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MORI
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8,646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Starting this thread as i feel its a major block of the city that deserves its own. :)

Item 2B (22 pages)


APPLICATION 09/00852/DC

DATE VALID 07.04.2009

SITE ADDRESS

185-217 Buchanan Street/104-126 West Nile Street/ 17 Bath Street Glasgow

PROPOSAL
Demolition of existing buildings and retention of listed facade in association with
redevelopment of site for mixed retail/office/residential development - amendment to
consent 03/03145/DC to extend permission for a further five years.

APPLICANT
Atlas Investments Ltd
167 Bath
Street Glasgow
G2 4SQ

AGENT
ADF Architecture And Design
Cumbrae House
15 Carlton Court
GLASGOW
G5 9JP

SITE AND DESCRIPTION

The site comprises the northern half of a street block bounded by Buchanan Street, Bath Street and West Nile
Street and includes properties at 185-217 Buchanan Street, 100-126 West Nile Street and 17/19 Bath Street. It
excludes land formerly occupied by 3-7 Bath Street/221 Buchanan Street and Albert Chambers at
11-15 Bath Street. Property to the south of the street block incorporating The Old Athenaeum is also excluded
The entire site is located within the Central Conservation Area and three of the properties in the original submission
were listed buildings. These are number 106 West Nile Street - Category B; numbers 108-110 West Nile Street -
Category C and numbers 120-126 West Nile Street - Category C. Subsequently the listed buildings at 108-110 and
120-126 West Nile Street have been demolished because of structural damage following a fire (references
05/00213/DC and 05/00316/DC). The Old Athenaeum to the south of the Buchanan Hotel is a Category A listed
building. There are several other listed buildings in close proximity to the site. The original proposal approved the
demolition of all property on the site, with the exception for the Category B listed façade of 106 West Nile Street.
Planning permission and listed building are sought to extend for a further five years a previous consent for the
erection of a mixed use development comprising retail, office and residential accommodation, service area,
vehicular access and basement car parking following demolition and facade retention works (reference
03/03144/DC). The 2003 application was granted consent on 16 June 2004. These new applications are
submitted under section 42 of the Act to vary the statutory condition attached to all consents that development
must be implemented within 5 years.
The proposed development comprises 6725 sq metres of Class 1 retail floor space, 2100 sq metres of Class 4
office accommodation and 85 flatted residential dwellings. Twenty car parking space accessed from
West Nile Street are located in the basement. An internal service yard for the retail and office units is also
accessed from West Nile Street. The retail spaces comprise six units with mezzanine space on
Buchanan Street and two units on West Nile Street/Bath Street. The office accommodation is spread over two
floors of the complex and has two access points on West Nile Street.
The main area of residential accommodation is located in the upper floors and is designed around a central
courtyard and is accessed via an entrance lobby on West Nile Street. Lifts access all floors and a series of
corridors give covered routes to all flats. A generous landing area on the second floor links the internal
courtyard giving residents an alternative route to flats in good weather. A separate entrance to the residential
accommodation in the corner block at West Nile Street/Bath Street is located on West Nile Street.
The buildings are generally 7 stories high on Buchanan Street, Bath Street and West Nile Street with the
exception of an 11-storey block on West Nile Street which terminates the view eastwards along West Regent
Street. The proposed materials for the external walls comprise natural sandstone, copper, glass, stainless
steel, render and architectural cladding. The roof will be clad in a colour coded metal standing seam system
with upper soffits and edging details.
Background
As well as the 2004 consent, planning permission and listed building consents (reference 99/02835/DC and
99/02834/DC) were originally granted to Atlas Investments Ltd, in April 2000 for the erection of a commercial
development comprising retail, restaurant and leisure uses with associated access/loading area following
demolition of existing buildings. The application site was similar to the current application site and included the
corner block at 221 Buchanan Street/3-7 Bath Street but excluded the listed buildings at 106-126 West Nile
Street.
In November 2000 planning permission and conservation area consent (reference 00/00687/DC and
00/00689/DC) were granted to another applicant for the erection of a retail store following demolition of the
existing buildings at 221 Buchanan Street/3-7 Bath Street. This application was subsequently amended in
October 2001 when an alternative design for the same site was approved (reference 01/01496/DC). The
application was further amended in March 2007 (reference 06/02583/DC).
Parts of the site are in multi ownership and, despite previous consents, the market has been unable to
coordinate the site’s redevelopment. In April 2002, in an effort to unlock the development potential of the site,
the Council made contact with all interested parties with a view to evaluating their development proposals. The
Council held a series of meetings with all parties with property interests in the site between July and September
of that year.
This established that redevelopment was appropriate but confirmed that agreement on how this could be
achieved would be difficult. The Council had previously determined in October 2001 that the use of compulsory
purchase powers to facilitate development should be investigated in accordance with the Framework for the use
of CPO powers approved in October 2000. Approval was also given to a development brief for the site and all
parties were invited to submit proposals for redevelopment. Bids were submitted by two parties and these were
evaluated according to strict criteria. The Council agreed in April 2003 to the selection of Atlas Investments Ltd,
as the preferred developer for the site
The development brief was written at the time of the Finalised Draft of the Glasgow City Plan 2001 and listed
the relevant policies. In terms of urban design the brief covered: scale, massing and elevational form, sight
lines and views, building lines to the main frontages, materials, plant, ground floor and commercial frontages,
public art, public realm, lighting and parking provision. One of the main aims of the brief was to achieve a mixed
use development which engaged with the street in an interactive way. Significant emphasis was placed on
respecting the fairly small feu pattern in Buchanan Street and variety of building heights.
The planning and CPO process have been challenged and to date have resulted in three cases being heard by
the Court of Session in 2000, 2003 and 2004 and one by the House of Lords in 2006 . It is not the purpose of
this report to examine the legal aspects of these cases except to note that the most recent decision by the
House of Lords has found in favour of the Council’s approach to the selection of a preferred developer.
The Council made the compulsory purchase order in November 2007 and objections to this were lodged with
the Scottish Government in November and December 2007. A public local inquiry to consider this will take place
in September 2009.
An additional application to extend for a further five years the planning permission (reference 03/03144/DC) has
also been received. This application (reference 09/00851/DC) is the subject of a separate report to committee.
from the proposal.

Several Schemes for this block have been mooted over the years Alas the ADF Architects is the one that seems to be the one that has went to planning.

I also not that It
excludes land formerly occupied by 3-7 Bath Street/221 Buchanan Street and Albert Chambers at
11-15 Bath Street. Property to the south of the street block incorporating The Old Athenaeum is also excluded
from the proposal.


 

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Use your words
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6,389 Posts
Reminds me of that discussion we had on here a while back - the best thing this development, whatever happens, could incorporate would be a lane between Buchanan and West Nile Streets - with shop/bar-fronts encouraging footfall.
 

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MORI
Joined
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8,646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Agree with you on that one Milton, there is of course the lane on Bath street running southwards in to the back yards of the block which could enhance the footfall further, but a widend pathway/lane between WNS/BS would be a good way to enhance the predestrian traffic for the development.

GCC said:
26. Paving in Bath Street (from Bath Lane to West Nile Street) and West Nile Street (from Bath Street to 94
West Nile Street) shall be resurfaced/reconstructed to the specification detailed in Glasgow City
Council's Public Realm Strategy and agreed in writing with the Planning Authority prior to the
completion of the development.
Reason: In order to safeguard the property itself and the amenity of the surrounding area.
I also liked the idea of the Buchanan st Underground entrance moved back in to one of the actual development proposal which gives this part of the public realm a direct and obstacle free path which i feel is somtimes a deterent for retailers to consider taking a unit round about this area of BS IMO.
 

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smalltown boy
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3,432 Posts
I'm assuming this planning application is just a procedural thing, and they're not planning on going ahead with it any time soon?

I'd love to see something on this site like Herzog & de Meuron's Fünf Höfe (Five Courts) shopping arcade, in Munich. Large enough to be a draw in its own right, but small enough not to compete with the streets around in it
(cough, Buchanan Galleries extension, cough). Oh, and damned sexy:









You could have an enclosed gallery linking West Regent Street to Buchanan Street. It'd be fantastic. The above scheme for Glasgow, er, isn't. (Though better than what's there at the minute.)
 

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MORI
Joined
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8,646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah i guess it'll be something to do with the new regs announced by The Housing and Planning Minister as reported in the AJ yesterday.

AJ said:
The Housing and Planning Minister John Healey has announced that planning permission consents can be doubled from the current three years to six years, in a move to encourage building.
 

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smalltown boy
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3,432 Posts
Planning is a devolved issue, so I suspect that doesn't apply to Scotland.

What I meant is that I guess they are just applying to have the permission extended because they can (and have to, if they have even the vaguest intention of ever building it). And not because they intend to go ahead now.
 

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Use your words
Joined
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6,389 Posts
I also liked the idea of the Buchanan st Underground entrance moved back in to one of the actual development proposal which gives this part of the public realm a direct and obstacle free path which i feel is somtimes a deterent for retailers to consider taking a unit round about this area of BS IMO.
Me too - I'd like most of the underground entrances to be located on ground floors of buildings, rather than as standalone structures themselves.
 

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MORI
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8,646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
UK Parliament

Huge History on this one Crusty. the chap from the Italian restuarant was/has been made umpteen offers as well as other owners in that block, where other owners have come to some agreement the italian chap has dug his heels and went for the long hog to get his way-more than what the buildings are worth, he wants a free hold unit within the new development as well as £££'s in compensation... which is obviously not on, and i think the developers acomodated him up to a certain extent but i think his selfish side has got the better of him, which resulted in compulsory orders being considerd.

Something of the same situation as Argyle st hotel but with more owners being involved, its also become a huge clash of personalities between the developers and owners who feel they are being ousted by stealth by the biger so to say fish over the years since the 90s.

Last i chated to some of the owners they were all gearing up for the long haul to take this case to the Euorpean courts of human rights which was a few years ago, so i cant see this development resolving itself very soon. its the City council you are dealing with ! you and i know who will win in the end.
 

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Relaxed
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1,597 Posts
Agree with you on that one Milton, there is of course the lane on Bath street running southwards in to the back yards of the block which could enhance the footfall further, but a widend pathway/lane between WNS/BS would be a good way to enhance the predestrian traffic for the development.



I also liked the idea of the Buchanan st Underground entrance moved back in to one of the actual development proposal which gives this part of the public realm a direct and obstacle free path which i feel is somtimes a deterent for retailers to consider taking a unit round about this area of BS IMO.
In Helsinki they have a number of mini shopping malls, restaurant and bar areas (like Merchant Square) in the centres of their city blocks where the space tends to be wasted by dingy car parks and goods entrances. Some of them are a bit naff but all of them are better than nothing. I've never seen anything like that in this country.
 

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MORI
Joined
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8,646 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
ET

City shops project is hit by new delay​


Restaurant owner Constanzo Cacace said Atlas had failed to maintain the building​

PLANS to demolish an eyesore building on Scotland's top shopping street could be shelved for a further five years.
Glasgow councillors gave city-based Atlas Developments permission in 2004 to build shops, offices and 85 flats on a site at the top of Buchanan Street, opposite Buchanan Galleries.
A rival developer challenged the decision to let Atlas go ahead with the scheme and on three occasions the row ended up in the Court of Session in Edinburgh.
In 2006 it reached the House of Lords, which backed the council's decision to appoint Atlas as developer.
But further problems arose as the buildings in the block bounded by Buchanan Street, West Nile Street and Bath Street have a large number of owners.
The council failed to get them all to agree to sell up and in November 2007 made a compulsory purchase order in an attempt to get the development moving.
A number of owners objected to the move, including Constanzo Cacace, the owner of Italian restaurant Caprese.
He claimed Atlas had attempted to reduce the value of his property and business by refusing to take steps to maintain the property.
Mr Cacace said that resulted in the building no longer being wind and water tight, further reducing the value.
As a result of the objections, the Scottish Government has decided to hold a public local inquiry in September.
The delay will result in the original planning application, granted five years ago, expiring before work can begin.
As a result, councillors have agreed to allow the original planning permission to be continued for a further five years.
City council development and regeneration executive director Steve Inch said in a report: "It is regrettable the scheme that was approved five years ago has not yet been implemented.
"It is considered the scheme is still an acceptable solution for the site."
Planner Jim Patrick said Atlas was chosen by the council as the preferred developer and granted planning permission five years ago.
He added: "The application granted in 2004 is about to expire and the renewal is simply to put Atlas back in the position it was in five years ago.
"The current economic climate puts a question mark against the ability to develop a scheme of this scale so it seems appropriate to allow a further five years."
Atlas could not be contacted for comment.

Publication date 24/06/09
 

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Registered
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2 Posts
what did/has happened with the dispute with the italian restaurant that no-one i know had ever even heard of before this, let alone dined at - anyone know? :dunno:
Just because no-one you know has heard of this restaurant doesn't mean it doesn't exist and is not important to a lot of people. What people seem to forget is that this is a human being you are dealing with here, someone that came to this country many years ago making a lot of sacrifices to build up his business. This restaurant has been on Buchanan St 25 years, long before the Galleries and Concert Hall and is a family run affair. You may not have heard of it but a lot of people have and continue to dine there despite the run down condition of the building, non of which is the owners' fault. The umpteen offers he has received is a bit vague, it is actually 3 offers over the past 12 years, none of which were the market value of the property and car park at the rear, and all with ridiculous conditions attached. Since this is a family run business he wanted to remain where he was for his family to continue running on his retirement. He asked for a unit within the development which he was refused, he asked for a similar property in Buchanan St, this too was refused.

Put yourself in the shoes of a man who when he bought the property 25 years ago, put his home at risk if the business did not succeed and worked 18 hour days to make it a success. He bought this property when no developers were interested in doing anything at that end of Buchanan St. Now they are interested, he has to move out of their way and not be properly compensated for the loss of his business? How would you feel if a large offshore (non UK tax paying) developer knocked on the door of your home with a value of £200,000 and offered you £50,000 to leave so that they could build yet another shopping centre with billions of pounds of profit to them. Would you be happy to move aside, lose your home and be out of pocket for the greater good of another development?

Noone is disputing that this building has to be redeveloped, its condition has deteriorated badly in the past 10 years due to non maintenance from the developers who have left it to rot. FYI there are still 3 individual owners who have not sold, not just 1 owner. All of these owners want a fair price for their property. Atlas Investments who are the main developer have made no attempt to try and negotiate with any of the owners on a face to face basis preferring to send their ridiculous offers via a lawyers letter. Perhaps this farce would not still be going on if they had actually sat down with the owners and came to some agreement. Now noone knows what will happen since Atlas Investments parent company and several others within it have gone into administration and are being run by the bank. Where does this leave GCC's back to back agreement with Atlas since I doubt that GCC have the funding to CPO the remaining properties plus what Standard Commercial Properties own in the same block.

So gentlemen/ladies, when you are posting remarks about people, remember you may not always have the full story and try to walk in someones shoes before making a judgement of them.
 

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AirGlasgow.com
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2,727 Posts
ET

City shops project is hit by new delay​


Restaurant owner Constanzo Cacace said Atlas had failed to maintain the building​

PLANS to demolish an eyesore building on Scotland's top shopping street could be shelved for a further five years.
Glasgow councillors gave city-based Atlas Developments permission in 2004 to build shops, offices and 85 flats on a site at the top of Buchanan Street, opposite Buchanan Galleries.
A rival developer challenged the decision to let Atlas go ahead with the scheme and on three occasions the row ended up in the Court of Session in Edinburgh.
In 2006 it reached the House of Lords, which backed the council's decision to appoint Atlas as developer.
But further problems arose as the buildings in the block bounded by Buchanan Street, West Nile Street and Bath Street have a large number of owners.
The council failed to get them all to agree to sell up and in November 2007 made a compulsory purchase order in an attempt to get the development moving.
A number of owners objected to the move, including Constanzo Cacace, the owner of Italian restaurant Caprese.
He claimed Atlas had attempted to reduce the value of his property and business by refusing to take steps to maintain the property.
Mr Cacace said that resulted in the building no longer being wind and water tight, further reducing the value.
As a result of the objections, the Scottish Government has decided to hold a public local inquiry in September.
The delay will result in the original planning application, granted five years ago, expiring before work can begin.
As a result, councillors have agreed to allow the original planning permission to be continued for a further five years.
City council development and regeneration executive director Steve Inch said in a report: "It is regrettable the scheme that was approved five years ago has not yet been implemented.
"It is considered the scheme is still an acceptable solution for the site."
Planner Jim Patrick said Atlas was chosen by the council as the preferred developer and granted planning permission five years ago.
He added: "The application granted in 2004 is about to expire and the renewal is simply to put Atlas back in the position it was in five years ago.
"The current economic climate puts a question mark against the ability to develop a scheme of this scale so it seems appropriate to allow a further five years."
Atlas could not be contacted for comment.

Publication date 24/06/09
Is this a fucking piss take? :eek:hno:
 

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Registered
Joined
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69 Posts
Just because no-one you know has heard of this restaurant doesn't mean it doesn't exist and is not important to a lot of people. What people seem to forget is that this is a human being you are dealing with here, someone that came to this country many years ago making a lot of sacrifices to build up his business. This restaurant has been on Buchanan St 25 years, long before the Galleries and Concert Hall and is a family run affair. You may not have heard of it but a lot of people have and continue to dine there despite the run down condition of the building, non of which is the owners' fault. The umpteen offers he has received is a bit vague, it is actually 3 offers over the past 12 years, none of which were the market value of the property and car park at the rear, and all with ridiculous conditions attached. Since this is a family run business he wanted to remain where he was for his family to continue running on his retirement. He asked for a unit within the development which he was refused, he asked for a similar property in Buchanan St, this too was refused.

Put yourself in the shoes of a man who when he bought the property 25 years ago, put his home at risk if the business did not succeed and worked 18 hour days to make it a success. He bought this property when no developers were interested in doing anything at that end of Buchanan St. Now they are interested, he has to move out of their way and not be properly compensated for the loss of his business? How would you feel if a large offshore (non UK tax paying) developer knocked on the door of your home with a value of £200,000 and offered you £50,000 to leave so that they could build yet another shopping centre with billions of pounds of profit to them. Would you be happy to move aside, lose your home and be out of pocket for the greater good of another development?

Noone is disputing that this building has to be redeveloped, its condition has deteriorated badly in the past 10 years due to non maintenance from the developers who have left it to rot. FYI there are still 3 individual owners who have not sold, not just 1 owner. All of these owners want a fair price for their property. Atlas Investments who are the main developer have made no attempt to try and negotiate with any of the owners on a face to face basis preferring to send their ridiculous offers via a lawyers letter. Perhaps this farce would not still be going on if they had actually sat down with the owners and came to some agreement. Now noone knows what will happen since Atlas Investments parent company and several others within it have gone into administration and are being run by the bank. Where does this leave GCC's back to back agreement with Atlas since I doubt that GCC have the funding to CPO the remaining properties plus what Standard Commercial Properties own in the same block.

So gentlemen/ladies, when you are posting remarks about people, remember you may not always have the full story and try to walk in someones shoes before making a judgement of them.

I agree with the sentiments of the guy/gal who posted above. All too often big businesses have shat upon the little guy who is trying to do the best he can to get on. I'm sure the owner of the Italian Restaurant would be willing to move on if Atlas Investments gave him a fair and decent settlement, so it is up to Atlas do this if they want his property.

FAO Jo1904, you are best to ignore some of the tosspots on this forum, because at best the majority are nothing but cheerleaders for third-rate architects who are making an arse of our city.
 

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control yourself
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4,573 Posts
well, thanks for that, jo. none of its news to me though, and rather outwith the context of my enquiring as to whether anyone knew the outcome of the dispute.

newgoldendream, you would do well to heed jo's last point.
when you are posting remarks about people, remember you may not always have the full story and try to walk in someones shoes before making a judgement of them.
 
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