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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was inspired by Metro from Beyonddc to create this thread. What do you all think about Baltimore-DC relations? What is their current state? How can they be improved? Who is responsible for the animosity and why is it there?
 

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Good idea for a thread, modest. Let's just hope it can stay civil. I don't think it should be a problem though, our forum is a lot friendlier than most other forums, I think.

The relationship between the two cities probably isn't on the forefront of most people's minds. Unless you're one of the many that live in one city and work in the other, you probably don't pay much heed to the relationship. This isn't because the cities are not intertwined enough, but it is just how people are. A person who lives in Towson/Bethesda and works in downtown Baltimore/DC, probably doesn't dwell to much on what's going on in Catonsville/Silver Spring. It's just how we are.

I think you would be hard pressed, however, to find a pair of cities that compliment each other as well as DC and Baltimore do. They are just about as different as two cities forty miles apart can be, and yet when compared to a city like Dallas or Phoenix, appear so strikingly similar.

I would like to see the two cities grow closer, but I would hope they would remain as distinct from one another as they are now. I think this is going to fall on Baltimore's shoulders. I feel DC has a much more defined identity at the present moment. Baltimore is in a time of transition, and it's going to take some time before its role as a blue-collar port town is supplanted with a new generation Baltimore. With so many "Washingtonians" moving in, it'll be difficult for Baltimore not to begin to resemble DC in many regards, but I think Baltimore has enough stored up character that it'll end up changing the Washingtonians before they end up changing Charm City, much as Philly has managed to charm its way out of becoming the sixth borough.

Sports rivalries aside, I think most of the animosity exists between the small population that actually is conscious of the other city on a regular basis. I think for most Baltimoreans, DC is not even on the radar, and I would imagine that it is the same in DC regarding Baltimore. I think the animosity can be pretty much summed up in that DC thinks it is too big-time for Baltimore, and Baltimore thinks DC is snobby for failing to acknowledge all the contributions that Baltimore provides to the region.
 

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I was inspired by Metro from Beyonddc to create this thread. What do you all think about Baltimore-DC relations? What is their current state? How can they be improved? Who is responsible for the animosity and why is it there?
What relations? I don't see much animosity, except from among a few people who wish to see that, but also, when did our respective mayors ever lunch together, launch a joint effort or do anything cooperatively? We seem to share a huge traffic bubble, but other than that...?
 

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Honestly, the animosity is one sided. I rarely hear DC people talk bad about Baltimore. Most people think that it is a great getaway from DC. They talk about going to Baltimore as if it is a grand excursion into an unknown place when it is just 40 minutes up the parkway. I root for the Orioles and Nationals. I also like the Ravens as my AFC team. I agree that there needs to be more regional cooperation. Some posters on this board act like DC is a problem for Maryland. Like all this shit we have would still be here if DC didn't exist.
 

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This is what I have to say about rivalries

Taken from this article on ESPN http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=2908361

Especially now. The Orioles are 29-40, they're in last place in the American League East, and they've lost eight games in a row, including three at home to the rival Nationals, which led to the firing of manager Sam Perlozzo. His departure soon will be followed by the naming of Andy MacPhail as chief operating officer of a team in desperate need of change.

Note how this writer mentions the Nationals as the Orioles rivals. The Nationals are a NEW team (were they our rivals when they were the Expos??) and have no deep or profound history or relationship with the Orioles other than proximity.

Thats usually the number one reason for a rivalrys existence.. proximity of two similar entities (and sometimes just because someone says its a rivalry).

Another thing you have to understand about a rivalry is that it can be one sided and not everyone is going to feel the same about it. Im pretty sure youve got some people at UMCP that dont give a damn about Duke.. and guess what.. NO ONE at duke gives a damn about UMCP and when asked about their "rivals" at CP.. what do they say?? CP??? theyre not our rivals, UNC is.

And how do people at CP respond??? THOSE POMPOUS PRICKS!!!! So full of themselves and so caught up in their riches that they don't think we are worthy of their time.. and that only fuels Marylands passion for their "rivalry" with Duke even more.

It IS a little different because people will not only say Baltimore is not a rival but also a friend, but when someone wants to have a rival, they'll only take it as someone being stuck up or cocky.

I think Im just trying to say.. Baltimore and DC arent going to go to war any time soon. Rivalries are supposed to be fun. Even if you don't care about it, as long as no ones bothering you, let them have their fun. Hopefully no one will be hurtful in what they say or do.

This is what I have to say about DCs image to Baltimoreans.

DC is seen as being stuck up.. Most people that move to baltimore or start hanging out in Baltimore say they got tired of DC because its always about money, status, and image. I know its not going to be the case like that everywhere and with everyone.. but I do believe you're a lot more likely to deal with that in DC than in Baltimore.

Its all about the coach bags for girls and A|X tshirts for guys.

Separate rivalry from difference in desires or opinion

When the skins and ravens play, just have fun.. its a rivalry.. plenty of ppl hate each other for 4 hours on Sundays and go back to being best of friends afterwards. Two guys might go to rival colleges and work for each other later.. being able to poke jabs at the others school and still being able to separate that from their regular lives and work together is what a rivalry should be like.

Some people are turned off by things in DC (I think animosity is too strong of a word cause I dont think people for the most part go around thinking about how much they hate DC). Theyre entitled to their opinions about DC whether someone feels the same way about Baltimore or not. Hopefully they wont prejudge everyone and everything that comes out of DC, and hopefully their opinion isnt so strong to where they feel the need to talk trash about DC all the time or beat up nationals fans when they come to baltimore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
IMO Baltimore completely ignores all it gains from DC:

The number of Baltimoreans (including suburbs) who commute to the high paying jobs of Washington is not insignificant. Is it any wonder that Baltimore's wealthiest suburb (Ellicott City) is on the road to Washington?

Baltimore's real estate market (including residential and commercial) is buffered by the much larger, and more expensive Washington market. Prices will never fall too much in Baltimore because if Washingtonians (regular citizens and developers) start seeing great deals in Baltimore they'll buy it up.

Tourism: Washington is one of the biggest tourist destinations in the world (housing 3 of the world's 5 most visited museums). Baltimore makes a convenient second leg of a trip to the nation's capital. I can't imagine how many people visit Baltimore every year because of the convenience due to its proximity to Washington.
 

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Ellicott City isn't Baltimore's wealthiest suburb is it? I wouldn't even put it in the top 3.
Baltimore Magazine did an article on this a couple months ago. Couldn't find the article online, but I have the info.

Based on Median Household Income (2000)
Clarksville - 113k
Phoenix - 101k
Davidsonville - 98k
Severna Park - 87k
Baldwin - 87k
Fallston - 86k

Based on Median Home Price (2006)
Clarksville - 705k
Davidsonville - 669k
Phoenix - 600k
Freeland - 565k
Parkton - 545k
Severna Park - 517k
 

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Baltimore Magazine did an article on this a couple months ago. Couldn't find the article online, but I have the info.

Based on Median Household Income (2000)
Clarksville - 113k
Phoenix - 101k
Davidsonville - 98k
Severna Park - 87k
Baldwin - 87k
Fallston - 86k

Based on Median Home Price (2006)
Clarksville - 705k
Davidsonville - 669k
Phoenix - 600k
Freeland - 565k
Parkton - 545k
Severna Park - 517k
Parkie checking in:banana: clarksville definitely has a lotta dc area commuters. not sure if it's the majority. dville is south of annapolis. noit sure of the commuter composition there. do any of these towns other than sp have a pop of at least 25k? if this were done by zip codes ellicott city 21042, some columbia zip codes could be on the list i think. shouldn't some other hoco towns be up there? what about arnold, crownsville? maybe an annapolis zip if this were being done by zips? maybe even a towson zip and perhaps ive left out others. sparks?

yeah dc does seem to help the baltimore suburbs as far as income which I am grateful for. though we can speculate about this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
i don't think the idea for having this thread was a good one. what's the point of it?
I created the thread because I've heard complaints from both cities about the other and I wanted to explore the basis for those complaints. Also, I think regional cooperation is lacking.

How does everyone feel about creating a BWMATA (Baltimore-Washington Metro Area Transit Authority).
 

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To bring more seamless continuity to the Baltimore Washington there will need to be two main rail connections, IMHO. One is the Green Line extension from Greenbelt to BWI which is already on some drawing boards. Secondly, a rail extension from Glenmont station on the Red Line to Columbia, which would meet with rail connection into Baltimore. Those two connections will a closer community and take away some of the exoticness from going 40 miles.
 

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Except that's a pretty legitimate gripe. Baltimore directly prevented Washington from getting its own Baseball team for years.
Nah not really. Baltimore wasnt really against it. Peter Angelos was. And believe me, NO ONE in Baltimore likes Peter Angelos. Baltimore/DC = rivalry. Baltimore/Angelos = animosity.

If anything we were hoping the Orioles would get more competition. Our thinking was fewer DC area fans would mean Angelos would HAVE to spend more money to build a quality team or would, even better, get fed up and sell the team.

And I think its cool that we have the Beltway Series (or Battle of the Beltways for the Ravens/Redskins) much like the Subway Series in NY. Lots of people talk about unification of the Balt/DC area and I think its through something like a sports rivalry that the entire cmsa can benefit. When we have nationally televised games and people hear things like Beltway Series or Battle of the Beltways, they get a sense of the proximity of two of Americas great cities.. yes I said it.. great citIES. People then planning vacations or business ventures might then think they can get a two for one special by coming to the area.
 

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Except that's a pretty legitimate gripe. Baltimore directly prevented Washington from getting its own Baseball team for years.
I keep hearing this argument, but it sounds a lot like people are confusing Angelos with Jack Kent Cooke. Which teams did Baltimore (or Angelos) prevent DC from acquiring? Remembering that up until 1988 the team was owned by a Washington attorney?

Not the Marlins or the Rockies, that was before his time.
Not the Diamondbacks, Phoenix was an obvious choice for that team & had a huge amount of support from the other owners.
That leaves the Devil Rays or the Expos, the only two possibilities that DC actually had a legitimate claim to. The D-Rays weren't formed until '98, one year after the Orioles went wire-to-wire in the AL East. I don't recall hearing anyone from DC clamoring for their own team in the mid-90's.

The Expos were DC's to get. They got them as soon as they moved. (and they should thank Virginia's governor for turning the team down or else they STILL wouldn't have one)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
To bring more seamless continuity to the Baltimore Washington there will need to be two main rail connections, IMHO. One is the Green Line extension from Greenbelt to BWI which is already on some drawing boards. Secondly, a rail extension from Glenmont station on the Red Line to Columbia, which would meet with rail connection into Baltimore. Those two connections will a closer community and take away some of the exoticness from going 40 miles.
If that happened I would like to see integrated Metro maps.

Also, what name does our metro area have? DFW has the Metroplex, MSP has the Twin Cities, SanFran/Oakland/SJ has the Bay Area, what are we? I know National Capital Region will piss off the Baltimoreans....
 
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