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What was this outline planning for? Hadn't this already got outline planning? The whole area is becoming a right shithole, decaying buildings, untreated growth on pavements, druggies shooting up in the street. Make a decision on something for goodness sake.
 

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The 2012 proposal looks more suited to the area. The current proposal looks brutal. Adding retail and office space to a city that already has lots of vacancy does not prepare us for a post COVID world. My fear is that short term job prospects will push this over the line.
 

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I have no words. For a city in desperate need of regeneration and investment this decision is astounding. Fortunately, the marxist views of Save CQ carry no weight in terms of planning policy and the proposal will be accepted once again.
 

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I have no words. For a city in desperate need of regeneration and investment this decision is astounding. Fortunately, the marxist views of Save CQ carry no weight in terms of planning policy and the proposal will be accepted once again.

Every now and then I log into this thread to reply to a message about some communist conspiracy to thwart this development. I would love to know where the idea of this neo-marxist conspiracy came from. It's insane. Anyway, here's me quoting my own message from this same thread a few months ago, in response to someone else who thought SaveCQ were the reincarnation of Trotsky:

I think you'll find it was two decades worth of land-banking by the previous owners that held this up for so long. Lefties and moaners had nothing to do with it.

The current owners/developers proposed a load of tosh that was based on 1990s era big-box retail, a model that is clearly in it's death throes. Some well organised community groups forced the developers to change the plans, and we now have a much better proposal as a direct result of that. Again, lefties and moaning didn't come in it.
The only big change that's happened since I posted that message in January this is that Covid19 has definitively killed off the idea that the Castlebrook proposal for CQ is in any way viable. Sure, city council could force through the planning application, and guess what? If it gets built (and that's a massive if right now) it'll almost certainly fail to attract they type of business and resident that it needs to make a profit. That type of business model is dead. I know this because I happen to work on financing major city developments, albeit not in Belfast.

So please, less of this "wah wah SaveCQ are commies" nonsense.
 

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Pressure has made a much better scheme. Inclusion of social housing will I'm sure make it better - and maybe financially viable.

But its missed this round of development in Belfast. Hopefully it catches the next one. We really need that area as residential.

Although i did particularly like the Green councillor's concern about a lack (?) of car parking. Maybe i picked him up wrong. But i thought that would be a positive.
 

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Discussion Starter #177 (Edited)
According to the planning committee minutes from January this year, outline planning permission for the remainder of the scheme was approved.

So why it's in or outline planning permission 6 months later is baffling.

As Conor says, a clusterfuck.
Outline planning permission was granted but outline permission merely establishes the principle of a development. It's why large masterplans like this and City Quays will always apply for outline planning permission first.

Once approved, a more detailed application is submitted and in some cases larger masterplans are phased with full planning permission submitted for separate elements.

Phases 1a and 1b have already been approved with full permission by Belfast City Council.

The application that was deferred relates to changes they made to the outline permission focusing on the reduced height of the Rosemary Street tower and the block sandwiched between North Street and Donegall Street.
 

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It is disturbing how filthy and grubby this place has become and the lack of economic activity is extremely troubling but not surprising given the obvious inability of the city to attract foreign investment and the deferral of the Tribeca scheme makes clear that Belfast is closed for business. The vocal cheerleaders of SaveCQ and those on the hard left claim that these decisions should be celebrated, but beyond their reality bubble, most people in Belfast want economic stability and growth, and if that means demolishing a few abandoned buildings to generate thousands of new jobs, then that is how it should be.
 

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Outline planning permission was granted but outline permission merely establishes the principle of a development. It's why large masterplans like this and City Quays will always apply for outline planning permission first.

Once approved, a more detailed application is submitted and in some cases larger masterplans are phased with full planning permission submitted for separate elements.

Phases 1a and 1b have already been approved with full permission by Belfast City Council.

The application that was deferred relates to changes they made to the outline permission focusing on the reduced height of the Rosemary Street tower and the block sandwiched between North Street and Donegall Street.
Would the outline planning permission received in January not already account for the reduced height of the tower? I cannot see any further changes to the scheme since January on the planning portal.

It's hard to care anymore anyway, this whole saga is beyond a farce now. Endless consultations, endless objections and endless dithering on making decisions from our council.

All we can hope is that the Garfield Buildings are completed before they fall over.
 

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It seems to be the same with so many planned developments over the decades in this city. The sheer number of proposals that take eons to get off the ground, or have been sold off, compromised, passed around or just abandoned is really disheartening, especially when you follow what's being knocked up in so many other cities across the UK and ROI.

I feel like one positive exception to this has been City Quays. It's really refreshing to see an ambitious masterplan of such high quality in this city actually followed through with and executed rapidly. I look forward to the continued progress down at the harbour.
 
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