BELFAST | Royal Exchange Tower | Residential/Hotel | 26 flrs / 91m | Proposed

If built, would be the tallest in Ireland, which is crazy, considering its location. Can someone shift it to alongside the Obel or to City Quays, thanks!

plank007 said:

If built, would be the tallest in Ireland, which is crazy, considering its location. Can someone shift it alongside the Obel or to City Quays or the Waterfront, thanks!

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I'm half-minded to email them to ask they consider pushing it to 100m :lol:

It won't be that far from Obel and City Quays when viewed from a distance and will help establish a high-rise skyline in the area (especially if Academy Street tower goes ahead, too.) I'm sure they could stretch to 100m! lol

I really like this tower! I quite like the old buildings to the left of picture 3 too. I think if they polished them up and got some better shops there it'd make a really nice area!

I don't know what it is about 'establishing a skyline' that brings out this giddy applause.

Most major cities concentrate their taller buildings for good reason. It looks, for want of a better word, ugly when done scattershot across the city.

And it seems to have no real reason for that to be somewhere to plonk this kind of effort.

It's about as exciting from a city skyline view as those random high rise residential towers that dot the north of the city! By your logic they're proud and vital additions to the skyline because of their utterly random location.

Or in other words: height for height's sake isn't laudatory

WiseJoeyD said:

Most major cities concentrate their taller buildings for good reason. It looks, for want of a better word, ugly when done scattershot across the city.

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That might have more merit as an argument if Belfast hadn't already missed that boat. We have higher-rise already scattered across the city (city hospital, MBC, Ashby, New Lodge, Divis, Windsor, RVH Critical care, River House, Obel, BT, Hilton).

Additionally, Belfast is a very compact city and unlike some larger cities didn't have the benefit or capacity to designate a dedicated area for higher rise. The city centre itself is actually dense with most buildings between 30-50m. I doubt Belfast's economy could support a dedicated higher-rise 'area' given the size of both the economy and the city itself.

If I had my way then we'd move all the proposed towers to Corporation St (or thereabouts) and the council would say nothing under 70 metres is permitted in the red area....



Would look amazing, a high rise CBD with the elevated motorway slicing through it and the river. Add a railway halt so people could flow in and out and on a Friday evening thousands of office workers would hit the historic (and protected) CQ for drinks and food.

Not sure there'll ever be enough to group together as BUG said, but yes, certainly an expectation and common sense to gravitate naturally to a part of the city.

Random skyscrapers popping up may satisfy one's skyscraper fetish (and this is after all by name a fetish website of sorts!) but it doens't make sense and strikes me as just off somehow. Also again ask normal folks who don't obsess over this where they'd put it and not a single person would say "oh aye, opposite Northern Whig and by TK Maxx would be PERFECT!" . (If they are then you're probably not talking to 'normal' people :lol

plank007 said:

If I had my way then we'd move all the proposed towers to Corporation St (or thereabouts) and the council would say nothing under 70 metres is permitted in the red area....

Would look amazing, a high rise CBD with the elevated motorway slicing through it and the river. Add a railway halt so people could flow in and out and on a Friday evening thousands of office workers would hit the historic (and protected) CQ for drinks and food.

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There's a balance to be had though. What happens to the traditional city centre and business area if you move the new offices out? There are a lot businesses that depend on that flow of office workers for their daily trade. Retail has also benefited.

Move a large portion of them to that area then parts of the city centre could start to decline again and vacancy increase, something that has been declining for the past few years to record lows.

I think the mixed-use approach is a better way forward for the city personally. There's a lot of organic growth happening across the city in regard to development and that seems to have spread across the city centre which is more positive in my view than confining it all to one area.

I remember when the city centre was basically just Churchill House, Windsor House, Divis tower and City hospital - now that was spread out!

Anyway, I don't think there's any advantage from concentrating high-rises around the river or another specific part of the city given that the centre is so compact. In fact, as far as skylines go, it'd make more sense to start filling in the gaps between the likes of Windsor House and City Hospital and Windsor House/the Lagan area. Over time this would create a more complete skyline for Belfast rather than having one cluster around the river, for example.

Personally I'd rather we had a concentrated skyline. A 90m tower next to a 5 storey Art Deco or Victorian building just looks plain wrong, IMO. Nevermind a 90m tower right on the boundary of a conservation area.
I'd rather we had a dense, intimate but low rise (6-10 storey) city core and then a concentrated CBD with 70m+ commercial towers. Just like what every other European city does.
This proposed tower is quite nice, but it's going to look completely ridiculous where it is.
I'm sorry to say this, but I hope it's refused..

I agree Johnny,
Howard Street, and May Street down the back of city hall already has that lineage with BT Tower and Hilton at one end, and Grand Central now off it 2/3 the way down. It also has telephone exchange too. It's a sort of urban canyon as it is so high buildings along it would continue that business vibe and feel.

Aye, fill in the gaps with towers he said. Aye, all the way from the City Hospital to Queens Island he said. Aye, it'll look good on a postcard he said...



F**k me :lol:

It's not likely any time soon - we only get a handful of tall buildings in a decade (Obel is now getting on 10 years?) so at that rate it'd take 60 years for every block between Howard St and May St to gain a tall building. Or 100+ to do a Belfast version of NY 5th Avenue between Shaftsbury and city hall :lol: So honestly it doesn't quite matter, but *because* there is this slow pace, it means placing it should be well thought out and have a reason other than pin, blindfold, and a prayer

To me I'd have more faith in everyone's intentions if someone even once mentioned where they *didn't* want a skyscraper. Because that would present a healthy realism and balance to the debate and show at least some sensible common ground. Sadly no, Belfast wouldn't look 'grand' with a skyscraper plonked wherever - unless it's some utterly amazing design

WiseJoeyD said:

To me I'd have more faith in everyone's intentions if someone even once mentioned where they *didn't* want a skyscraper. Because that would present a healthy realism and balance to the debate and show at least some sensible common ground. Sadly no, Belfast wouldn't look 'grand' with a skyscraper plonked wherever - unless it's some utterly amazing design

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Have you ever asked such a question? Might be good to ask before assuming the worst

For the record and just to answer the question. I don't think throwing up 'skyscrapers' anywhere in the city is a good thing and I do think there are areas they should be refused.

Belfast city centre is a compact and dense core with most buildings around 30-50m, that's relatively dense for a small city. Additionally, 60-90m are pretty common in other cities and I wouldn't really class them as 'skyscrapers', it's actually a pretty reserved height considering and anything 70m+ in Belfast is uncommon.

Personally I'd like to most of the core stick to a max height of around 50-60m with some sites selected for taller elements. The immediate area around City Hall, Donegall Place, Royal Avenue and the Wellington Place / Chichester Street to Waterfront Hall axis should stick to around 50m. The Linen Quarter already has some taller buildings on Bedford Street but I'd confine them to there for this part of the centre as a cluster already exists and the boat has sailed in that regard unless they're demolished which is unlikely.

My primary focus is on restoring density and filling in the gap sites, most of those could easily take buildings up to 50m.

I don't have an issue with this tower or site as it fits well within the scheme and, IMO, adds to the streetscape and urban environment, particularly if it's finished to as high a quality as they intend.

plank007 said:

Aye, fill in the gaps with towers he said. Aye, all the way from the City Hospital to Queens Island he said. Aye, it'll look good on a postcard he said...

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The possibility of anything even remotely similar to that occurring in Belfast is a nonsense and you know full well it is. Taller buildings in Belfast are not common and they're aren't proposed that often so let's have some realism here and drop the hyperbole.

The problem with the tower is that it massively changes (and affects) the setting of multiple listed buildings contained within the site. Whether that's a positive or negative change is obviously for the planners to decide and not SSC members based only on pretty promotional renders. Thank god.

Wish and hope someone like Rebekah McCabe (can I mention her without being deleted?) would come on here and discuss it with people. Her insight is absolutely brilliant.

I can get behind the areas mentioned and it represents an organic growth of the already rather tall buildings there (skyscraper is indeed pushing it, only Obel and Windsor*House had that prestige).

With that in mind, and it lines up with my feelings on the best bits of Belfast for tall buildings, it is odd the choice for this tower.

What's interesting as we look at these plans and possibilities is that there is the beginnings of tightening up on planning rules and how materials and cladding are specified in the designs and documents.

It's a long way off coming into force, but the current system is noted as being "unfit for purpose". We've had the rug pulled from under us a few times this year so we definitely know what can happen if it does lack oversight and teeth. The materials planned for the Donegal St** elevations look very interesting and good, for instance. If it stays that way it's one (of a few) aspects I really like.

Again I'm wary of what 2018 will bring with regards Approvals, and finally moving on certain parts of this (wouldn't be surprised to see the Phases shifted around), so am still enjoying the tail end of 2017 where there's still a chance for some last minute changes to these, maybe even canning some and amending others to make it absolutely perfect.


*#neverforget

**I always have to google this street name, I've successfully forgotten its name at least a dozen times

Plank - that's a bit of an exaggeration to what I had mind! lol I'm talking about one or two towers in those areas, with varying heights. Belfast is hardly going to become a highrise jungle in our lifetime, even if there was a sudden population influx or construction boom. We have the opportunity/space to build a decent and attractive city skyline.