid complaint that smaller universities are unfairly marked because of their size, but the institutes you mentioned do not rank because they are not universities - Max Plank Institutes do not grant Bachelor degrees (if they confer any degrees at all), while IoN is associated with University College London (which ranked in the top 10 in the THES anyway).
But that's the problem, the IoN is a top research institute, but it's lumped together with UCL which I don't view at anything like the same level as the UCL is more catering for the Undergrad years of study (and I know it's affiliated with the UCL, my Mother worked there for many years. ;))

The Max Planck institutes do offer PhD's and what not after they are undersigned by a relevant University. A further example of this situation would be the MDC in Berlin which issues PhD's undersigned by Humboldt University.

I guess my overriding point is that Universities do a lot of shoddy work at Undergrad level and institutions who do good postdoctoral work do not necessarily get recognised as they should. It's the postdoctoral work that matters at the end of the day in academia so contriving and manipulating rankings like this (which many undergrad led Unis do) to strut around and pontificate that they are some of the top research institutes worldwide is a fallacy and unfortunately the general public know no better.
 

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We need to do something about HECS fees. Thanks to fucking Howard and his awful awful government, we now have some of the most expensive University degrees in the world. It's absolutely bloody appalling that we let those shitheads ruin this country for a decade and now we're paying the price. I'd be happy to pay $1000, $2000, even $3000 a year, but a fucking $40,000 degree? **** off, idiots. This country's priorities are wrong when a University degree can cost a couple of TENS of thousands of dollars. Absolute disgrace. I don't think even foreign students should pay as much as they do.
 

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We need to do something about HECS fees. Thanks to fucking Howard and his awful awful government, we now have some of the most expensive University degrees in the world. It's absolutely bloody appalling that we let those shitheads ruin this country for a decade and now we're paying the price.
Can you explain how is it single-handedly their fault? I know the Howard Government definitely had shit education policies, but in my first few months at these places, I get the feeling that an university education is expensive in this country because they're just really overbloated with too much staff and bureaucracy, some very lazy lecturers, and overpaid tutors. I'm happy there's VSU. I don't claim to know these places inside out but my god I think there should be some reform to make these more places more efficient because extra gazillions of dollars the new government may put in will mostly go to waste.
 

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We need to do something about HECS fees. Thanks to fucking Howard and his awful awful government, we now have some of the most expensive University degrees in the world. It's absolutely bloody appalling that we let those shitheads ruin this country for a decade and now we're paying the price.
I was lucky enough they changed the law the year before I left grammar school and let me get a full fee place at Melbourne Uni. My ENTER score was 3 lower than required for a government funded HECS place but I was determined to get in and make a decent effort, for which I've come out with a 1st class degree and a job in my dream profession.

Under the previous law that wasn't possible. I think the new system is great. My mates who put in the real hard yards at school got their tax payer funded education, and subsequent determination and hard work earned me a degree too :)

And my admission was over and above the HECS allocation so this was a NEW place, no one sat out who earned a HECS spot because of me. Why should I be denied an education because an elite few think they ought to control how we live our lives....Reverse elitism!!!!!!!!!!!:lol:

Contrast this with my sister(2years older), she missed her Physio course by 1.5 ENTER points and has been fucking around ever since on a tax payer funded HECS Arts course she really isn't passionate about approaching 4 years now and still going. I wonder who's education policy she would have voted for. What a wank:bash:

And before anyone has a go at my 'tax payer funded HECS' comments, get a sense of perspective because it's mainly true. That is the debt you repay is really only a fraction of the cost of your education!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(I actually support this system rewarding hard working kids)
 

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I'd be happy to pay $1000, $2000, even $3000 a year, but a fucking $40,000 degree? **** off, idiots.
The average HECS debt is a lot lover than $40,000 a year I think you'll find. My mates have an average debt of $15-20,000 after 3 and 4 years full time. That is interest free loan and payable when you reach a certain income level. Could you develop your point a little bit? I believe you may be victim to sensationalism in reports about education funding. Usually by the same clowns that want 100% of government funds stripped from our church schools.
 

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We need to do something about HECS fees. Thanks to fucking Howard and his awful awful government, we now have some of the most expensive University degrees in the world. It's absolutely bloody appalling that we let those shitheads ruin this country for a decade and now we're paying the price. I'd be happy to pay $1000, $2000, even $3000 a year, but a fucking $40,000 degree? **** off, idiots. This country's priorities are wrong when a University degree can cost a couple of TENS of thousands of dollars. Absolute disgrace. I don't think even foreign students should pay as much as they do.
It's very much like an American system now. Except in America, they take out a loan about 50,000 from credit union with 20% interest. Our 'credit union' is the government.

I don't have hecs debt coz i payed upfront and got 20% discount, but still...i hate the idea of students being in debt even before starting to work.
 

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But that's the problem, the IoN is a top research institute, but it's lumped together with UCL which I don't view at anything like the same level as the UCL is more catering for the Undergrad years of study (and I know it's affiliated with the UCL, my Mother worked there for many years. ;))

The Max Planck institutes do offer PhD's and what not after they are undersigned by a relevant University. A further example of this situation would be the MDC in Berlin which issues PhD's undersigned by Humboldt University.

I guess my overriding point is that Universities do a lot of shoddy work at Undergrad level and institutions who do good postdoctoral work do not necessarily get recognised as they should. It's the postdoctoral work that matters at the end of the day in academia so contriving and manipulating rankings like this (which many undergrad led Unis do) to strut around and pontificate that they are some of the top research institutes worldwide is a fallacy and unfortunately the general public know no better.
You can hardly criticize the various university rankings for restricting themselves to their purpose - to rank universities, facilities that provide both education and undertake research. If you wish pure research institutes to be considered separately, then this should not be a black mark on university rankings. They're poor for many more signficant reasons, some of which you raised.

Beyond this, why do the public really need to know about top research institutes? Those in academia are well aware of what the premier research centers are in their field. As you mentioned, the quality of original research is much more important than where it is undertaken. Who really cares about these ranking? University admin and the marketing department, because they can use a good score to attract undergraduate students.

cowface said:
I get the feeling that an university education is expensive in this country because they're just really overbloated with too much staff and bureaucracy, some very lazy lecturers, and overpaid tutors.
This may be institution/faculty dependent, but in my experience in working as a tutor for 2 unis (it pays better than working behind a bar) there is serious cost cutting going on: rarely were there enough tutors to have decent sized groups, practicals were the cheapest that could possibly be done and lecturers were often overworked (some are simply told to give lectures without any monetary compensation for the time lost in preparing and presenting, or a 'fixed' lecturer is under contract to provide all/most of the lectures in a course rather than pay casual but expert lecturers [the rate in December last year at UQ was $136/hr of presentation].

akel6 said:
I was lucky enough they changed the law the year before I left grammar school and let me get a full fee place at Melbourne Uni. My ENTER score was 3 lower than required for a government funded HECS place but I was determined to get in and make a decent effort, for which I've come out with a 1st class degree and a job in my dream profession.

Under the previous law that wasn't possible. I think the new system is great. My mates who put in the real hard yards at school got their tax payer funded education, and subsequent determination and hard work earned me a degree too

And my admission was over and above the HECS allocation so this was a NEW place, no one sat out who earned a HECS spot because of me. Why should I be denied an education because an elite few think they ought to control how we live our lives....Reverse elitism!!!!!!!!!!!

Contrast this with my sister(2years older), she missed her Physio course by 1.5 ENTER points and has been fucking around ever since on a tax payer funded HECS Arts course she really isn't passionate about approaching 4 years now and still going. I wonder who's education policy she would have voted for. What a wank

And before anyone has a go at my 'tax payer funded HECS' comments, get a sense of perspective because it's mainly true. That is the debt you repay is really only a fraction of the cost of your education!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(I actually support this system rewarding hard working kids)
I don't have an issue with full fee places, but i don't think that it Trunter's argument. I'm also concerned about the increasing cost of getting an education

As for the 'fraction of the cost of your education big', we are talking a signficant fraction: in an average degree for every dollar the federal government contirbutes the student is paying around 40 cents. This isn't a token contribution. Most degrees have a contribution of approximately $7,000 a year. Those doing medicine, law, dentistry pay more, and such a degree will have a total contribution of about$33,000. I am a fan of some sort of contribution because it provides at least some incentive to get in and get out, but the current levels are getting too high.
 

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As for the 'fraction of the cost of your education big', we are talking a signficant fraction
Yeah i'll admit I went over the top in that claim :) But the principle stands. For the record my contribution was approximately $17,000 per year. I don't mind paying for an education if it means more kids can get in to uni. I believe in making a contribution if the means are available. I'm actually surprised the labor party haven't means tested HECS because it seems to be the flavour of the month.

I mean really, rich kids or those higher on the socio-economic ladder are usually more likely to get those tax payer funded HECS spots anyway because they usually go to high performing private schools and get the highest ENTER's. Most of my mates from my Anglican grammar school are on HECS and their families are doing very well. They are laughing all the way to the bank(The off-shore bank that is!!!!:lol:).
 

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I would like to see where Adelaide placed.

We have just signed a new agreement to open a London University College campus.

That means Adelaide will have UniSA, Flinders ,Uni of Adelaide, Carnegie Mellon (American), Cranfield (UK ) and now London Uni.

Not bad..
 

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Plus Ballarat Uni, what makes this great is that those uni's are all located in the city (except Flinders),

Those foreign unis are great for Adelaide, though UniSA, Adelaide and Flinders are the still the main universites in South Australia.
 

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Heres the article
University College to open first British uni campus in SA

GREG KELTON, STATE EDITOR
May 29, 2008 09:50am
LONDON'S University College will open Australia's first British university campus in Adelaide.

The university has signed an agreement to establish a school of energy and resources with the State Government.

The prestigious Cranfield University in Bedfordshire will also establish a campus in SA and the American Carnegie Mellon university has already done so.

The centre will specialise in the area of global energy use teaching about 60 masters students with work starting in 2009.

University spokesman Marco Federighi said the school would enable it to play its part in addressing the complex worldwide energy challenge.

Officials visited Adelaide late last year to conduct a feasibility study and Premier Mike Rann held talks with the college during a trip to Europe and the UK in May.

At the time, he said the moves would underpin what he called "Adelaide's reputation as Australia's university city".

Adelaide has more than 22,000 overseas students at tertiary institutions.

Carnegie Mellon has about 100 students at its two campuses.

The Government and Cranfield are spending about $1.5 million over three years developing its Adelaide operations.

Cranfield has already delivered two short-course executive programs – on logistical support and electronic warfare – in Adelaide in March and April last year.
 

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Can you explain how is it single-handedly their fault?
Okay. So the average Uni student had to pay around $1000-$2000 during the Hawke-Keating years. Howard arrived and in a matter of 10 years, degrees now cost well into the tens of thousands. They clearly did not have their priorities set on education if they can allow something like that to happen to University fees. I can pay for my education, I don't mind it, I'm not advocating for free University places, but I do have a problem when degrees can cost such a huge figure. As Miliux has said, we've definitely gone down the American road and if there's one country we should not emulate or copy when it comes to education (or healthcare, or gun policies), it's that country. We have some of the most expensive tuition fees in the world I believe, I think some degrees went up $7000 under the Howard reign. Putting the burden onto University students is not on in my opinion, and it's a shame I haven't heard anything from the new government about what to do with this ridiculous problem we have now thanks to a decade of awful governance.

All I know is that they most likely won't raise HECS fees anymore. If Howard had won, he'd probably have raised it to $200,000. A semester. All I can say is thank goodness he's gone and that awful decade is over!
 
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