Canada's Flag

Taller said:

You seem to have a great deal of difficulty accepting that much of Canada's history is tied to Britain. Rather than try to change or erase our history, maybe you can just try to deal with it, because you are sounding like a broken record.

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Well, for that matter, much of the USofA's history is tied to Britain, too.

Anyways, from my vantage point, when I see the Union Jack (the 'Royal Union' flag), I think 'Britain', 'UK', etc; when I see the 'Red Ensign' flag (at any kind of distance, like hoisted on a flagpole, I think 'Province of Ontario' and when I see the 'Leaf' flag I think 'Canada'.

Mike

Taller said:

You seem to have a great deal of difficulty accepting that much of Canada's history is tied to Britain. Rather than try to change or erase our history, maybe you can just try to deal with it, because you are sounding like a broken record.

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Canada's history was tied to Britian, but we aren't any more. Canada is now an independent country and we should have independent symbols and insitutions. I don't want to rewrite history, I just want to chart our own path for the future. The Maple Leaf Flag is a good example of charting our own path.

kelw said:

WaterlooInvestor, I honestly don't know what you are trying to prove here. But I want to remind you that the provincial flags of Ontario and Manitoba are Red Ensigns and the flag of British Columbia incorporates the Union Flag.

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I was told the Canadian Red Ensign was "a purely Canadian flag regardless if you or others don't approve of the Union Flag being on it."

I disagree. I'm very proud of the Maple Leaf Flag, and wanted to see what other forumers thought.

Speaking as an Ontarian, I'd say to change Ontario's Flag.

bluenoser said:

A better question would have been "which do you prefer" or "was it a good idea to spend money adopting a new flag when only 50% of the population wanted to"... you really are starting to sound like a broken record man..

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It wasn't 50%:
"In 1958, an extensive poll was taken of the attitudes that adult Canadians held toward the flag. Of those who expressed opinions, over 80% wanted a national flag entirely different from that of any other nation, and 60% wanted their flag to bear the maple leaf."

"Do you feel the Maple Leaf helps promote Canadian independence?"

No. It shows we are a separate country from any other country, and it helped create a new feature, the "Canadian Pale" (A white square in the middle of a flag) which is kinda neat. But promoting independence? Not exactly the right word we're looking for. Sovereignty, yes, but it really did little to help us gain independence. Just an identity, of sorts.

Do you feel that the Maple Leaf flag brings pride to Canadians?

Absolutely.

Do you feel that only the Maple Leaf flag is purely Canadian?

No. The Red Ensign features the coat of arms of this nation, and reflects on our history and ties to the Commonwealth of Nations, as does the Royal Union Flag (Which is also official, alongside the Maple Leaf Flag).

Ontario's flag is like Canada's Red Ensign, the coat of arms of the province and the Royal Union Flag in the upper canton symbolizing the historical ties with Britain. Same goes for Manitoba.

And if you don't want to see the Ontario flag, your favourite city, Thunder Bay, is the place to go. They're rare up here. (Separatism; they're only found at government institutions and even then, many are worn or hung improperly. The city flag is almost as common as the Maple Leaf flag and is flown at almost every government building and some schools.)

Also, your question is sorely flawed, therefore I have refrained from voting.

K85 said:

Royal Union Flag 0 0%
Canadian Red Ensign 1 7.69%
Canadian Maple Leaf 13 100.00%

117.69%???

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People (I think) can choose multiple options

As an Australian I have to say that the current flag is much more identifiable with Canada. The old Red ensign was pobably the most British of the Commonwealth flags (Aus, NZ, etc) and a lot of people would have had difficulty realizing it represented a different nation.

The maple leaf was damn tricky to draw as a kid though when I had to represent Canada at my Primary (Elementary) school Olympic Games!

Also it would be good to note that every provincial flag of Canada has some UK symbolism on them (With the exception of Quebec which has French symbolism, also notice I said provincial, not Territorial), be it a lion(s), portion of the Union Jack, or a portion of one of the other constituent nations' separate Flag. Should we redisign all of those flags too? Remove all Historical Symbolism just to prove we are an independent nation?

I really don't see the point of this poll... if you were to ask this question on a world forum (if they were to exsist) in the mid-60s, I'll bet not many would have chosen the maple leaf. It's been taught for 4 decades now that that is our flag, so of course people are going to associate it to be more Canadian. Usually flags/capitals are taught of in other nations, not so much history/historical flags. I myself was never taught about the Red Ensign, so if I wouldn't have been curious about what our flag was before, I wouldn't have known.

Coffee Stain said:

@Waterloo, yea I think you should add which do you prefer as a question as well, but I can pretty much guarantee that the Maple Leaf will win an absolute majority here (90% +)...

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vid said:

Also, your question is sorely flawed, therefore I have refrained from voting.

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1ajs said:

lol gee what a stupid thread /poll...............

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Basically I was told the Red Ensign was a purely Canadian flag, something I disagree with. I wanted to keep "purely Canadian" in the question since that's what we were debating. I allowed multiple voting so if people felt both the Red Ensign and the Maple Leaf were purely Canadian they would be able to choose both. (ie. you don't have to choose either/or)

Although I agree "which do you prefer" is a better question. I can start a new poll if you think it would help clarify things.

vid said:

"Do you feel the Maple Leaf helps promote Canadian independence?"
No. It shows we are a separate country from any other country, and it helped create a new feature, the "Canadian Pale" (A white square in the middle of a flag) which is kinda neat. But promoting independence? Not exactly the right word we're looking for. Sovereignty, yes, but it really did little to help us gain independence. Just an identity, of sorts.

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I feel comfortable using the word sovereignty as well. The words are similar in meaning. ie. Sovereignty = Complete independence and self-government. A territory existing as an independent state.

vid said:

No. The Red Ensign features the coat of arms of this nation, and reflects on our history and ties to the Commonwealth of Nations, as does the Royal Union Flag (Which is also official, alongside the Maple Leaf Flag).

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Purely: in a pure manner; without admixture. merely; only; solely, entirely; completely

In my opinion, having another countries' flag (Union Jack) on the Red Ensign means that it is not completely Canadian.

In my opinion, the Royal Union Flag is purely a shared version of the British Union Jack. In my opinion, it is not a purely Canadian Flag, regardless that it was our Official Flag before 1965.

vid said:

Ontario's flag is like Canada's Red Ensign, the coat of arms of the province and the Royal Union Flag in the upper canton symbolizing the historical ties with Britain. Same goes for Manitoba.)

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Nate said:

Also it would be good to note that every provincial flag of Canada has some UK symbolism on them (With the exception of Quebec which has French symbolism, also notice I said provincial, not Territorial), be it a lion(s), portion of the Union Jack, or a portion of one of the other constituent nations' separate Flag. Should we redisign all of those flags too? Remove all Historical Symbolism just to prove we are an independent nation?

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Yes, I think we should. In my opinion, Ontario shouldn't have another countries' flag (Union Jack) on Ontario's Flag. IF any countries' flag is going to take up a portion of Ontario's Flag is should be Canada's Maple Leaf (notice I said IF, i'm not supporting this option) Ontario could have a Trillium Flag, or there could be a design competition to choose a purely Ontario Flag.

Nate said:

I really don't see the point of this poll... if you were to ask this question on a world forum (if they were to exsist) in the mid-60s, I'll bet not many would have chosen the maple leaf.

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Actually: "In 1958, an extensive poll was taken of the attitudes that adult Canadians held toward the flag. Of those who expressed opinions, over 80% wanted a national flag entirely different from that of any other nation, and 60% wanted their flag to bear the maple leaf."

Nate said:

It's been taught for 4 decades now that that is our flag, so of course people are going to associate it to be more Canadian. Usually flags/capitals are taught of in other nations, not so much history/historical flags. I myself was never taught about the Red Ensign, so if I wouldn't have been curious about what our flag was before, I wouldn't have known.

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Great point. However, just stop for a minute and think what you're also implying in relations to the monarchy thread (where this question regarding Canada's identity originated). Canada's monarchy has also been taught for decades now that it's our monarchy, yet Canadians are divided on whether to associate it as Canadian.