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Un genovese a Nord-Est
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Last chapter of my Belarusian trip...

Hrodna - Грoдна - Grodno - Gardinas - גראָדנע































































 

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Un genovese a Nord-Est
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nice
maybe u should write word or two about the town and impression
Of course I wanted, but sometimes I also have to work! :D

Hrodna (Grodno in Polish and Russian, Gardinas in Lithuanian) was the place I was expeting more from before starting this trip. It's the only bigger town in Belarus which preserved most of its historical aspect and since I'm love for old towns that was surely a good start. But that's not the only one... this town is located few kilometres to Polish and Lithuanian borders and it was, till WWII, a very important Jewish centre. So a big mix of different cultures, styles, architectures and people. Nowadays it still has a big Polish minority (about 25%) while the others ethnicities have more or less disappeared (the jews, of course, during the German-nazi occupation).

The most important monuments here are catholic churches and it's probably the only town where these churches were restored (probably thanks to Polish people too). Who has been to Vilnius will probably find quite a lof of similarities in architecture between the 2 cities (which are quite close also geographically). All Hrodna's old town has that "lithuanian feel", which can be a Polish-feel as well considering that Vilnius too has been Polish for quite a while. But Hrodna is Belarusian today and the street names still remember it. So the main pedestrian street is still the Savetskaya as well as the main square (big and empty like in Soviet times) with the catholic cathedral. And the Soviet tank is still there in the square, between the 2 churches...

It's by far the prettiest town in Belarus (at least among the ones I saw, but they tell me that also among the others!), it's very well preserved and restored even if there's still some work to do. Hrodna is high above the Neman river (Nemunas in Lithuania) which splits it with its deep valley between the new and old town. You can hardly see commieblocks while you are in the old town and that makes it really unusual for Belarusian standards! :D
But the real heart of this town is another river, well mainly just a little stream, which flows into the Neman passing through the town centre, down the old castle till the big river. In Hrodna you can still see some Jewish roots, the entrance of the ghetto is still there, with a little memorial, as well as the biggest synagogue of the country, in very bad conditions and abandoned to its destiny... let's hope to see it back to its glory soon. There are 2 beautiful orthodox churches as well, while the "2 castles" are just some ruins (old castle) in a nice landscape, and a soviet-castle opposite of it. Surely the view from the "cliffs" above the Neman is really nice, expecially at sunset.

I was there on a Saturday and it looked quite a lively town, even if I could see just 1 restaurant and 1 pizzeria in the centre and really not many places to go out. Young people, like in the rest of the country, just stay in streets drinking vodka, cognac and beer.

EU is just few Km near, but still very far... if Hrodna were in Poland or Lithuania it would become fastly a big touristic centre, maybe with some low-cost flight to bring people from far away. But it's in Belarus and so also the railway station, which was once along a bigger rail-line between Warszawa and St.Petersburg (via Vilnius), is now almost deserted with few trains a day... oh yes, beautiful Hrodna with no tourists is not bad, but it deserves a better future! ;)

I slept at the Gastinitsa Belarus, they typical soviet hotel, just in front of the new "Neman" sport complex, a huge and modern one with football stadium, hockey arena and other fields for football, tennis and so on... yeah, Luka loves sports... ;)
 

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Every One Knows That Grodna, Brest Litovsk, Vilnius and Lwow are in essence Polish and are just Temporaraly occupied by unwanted assailants. and if any one says anything about our western borders i can clear up that Wroclaw, Poznan, Szczecin were all founded by Poles and the Wroclaw and Poznan were polish cities from the 10th century which were also briefly occupied by Germans in the 1800s and early 1900s but we all knew that they were always going to be Polish and have now returned to their rightfull owners were just waiting for LWOW, Vilnuis thats what i care about my Grandfather was Expelled from his home in Lwow as a child and some Russian Soviets replaced him but we will be back LWOW will be ours.
 

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^^ Cracvia you have some problems with logical part of your statement
Wroclaw, Poznan, Szczecin founded by Poles = Polish cities?
Grodna, Brest, Vilnius, and Lwow founded by Rus/Lithuanian = Polish cities also?

or maybe your brain is fulfilled with nationalistic crap?

Thanx for photos Carletto - Grodna (Grodno in polish) was one of most important cities in Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów - the last Sejm before partitions was held there... always wondered how it looks now...
 

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Every One Knows That Grodna, Brest Litovsk, Vilnius and Lwow are in essence Polish and are just Temporaraly occupied by unwanted assailants. and if any one says anything about our western borders i can clear up that Wroclaw, Poznan, Szczecin were all founded by Poles and the Wroclaw and Poznan were polish cities from the 10th century which were also briefly occupied by Germans in the 1800s and early 1900s but we all knew that they were always going to be Polish and have now returned to their rightfull owners were just waiting for LWOW, Vilnuis thats what i care about my Grandfather was Expelled from his home in Lwow as a child and some Russian Soviets replaced him but we will be back LWOW will be ours.
Yeah maybe in your little world Lviv was yours, but obviously you don’t know any history so let me remind you that Lviv was build and discovered by Ukrainians and it will always be Ukrainian. What are you going to get back if it was never yours?
 

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Every One Knows That Grodna, Brest Litovsk, Vilnius and Lwow are in essence Polish and are just Temporaraly occupied by unwanted assailants. and if any one says anything about our western borders i can clear up that Wroclaw, Poznan, Szczecin were all founded by Poles and the Wroclaw and Poznan were polish cities from the 10th century which were also briefly occupied by Germans in the 1800s and early 1900s but we all knew that they were always going to be Polish and have now returned to their rightfull owners were just waiting for LWOW, Vilnuis thats what i care about my Grandfather was Expelled from his home in Lwow as a child and some Russian Soviets replaced him but we will be back LWOW will be ours.
You have a twisted logic. In that case, if the Dutch built up New York (New Amsterdam) does it mean it is theirs??? Should New Orleans be given back to France as well and Alaska to Russians...think man.
 

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TWO THINGS:

Look at the state of the trolleybuses and at that tank close to the church....brrr
 

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The most important monuments here are catholic churches and it's probably the only town where these churches were restored (probably thanks to Polish people too). Who has been to Vilnius will probably find quite a lof of similarities in architecture between the 2 cities (which are quite close also geographically). All Hrodna's old town has that "lithuanian feel", which can be a Polish-feel as well considering that Vilnius too has been Polish for quite a while.
only 20 years ;)

Noticed that too from my visit couple of year ago. But i would rather call it the distinctive Vilnius-feel acctually. All three catholic churches are of clear cut "Vilnius baroque" style created by a german-lithuanian architect Johan Christoph Glaubitz. Hrodna generaly lived most of it's life under huge influence of Vilnius, so probably the similarity comes from there.

EU is just few Km near, but still very far... if Hrodna were in Poland or Lithuania it would become fastly a big touristic centre, maybe with some low-cost flight to bring people from far away. But it's in Belarus...
Agree here too. I live in an apartment in Vilnius, something like 25 km from the border and yet it seems that Belarus is as far as Kazachstan. It's acctually sad, considering that belarussian people were our closest friends and alies with whom we lived under Grand duchy of Lithuania for over half of millenium without any kind of opression or discrimination from the ruling lithuanian nobleman.

Anyway, thanks for sharing the pictures with us carletto ;)

Cracovia said:
Every One Knows That Grodna, Brest Litovsk, Vilnius and Lwow are in essence Polish and are just Temporaraly occupied by unwanted assailants. and if any one....
Jaceks' offspring? :lol:

"Grodna" was established as early as 12th century by ruriking princes on what was then Yotvingian (pagan Baltic/Lithuanian tribe) lands. It was quickly overrun though by Lithuanians. The city experianced great growth during the times of Great duke Vytautas the Great, who somewhy enjoyd this city more than his capitals - Vilnius and Trakai.

the name Brest Litovsk says most of it...

Vilnius - archeological findings proove that a baltic settlement existed for over 2 milleniums in Šventaragio slėnis (Saint-horns valley) before a city started establishing somewhere in 11th-12th century and when it was officially first time mentioned and received it's name in 1323.

will not hijack this thread further responding to your ridiculous claims
 

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Basarabia e Romania
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"Vilnius baroque" :lol: :nuts: ... come on guys grow up and do not try to re-write the history of architecture :cheers:
 

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Agree here too. I live in an apartment in Vilnius, something like 25 km from the border and yet it seems that Belarus is as far as Kazachstan. It's acctually sad, considering that belarussian people were our closest friends and alies with whom we lived under Grand duchy of Lithuania for over half of millenium without any kind of opression or discrimination from the ruling lithuanian nobleman.
they all say that.. :cheers:
 

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Every One Knows That Grodna, Brest Litovsk, Vilnius and Lwow are in essence Polish and are just Temporaraly occupied by unwanted assailants. and if any one says anything about our western borders i can clear up that Wroclaw, Poznan, Szczecin were all founded by Poles and the Wroclaw and Poznan were polish cities from the 10th century which were also briefly occupied by Germans in the 1800s and early 1900s but we all knew that they were always going to be Polish and have now returned to their rightfull owners were just waiting for LWOW, Vilnuis thats what i care about my Grandfather was Expelled from his home in Lwow as a child and some Russian Soviets replaced him but we will be back LWOW will be ours.
^^
:eek:hno:

did you vote for Kaczynski?
 

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"Vilnius baroque" :lol: :nuts: ... come on guys grow up and do not try to re-write the history of architecture :cheers:
Either learn to read or just bugger off... "Vilnius baroque" is a distinctive branck of late baroque style that started forming in Vilnius in 17th century with influence of Michelangelo Palloni and Giovanni Pietro Perti, but formed completly in 18th century, mostly at the hands of Johan Christoph Glaubitz. This distinctive style later spread over the region. Understand now?

BL said:
they all say that..
Throughout thoose more than 500 years, there wasn't a single insurgency movement. A third of Lithuania's "conquest" was achieved through diplomacy, marriages and voluntary inccorporation. Everyone was free to believe in whatever religion or god they want (There was a period in Vilnius, when christians, orthodoxes, jews, pagans and even muslims were living side by side without any documented persecusions, hatred or religion related crimes). And that's just a couple of facts
 

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Thanx for a good thread.
 

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Basarabia e Romania
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"Vilnius baroque" :lol: :nuts: ... come on guys grow up and do not try to re-write the history of architecture :cheers:
What I meant ...

Baroque architecture is only one and started in Italy; was re-developed, experimented and had precursors and features throughout Europe and not only: Spanish, French, Hungarian,Vilnius, Moscow Baroque etc etc. ... capito?!?! Get a trip to Florence and you will understand why the crown is there !!!! Start with Brunelleschi first :nuts:

PS keep it down with me sunny !!!
 

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^^
:eek:hno:

did you vote for Kaczynski?
^^ no i voted for the Tusk!!!! I dont like Kaczynski hes a dick!! and everyone has some nationalistic feelings from time time i know that it is unrealistic and has a very small chance of comming into being and even if we did get lwow back it would be a burden on our economy...:lol: i acctually am not as twisted and nationalistic as you might think that post came out all wrong it was a stir of the moment thing u know a speak before you think scenario..i apologise if i offended anyone...
 

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Iroquois of Europe
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only 20 years ;)
Everybody has right to its interpretation of the history. Fortunately people want to hear interpretation of the stronger one. ;)
Cheers for the adjoining of the Lithuanian noble families to the Polish "coat of arms name" system in 1413. :cheers:
Cheers for the polish speaking noble nation of the Republic of Both Nations. :cheers:
Cheers for the Dei Gratia rex Poloniae, magnus dux Lithuaniae, Russie, Prussiae, Masoviae, Samogitiae, Kijoviae, Volhyniae, Podoliae, Podlachiae, Livoniae, Smolensciae, Severiae, Czerniechoviae permanent residence; federal parliament (in so called Royal Castle); and residences of the magnates from the Great Duchy of Lithuania in Warsaw. :cheers:
Cheers for Lithuanian poets Adomas Mickevičius and Česlovas Milošas. :cheers:
Cheers for the Polish speaking Lithuanians in Vilniaus apskritis. :cheers:
Cheers for the Lithuanian participants of the uprisings in 1830 and 1863. :cheers:

Of course I don't think that Vilnius is temporarily occupied by unwanted assailants. It's a ridiculous statement of poorly educated kid. We can't concentrate on the past, we need take care of the future. :)
 
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