Do they even have permission to do this? I saw an app for hoardings but nothing else...
BELFAST | Northside | 140 Donegall Street - U/C
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Didn't BCC say they would not approve anymore car park applications a couple of years ago? I know they have forced some developers to close unlicensed car parks, which makes me think the developers open them until they are told to close them by a soft touch BCC. Better to ask for forgiveness than permission and all that.
They've said a lot of things and their actions have spoken much louder than words...
Given its location, clearly they're turning a blind eye because someone from the 'community' is making some kind of behind closed doors deal or threat, hence why they've literally been allowed to do whatever the heck they wanted. Blow away the conservation buildings over several days? Sure! We won't step in! Go against city planning and vision? Cool!
Dodginess all round
Given its location, clearly they're turning a blind eye because someone from the 'community' is making some kind of behind closed doors deal or threat, hence why they've literally been allowed to do whatever the heck they wanted. Blow away the conservation buildings over several days? Sure! We won't step in! Go against city planning and vision? Cool!
Dodginess all round
A venue like the Everyman in Liverpool would be absolutely savage on Union St, Library St or even North St *wink wink Castlebrooke*. The seating is all temporary, so can be removed for hosting concerts, ticketed club nights, comedy shows, functions, whatever really. Could replace The Telegraph Buildings and The Mandela Hall... all right beside the University and the Cathedral Quarter.
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Won the Stirling prize a few years back.
Won the Stirling prize a few years back.
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I have walked past that building a few times, never realised how much the top looks like the funnels on the Titanic.
Maybe it should have been built in Belfast
Maybe it should have been built in Belfast
Yeah that'd be a great idea - Not against bulding offices, just losing current options for citizens having fun. If they made a custom one, maybe stealing those funnel ideas, it'd be very popular, maybe a good lynchpin for this v2 idea for the area of slowly growing it out as needs be - clearly without the Print Hall there needs to be an alternative venue, or else the buzz and reason for bringing people right smack bang in the middle of the otherwise out the way, and remember before it was quiet as all hell, Union St/Bear & Doll area.
Definitely need another venue, to replace The Telegraph Building and the Mandela Hall. Something with world class acoustics and a world class sound system. Flexible capacity up to about 2,000 all standing. Would be savage in Union St. A real draw for electronic music lovers from all over Ireland.
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Image from https://www.archdaily.com
Image from https://www.archdaily.com
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Just to note that a new Mandela Hall will be part of the QUB SU redevelopment.
UU missed out on a trick developing a purpose-build student's union facility for the expanded campus which should have incorporated a music venue. Still no idea why they aren't building one.
UU missed out on a trick developing a purpose-build student's union facility for the expanded campus which should have incorporated a music venue. Still no idea why they aren't building one.
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Yep, as has been said on here, the telegraph complex would have been perfect for them. Oh well.
Missed their chance. At least there's an abundance of surface car parks around Union and Library St for them to build something really cool on. Perhaps they could work with Shine, The Art Department, S13 and loads of others to bring something really epic to the city...
Yep, at the Open Day for the Print Hall it was the first thought on my mind walking into the cavernous space.
What's *really* sad is that was the only such space in the city centre. And even at Odyssey or whatnot there's the stadium seating. That put you smack dab in the middle of the 'action' and felt like walking into the NASA Space Shuttle buildings or something.
The "sick of seeing this happen again and again" part of me loses patience with the weak 'throw up hands' reaction to something like that happening. It *never* ends. And for some reason has accelerated to the point where we've got Sixth and Bankmore doing what they're doing and no one seems to have the will to stop it. Very sad.
So yeah, that's a little astonishing to see your comment Bug - it's like "I wonder where they could put one..." in front of a massive flashing sign saying "This was perfect" :lol:
What's *really* sad is that was the only such space in the city centre. And even at Odyssey or whatnot there's the stadium seating. That put you smack dab in the middle of the 'action' and felt like walking into the NASA Space Shuttle buildings or something.
The "sick of seeing this happen again and again" part of me loses patience with the weak 'throw up hands' reaction to something like that happening. It *never* ends. And for some reason has accelerated to the point where we've got Sixth and Bankmore doing what they're doing and no one seems to have the will to stop it. Very sad.
So yeah, that's a little astonishing to see your comment Bug - it's like "I wonder where they could put one..." in front of a massive flashing sign saying "This was perfect" :lol:
Only been once but I love the place, favourite venue in Belfast.
The atmosphere sort of reminds me of The Brixton Academy - gritty, hot, sweaty, urban with all sorts of people from smicks in tracksuits to middle aged - middle class hipsters. Anything goes. No place like it in Belfast, maybe even Ireland? Refreshing change from all the wine bars, trad bars and roof top posers. Big loss for the city.
The atmosphere sort of reminds me of The Brixton Academy - gritty, hot, sweaty, urban with all sorts of people from smicks in tracksuits to middle aged - middle class hipsters. Anything goes. No place like it in Belfast, maybe even Ireland? Refreshing change from all the wine bars, trad bars and roof top posers. Big loss for the city.
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It feels like people here are losing patience and hope with every one of these new developments. Even in Belfast we love a "Save the (insert loved building)" campaign and I haven't even seen anything for the Telegraph Building, and it's frequented by thousands of music lovers who adore it as venue. Whether that is just not being aware or complete apathy I do not know.
I actually like the second proposal for 'The Sixth' but why does it have to be here? Until the Government/Council start a scheme to protect/develop and re-inhabit old buildings and warehouses this will just be an endless loop of destruction on our last unique spaces.
There are a few developments in Belfast to be excited about but at the moment it does feel like a case of just "build it and they will come" while completely ignoring the cultural and social aspects it will have on the city.
I actually like the second proposal for 'The Sixth' but why does it have to be here? Until the Government/Council start a scheme to protect/develop and re-inhabit old buildings and warehouses this will just be an endless loop of destruction on our last unique spaces.
There are a few developments in Belfast to be excited about but at the moment it does feel like a case of just "build it and they will come" while completely ignoring the cultural and social aspects it will have on the city.
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You're sort of missing the point though. The current print hall was never intended to be a permanent venue. It suited the new owner to have something there temporarily while they planned their new building and get some income.So yeah, that's a little astonishing to see your comment Bug - it's like "I wonder where they could put one..." in front of a massive flashing sign saying "This was perfect" :lol:
At the end of the day if the owner of the building doesn't want to open the print hall to events they there's nothing in law to compel them to do so. They could demolish the paint hall tomorrow without planning permission as it's not a listed or protected structure. I wouldn't put that past them either....
So if you're idea is to have BCC planners 'somehow' force the owner to maintain an events space then they can simply turn round and say no and close the entire site and there's nothing planning or anyone else for that matter can do about it. It's like the planners coming to you and demanding you open your house to the public and host events. They can't....
Developers aren't social engineers, they exist to make money, if they saw an economic return in building an events space then surely they would have considered that?
The fact they haven't and the fact that most other event spaces in the city are subsidised with public funds to varying degrees demonstrates there isn't an economic case in the mind of the developer to provide such a venue as it would be loss making.
The best hope for a new events space in that part of the city is as part of BCC's own development plans for the sites around the Bank of Ireland building. That should the be focus of any lobbying efforts as at least BCC are in a position to justify such a facility and more inclined to support it financially. Whether they do consider it is another matter, particularly when they have to look at how many other venues they operate or support.
What people's suggestions in regard to this? I'd like to hear some realistic ideas as to how the Print Hall can be saved.
Bug. I asked you earlier this week thus very question.
Given you have knowledge and contacts with friends and people who are involved with planning, I'd have hoped you could imagine something and given a fuller response.
If your answer is throw hands up then that's just not right. It couldn't be. They don't magically get to plonk anything they a want in a city. No one does. If there was a strong will in whatever levels of planning and approval it would take to steer development and more importantly stand up to these entitled developments then I'm sure it wouldn't pass.
If not then the state of the city centre and knock on effects are totally down to the planners anr council and running and campaigns to get people back into the centre are hilarious hypocrisy.
Given you have knowledge and contacts with friends and people who are involved with planning, I'd have hoped you could imagine something and given a fuller response.
If your answer is throw hands up then that's just not right. It couldn't be. They don't magically get to plonk anything they a want in a city. No one does. If there was a strong will in whatever levels of planning and approval it would take to steer development and more importantly stand up to these entitled developments then I'm sure it wouldn't pass.
If not then the state of the city centre and knock on effects are totally down to the planners anr council and running and campaigns to get people back into the centre are hilarious hypocrisy.
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I don’t have any friends or contacts that work in planning...
I know the law and there’s nothing in it that compels a developer to do anything aside from any zoning or development plan. I don’t think entertainment venues are specifically allocated to any one site or area in the city.
A planner has no legal protection to turn round to a developer and refuse permission for their office or apartment block because they think they should build something else. The developer would just take the case to the Planning Appeals Committee which is judge led. If a building is proposed on a site that has no specified zoning then the planners can only consider the application based on established operating policy
I know the law and there’s nothing in it that compels a developer to do anything aside from any zoning or development plan. I don’t think entertainment venues are specifically allocated to any one site or area in the city.
A planner has no legal protection to turn round to a developer and refuse permission for their office or apartment block because they think they should build something else. The developer would just take the case to the Planning Appeals Committee which is judge led. If a building is proposed on a site that has no specified zoning then the planners can only consider the application based on established operating policy
This is where I also asked a while ago for your thoughts and knowledge, insider or otherwise, of the planning document and new planning directive for Belfast.
To recap: A friend said that there's a desperately out of date planning document out there that is still used for Belfast planning. It's the reason for things like zoning some areas exclusively for say offices when an apartment could go there, or vice versa.
I'd assumed you had heard because there was a comment where you referenced that one plot of land was zoned as business so no apartments could be built there.
Have you ever heard anything related to that?
To recap: A friend said that there's a desperately out of date planning document out there that is still used for Belfast planning. It's the reason for things like zoning some areas exclusively for say offices when an apartment could go there, or vice versa.
I'd assumed you had heard because there was a comment where you referenced that one plot of land was zoned as business so no apartments could be built there.
Have you ever heard anything related to that?
PS
I recognise the surface facts of, yes, not being able to compel an owner to do something. But what about encouraging or 'sweetening the deal'?
I just can't see why the city has no say - really by that reading it has absolutely no say - in what gets put up then.
How about this though - We've seen concerted efforts to get things done recently between government agency and private owners with the arrangements in TQ for the Glider that ultimately benefited everyone.
Then again it seems the only thing it has bl***y power over is some white lanes and the letters "BUS LANE". If there's nothing they can do at all then that's just embarassing for the city planners. And surely their department title is erroneous then - they're being dictated to, not planning anything! Apart from what the pavement looks like.:lol:
That planning doc consultation becomes even more important - we need it to deliver something with teeth. Something that supersedes the greedy land banking, or ansty landlords wanting to turn a profit, that can remove your city's amenities at the stroke of a pen.
On the bright side, once Movie House and Print Hall venue are gone there's... really nothing left! Phew!! I can stop worrying!!! :lol: hno:
I recognise the surface facts of, yes, not being able to compel an owner to do something. But what about encouraging or 'sweetening the deal'?
I just can't see why the city has no say - really by that reading it has absolutely no say - in what gets put up then.
How about this though - We've seen concerted efforts to get things done recently between government agency and private owners with the arrangements in TQ for the Glider that ultimately benefited everyone.
Then again it seems the only thing it has bl***y power over is some white lanes and the letters "BUS LANE". If there's nothing they can do at all then that's just embarassing for the city planners. And surely their department title is erroneous then - they're being dictated to, not planning anything! Apart from what the pavement looks like.:lol:
That planning doc consultation becomes even more important - we need it to deliver something with teeth. Something that supersedes the greedy land banking, or ansty landlords wanting to turn a profit, that can remove your city's amenities at the stroke of a pen.
On the bright side, once Movie House and Print Hall venue are gone there's... really nothing left! Phew!! I can stop worrying!!! :lol:
hno:P.S. Joey, you definitely need to get your mates posting on SSC. I might not agree with everything you say (regarding cars, roads and the Movie House), but i love the discourse and great to see so many active threads. I suspect this forum is alot more active now than the Southern forum which is great to see.
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