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From yesterday. Just one more floor to go by the look of it.
IMGP0063 by hypnotoad24, on Flickr
IMGP0064 by hypnotoad24, on Flickr
IMGP0063 by hypnotoad24, on Flickr
IMGP0064 by hypnotoad24, on Flickr
BELFAST | 65 - 67 Dublin Road (The Gallery) | 32m | Complete
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I saw this on another site, aparrently these flats are going to be crap
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/208378-the-gallery-dublin-rd/
Even better, this was written by the planning service on the application:
"The supporting statement for the application refers to the proposal being a 'high quality property'. It is considered that the proposed finishes, entrance to the apartments and size of the apartments will not result in a high quality product. Design unit commented that the entrance to the apartments does not appear to comply with universal accessibility requirements white the apartment sizes 'barely make the grade as hotel bedrooms."
Jesus wept
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/208378-the-gallery-dublin-rd/
Even better, this was written by the planning service on the application:
"The supporting statement for the application refers to the proposal being a 'high quality property'. It is considered that the proposed finishes, entrance to the apartments and size of the apartments will not result in a high quality product. Design unit commented that the entrance to the apartments does not appear to comply with universal accessibility requirements white the apartment sizes 'barely make the grade as hotel bedrooms."
Jesus wept
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They're tiny, although I always knew they would be. These are being marketed at buy-to-let investors and I know there's been significant interest from Britain.
I know of one couple that placed a reserve deposit but have now found something more spacious in Belfast CC, they lost the deposit but didn't care as they were tiny.
The finish inside may be good quality but they are small apartments, they're more like studio apartments. Not necessarily a bad thing as it'll suit some people but too small for me personally.
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Slightly off topic, has anyone heard of any plans to build studio apartments in Belfast?
It's quite interesting to see another forum on a similar issue. It's also interesting to see the tone is very different, a lot more cynical I feel but YMMV.
Nonetheless there's some interesting home truths there and in the other threads. Though the small studios aren't a million miles away from the London-ilk, and are positively palatial compared to Japanese ones. As a long term home yeah not great, but as a pad for 2-3 years it'll be grand. It's not particularly thinner than you see a lot of semi-detached houses are (admittedly they at least have two storeys), but they do look quite long and that may help.
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I'm all for cynicism, me. We deserve better from capitalism, just because they can mug us off by building overpriced tat, doesn't mean they should. After all there's a lot of talk about how better quality housing is in northern Europe, market conditions (or higher morals among the business class) there deliver much more for the customer than they do here. Your average fifties council flat can be four times better than what the British private sector often comes up with nowadays. Think about that for a second. Buildings from half a century ago- when hot water and indoor toilets were a rarity- can provide markedly better living conditions than today. I can see how conditions might plateau over the decades, but I can't sympathise with the property developers who have managed to make them sink to the bottom. The people who live in this building for three years won't just have to put up with living in cramped conditions, their rent may well bear no relation to the fact that the place is substandard. In fact that is looking quite likely given that these are on the market for so much that the only way to get a decent return is to rent them out at over the market rate.
Funnily enough a few of the people on that website who are criticising this development most are not actually punters in the market for a new house. They are landlords, they're not going to have to live here. But even they think these are substandard and overpriced.
Funnily enough a few of the people on that website who are criticising this development most are not actually punters in the market for a new house. They are landlords, they're not going to have to live here. But even they think these are substandard and overpriced.
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I don't think you can determine if they're substandard just yet. They're small yes but that doesn't make them substandard. They'll appeal to some people and the final finish might be very good.
The internal walls are solid which is unusual for more modern apartments as they're generally plasterboard walls with shockingly poor acoustics.
The internal walls are solid which is unusual for more modern apartments as they're generally plasterboard walls with shockingly poor acoustics.
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1,912 Posts
Substandard wasn't the best word to use, true. It is mostly a problem of square feet or lack of it. Though speaking for myself having experienced the best that 1950's municipal architecture can offer, I'd prefer it if the majority of flats were dual aspect. That's unlikely to happen in this country though.
I'm as socialist as they come so I do feel for the poor ratio of quality to price. Indeed as you say it is almost borderline evil the way homes are created with materials and decisions that make the lives of those within, at worst, miserable, and at best fraught with noisy neighbours or build quality issues to put a few grey hairs on your heard/chin; all while oodles of money gets siphoned away.
I think those flats look huge compared to one I lived in in Japan. I think you won't go full Jack Nicholson for living in them. The solid walls are a huge plus. It'll be interesting to see what the prices will be. They are rather high. The maintenance fee will be the proof in the pudding (one side effect of life away from English... I feck up sayings all the time.. think "is this right? Alcoves?"
)
We seem to know the appalling Obel, but nearby the St Anne's Square building seems very solid and sound; a few standard kitchen units notwithstanding.
And bizarre as it is to say this, I do hope these do 'well' because otherwise we'll NEVER see the LAnyon Plaza apartment cubes started let alone finished.
Council houses should never have been allowed to be sold off. There should have been a 1in, 1 out policy. Those homes, high quality or otherwise, got the bubble started. Instead they've been sold in the Right TO Buy... and then they're sold from under those 'empowered' owners to be demolished and turned into ridiculously £££ flats... Have a look/watch at this BBC film about it in London this year...
The Estate We're In (iPlayer)
(TL;DW - Guardinista article)
I think those flats look huge compared to one I lived in in Japan. I think you won't go full Jack Nicholson for living in them. The solid walls are a huge plus. It'll be interesting to see what the prices will be. They are rather high. The maintenance fee will be the proof in the pudding (one side effect of life away from English... I feck up sayings all the time.. think "is this right? Alcoves?"
)We seem to know the appalling Obel, but nearby the St Anne's Square building seems very solid and sound; a few standard kitchen units notwithstanding.
And bizarre as it is to say this, I do hope these do 'well' because otherwise we'll NEVER see the LAnyon Plaza apartment cubes started let alone finished.
Council houses should never have been allowed to be sold off. There should have been a 1in, 1 out policy. Those homes, high quality or otherwise, got the bubble started. Instead they've been sold in the Right TO Buy... and then they're sold from under those 'empowered' owners to be demolished and turned into ridiculously £££ flats... Have a look/watch at this BBC film about it in London this year...
The Estate We're In (iPlayer)
(TL;DW - Guardinista article)
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Additional photo from today, features on the skyline as you head down from Queens.
IMGP0087 by hypnotoad24, on Flickr
IMGP0087 by hypnotoad24, on Flickr
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I noticed they said the market has moved on "7 to 10%" in the last year.
Aside form teh inflation busting and Bubble-ish enormity of that, it gels with what I noitced recently when looking at house prices again after a year - houses that would have been 120 (125 at best) a year ago are now 140! As a house owner, er, brilliant I guess {said in Mr Burns voice} but very worrying I feel... especially with another stock market crash brewing
Aside form teh inflation busting and Bubble-ish enormity of that, it gels with what I noitced recently when looking at house prices again after a year - houses that would have been 120 (125 at best) a year ago are now 140! As a house owner, er, brilliant I guess {said in Mr Burns voice} but very worrying I feel... especially with another stock market crash brewing
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House price growth is good, when it's moderate. Our last bubble was unsustainable and property and land were grossly over-priced.
Sustainable house price recovery is good for the local economy as it pulls people out of negative equity and restores much needed consumer confidence.
Sustainable house price recovery is good for the local economy as it pulls people out of negative equity and restores much needed consumer confidence.
Not so much a bubble in NI, but economic growth particularly in England is entirely accounted for by credit expansion. Which is worrying to say the least.
Back to NI, while it is coming off from a low base there is no good reason for it to be growing as fast as that.
Back to NI, while it is coming off from a low base there is no good reason for it to be growing as fast as that.
Also as a data point, 2 years ago those same houses (or very similar ones) were also 120-125.
So there wasn't any growth really in 2014-2015, but it seems to have taken off this year.
-Quay Gate - 90/100k apartments are now 120 (and forgetting that if the masterplan goes well there'll be a apartment building in front of it robbing it of its cityscape views...)
I'd say for NI 10% is too high given most of us haven't had a similar increase in wages (and those with children have just lost a lot due to Governemnt working benefit cuts).
The estate agents are bloody smug about it all though I bet.
[Back on topic]
The apartments, despite their bemoaned sizes, sound quite 'futuristic' with their heating and ventilation systems which will help them feel better to live in. Should also avoid having a boiler stuffed unceremoniously into a storage space taking up space.
Also I kinda like the Tokyo-esque proportions. I survived (and didn't become totally unhinged) living in a very small aparto that was even smaller than these ones.
I wonder if they all have parking spaces?
So there wasn't any growth really in 2014-2015, but it seems to have taken off this year.
-Quay Gate - 90/100k apartments are now 120 (and forgetting that if the masterplan goes well there'll be a apartment building in front of it robbing it of its cityscape views...)
I'd say for NI 10% is too high given most of us haven't had a similar increase in wages (and those with children have just lost a lot due to Governemnt working benefit cuts).
The estate agents are bloody smug about it all though I bet.
[Back on topic]
The apartments, despite their bemoaned sizes, sound quite 'futuristic' with their heating and ventilation systems which will help them feel better to live in. Should also avoid having a boiler stuffed unceremoniously into a storage space taking up space.
Also I kinda like the Tokyo-esque proportions. I survived (and didn't become totally unhinged) living in a very small aparto that was even smaller than these ones.
I wonder if they all have parking spaces?
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Nope, more bike spaces, 60 with a dedicated bike lift, than car parking spaces. There's a few, most likely for maintenance and the retail unit manager.
If you buy an apartment you also get a voucher to buy a bike from Chain Reaction. there's also a ground floor storage area with secure lockers for residents to store things
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RE: the lack of car spaces. That would be the perfect incentive to have a car club for the flats and other housing nearby. I have a feeling the economics of these don't make them lucrative enough to tempt investors to set these up, I was a member of one but it went bust before I even had the chance to use it. But shave off the profit motive and they would probably be easy enough to deliver. For such a simple traffic reducing measure it's surprising no government agency has ever shown much interest. You would imagine the business case for a series of shared cars around, say, the new student flats to be built around York street would stack up very nicely.
The apostrophies around futuristic are appropriate, so called district heating had it's 'heyday' a few decades ago. I can think of a few examples round Belfast (Shankill, the Markets, Antrim town and a recent one in Lisburn) that were like all Northern Ireland examples eventually ripped out and replaced with oil/ gas etc. Reasonably common in Europe, the results in Britain were patchy- presumably they were all done on the cheap.
The apostrophies around futuristic are appropriate, so called district heating had it's 'heyday' a few decades ago. I can think of a few examples round Belfast (Shankill, the Markets, Antrim town and a recent one in Lisburn) that were like all Northern Ireland examples eventually ripped out and replaced with oil/ gas etc. Reasonably common in Europe, the results in Britain were patchy- presumably they were all done on the cheap.
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I wonder how the heating scheme in this building is powered- I've been reading about schemes such as these:
http://www.renewablesinternational.net/power-to-heat-gets-going-in-germany/150/537/88373/
... and it would be great if the heating in this building was based on a similar concept. Power to heat will be a major factor in the coming decades for transitioning to a low carbon economy. The underfloor heating used too is far more efficient than space heating, these apartments should be lovely to be in over the colder months,
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The Churchill Gardens estate in Westminster has a (I guess) 1950's water tower to store waste water from Battersea Power Station. When the power station closed they set up a boiler room which I think is the small building at the base of this glass chimney.
off 28 Days Later http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/pimlico-district-heating-undertaking-london-sep-2011.t65604
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The boiler room is gas powered and serves 1600 mainly two bedroomed flats in the area which is roughly double the size of Belfast City Hall and it's grounds. Even though it is just gas powered the efficiency of having one well looked after boiler vs 1600 individual cheap ones is enough to make the heating bills in this area cheaper than normal.
off 28 Days Later http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/pimlico-district-heating-undertaking-london-sep-2011.t65604
The boiler room is gas powered and serves 1600 mainly two bedroomed flats in the area which is roughly double the size of Belfast City Hall and it's grounds. Even though it is just gas powered the efficiency of having one well looked after boiler vs 1600 individual cheap ones is enough to make the heating bills in this area cheaper than normal.
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