[festivephone]

Not good news:badnews: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=a5y4F7_e.jPQ&refer=europe

 

[al73]

Nothing we didn't know already.

We've come through many recessions, depressions, troubles, wars in the past. It'll bounce back in a few years, even bigger & better than before. It's the way things have always been.

Imagine if all those extensive 60's plans for Belfast had actually been realised. The city would be much worse IMO. Maybe it's all for the best.

 

[PB-1888]

The whole world's building/construction projects are in the same sinking boat and the Titanic quarter is no different (what a pun, sorry).

When we get through this, which we will, it is important that the city is well placed to hit the ground running.

I would hope infrastructure projects like the York street interchange to connect the westlink with the M2/3 gets fast tracked. (10 years, is that a joke?) and the UofU gets going to beef up the Belfast campus, thus ensuring a large, vibrant and dynamic student population. And of course, each individual takes opportunities to invest in their own skill set. That way when growth returns and people are looking where to invest, Belfast will be seen as the place to be.

 

[SLMCC Belfast]

I alctually see this is good, it's not great news ofcourse, but aleast it shows that we are starting to buy into diversification. NI is a place where big projcts can fail and they are allowed to do so because they were too adventurous to begin with (as far as we see) but this shows signs of a new attitude taking hold where people just look at different avenues for a brighter future. If alternatives put Belfast on the map and bring wealth to our city then I am all for it. Belfast must be alright when Citibank are expanding here and shrinking everywhere else....

 

[odlum833]

I alctually see this is good, it's not great news ofcourse, but aleast it shows that we are starting to buy into diversification. NI is a place where big projcts can fail and they are allowed to do so because they were too adventurous to begin with (as far as we see) but this shows signs of a new attitude taking hold where people just look at different avenues for a brighter future. If alternatives put Belfast on the map and bring wealth to our city then I am all for it. Belfast must be alright when Citibank are expanding here and shrinking everywhere else....

This whole project is reliant on firms in the IFSC in Dublin. Citibank is one of few that will expand but the others are questionable. Some have already laid off workers in the IFSC. I think this needs time. The IFSC will have to regain reputation then the spin off's will come. But as of now I would find it incredible if most IFSC firms expanded anywhere. They are downsizing. These guys are being severely hit. Most are not in the mood for expansion. But when the upturn comes so to will the benifits.

I would question the wisdom of not going it alone yourselves. What will happen when Citibank needs redundancies? - they won't look first in Dublin...

 

[Uchimata]

What will happen when Citibank needs redundancies? - they won't look first in Dublin...

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/citigroup-tells-workers-to-expect-redundancies-1628274.html

 

[SLMCC Belfast]

Citibank have been in Belfast for a good few years now, long before the announcments regarding IFSC. They came here at the same time as Microsoft to the NI Science Park.

 

[odlum833]

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/citigroup-tells-workers-to-expect-redundancies-1628274.html

I would. It's after the event im thinking about. The deal is that only "back office" activities would open in Belfast. They can then avail of the cheaper tax regime. The jobs in TQ have not been created yet. I hope it is successful, im sure it will be but I cannot understand why they did not just select the area and give it much lower taxes on financial companies!? Instead it comes with strings attached. Maybe they could'nt but that is what should have happened IMO. We have alot of "back offices" down here aswell for the likes of New York and London -- not worth a dime in terms of reputation enhancement and the finance industry. So your not alone.

In fact I would recommend not going near finance at all....the article above has hit the spot i.e medical device companies and the like.....the next big thing.

 

[PB-1888]

The problem (and solution) applies equally to Belfast and Dublin. American multinationals locate to wherever the skills and the tax incentives are, and will move out as equally as they move in if a better deal is somewhere else.

Now of course foreign inward investment is to be encouraged but I would like to see more emphasis on home grown start ups. I don't want the economy of Belfast to be reliant on the crumbs from bigger cities, whether that be Dublin or New York. Otherwise we find ourselves no better than economies that compete for sweat shop work, with investment depending purely on a cheap work force and various government incentives.

 

[odlum833]

You do have competitive advantages:

Cheaper Workforce
Cheaper Services
Good Infrastructure (apportioned to size of course)
Good Education System
Sterling collapse is good for exports

If i have have left something out please add to it.

Add a favourable tax regime onto that and your laughing.

:cheers:

 

[festivephone]

My fear is that the signature project will go ahead and be way in front of the rest of its surroundings. It may be surrounded by a huge building site when it opens in 2012.

 

[PB-1888]

I'm swaying a bit from the topic of this thread, but my point Odlum is that arguing on the basis of a cheaper workforce is sweatshop economics (for want of a better phrase). We compete therefore by undercutting someone else.

I want to see Belfast being at the forefront of wealth generation through high value jobs created at source. That will require individual entrepreneurialism, risk taking and investment in our universities.

 

[belfastuniguy]

I would. It's after the event im thinking about. The deal is that only "back office" activities would open in Belfast.

Hardly..

The Belfast base is the European Software and technology development HQ.....so hardly back office. I also think the IFSC is about to be hit hard, I wouldn't be so smug about its position for the next few years. Nor for Ireland in general, you are one of the country's that suffer greatly from a recession, you already have spiralling public debt that unlike places like the UK does not have sufficient or advantageous interest rate agreements to bring it under control. Some Irish banks have been rather foolish over the past decade in addition to a rather crap outlook in your retail sector. So really you have no reason to employ your typical Southern Irish superiority complex on this issue.


As for the actual story, hardly surprising. Banks that are losing billions upon billions don't exactly have thoughts of expansion and more job creation at the forefront of their mind. The area will be developed and in the longer term it will be successful, that I have no doubt about. However it's best such things are put on ice for the minute until we have a greater vision of how exactly the next few years will pan out.

 

[PB-1888]

Now lets not fight.

The point here is that both Dublin and Belfast are at the mercy of the whims of foreign multinationals. As the example of Iceland shows diversification is essential for survival, let alone prosperity.

In the end TQ will do alright. It has the accolade of Europe's largest waterfront development with a name that has instant world-wide brand recognition. It will be successful with or without input from the IFSC.

 

[blandy]

If this means the sig project is actually visible from more than 40 ft and not surrounded by cornflakes boxes then it might be no bad thing.
Comparisons are always made with the sydney opera house - you dont see the aussies biulding tower blocks right round it.

 

[PJRODP]

Found the two additional renders

The new Public Record Office of Northern Ireland

The new Belfast Metropolitan College campus

Have these developments not started yet? I was under the impression that they would be up in running by the end of 2010 - Now with the Gateway office cranes removed, we should be seeing more movement on the other sites - dont want construction works to stop after ARC finished, need to keep up the momentum.

 

[belfastuniguy]

Have these developments not started yet? I was under the impression that they would be up in running by the end of 2010 - Now with the Gateway office cranes removed, we should be seeing more movement on the other sites - dont want construction works to stop after ARC finished, need to keep up the momentum.

I believe they have started or at least have been approved and site works started. I haven't been at the site in a very long time, so maybe someone with more info could update us?

 

[festivephone]

They have started on what im pretty sure is the public records office behind the gateway offices. Its been underway for a couple of months now.

 

[odlum833]

Hardly..

The Belfast base is the European Software and technology development HQ.....so hardly back office. I also think the IFSC is about to be hit hard, I wouldn't be so smug about its position for the next few years. Nor for Ireland in general, you are one of the country's that suffer greatly from a recession, you already have spiralling public debt that unlike places like the UK does not have sufficient or advantageous interest rate agreements to bring it under control.

The UK's national debt is much higher then ours atm and is ballooning. Do I really have to bring up the relevant figures? You know yourself. It would be very non senseical to get into a debate over who's economy is worse. Also the IFSC is a big place. It has, and will always have, it's up's and down's. But then again at least we have it on this Island and the benefits rub off on you. Perhaps a "thank you" might not go a miss because the IFSC is what will make TQ successful, if it is to be, in financial services. I think it was nice of the government to do what it did in allowing expansion in Belfast. Would London ever do that for Dublin do you think!?

And before you go talking about superiority complexes and all the rest perhaps you should read entire posts instead of just one line!...I think I made it pretty clear that alot of stuff down here in Dublin and other places are glorified back offices with fancy titles. Unless only two words, and no more, are in the title - "European Headquarters" - or "Global Headquarters" then it is back office stuff. Im supprised you would even attempt to dispute that.

A good job is a good job....but there are delusions of grandeur in alot of titles.

My point, and is it not a valid one!?, is that Belfast should maybe avoid financial services (not completely of course). It's saturated in these islands. Concentrate on something else. I think it is a valid point and I have been arguing for that here aswell. Financial Services are passe.

 

[Boba Fett22]

Perhaps a "thank you" might not go a miss because the IFSC is what will make TQ successful, if it is to be, in financial services.

Y'know I've never pretended to be a person who fully knows about economics. And I have no idea why the IFSC located in Belfast.

However, and I'm not picking a fight, I think I read somewhere that the IFSC set up here to take advantage of the talent in the field up here....I THINK.

Was the IFSC's decision to locate here entirely out of benevolent reasons? or was part of the reason they came here was because they thought they might have gotten a better deal here or because of the talent up here? Maybe it was benevolent?

Is it completely far-fetched for me to think that the IFSC located here at least partially because they might have gotten a better deal here or whatever?

Is it far-fetched to think that if any company comes here that it is at least partially down to that reason.

I find it difficult to believe that if a company goes anywhere that is entirely down to benevolent reasons.

I'm not saying your saying this, but it just seems to me that when a company goes to other places (in the eyes of people not from here) they are doing it because it is in their interests, that they would make more money. But when they come here it is ALWAYS because they pity us.