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China's giant economic sway

4668 Views 43 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  YelloPerilo
China's giant economic sway

By Eric J. Weiner
October 6, 2010

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-weiner-china-20101006,0,7617227.story

U.S. lawmakers threaten to punish Beijing for keeping the value of its currency artificially low. But guess who would win in a trade war?

Can anyone talk to China anymore?

It's an increasingly important question for the United States and the rest of the world to ponder as the emerging giant asserts itself globally.

The House voted overwhelmingly last week to give President Obama sweeping authority to impose steep tariffs on Chinese imports. The move was aimed at retaliating against Beijing's monetary policy, which essentially keeps the value of the nation's currency artificially low so Chinese manufacturers can dump cheap exports on developed economies.

Whether the Senate will go along with the plan is still open to debate. But it's probably more pertinent to ask exactly what China would do if the U.S. actually did slap harsh tariffs on its goods? Based on China's recent behavior, any rash moves along those lines could trigger a deeply bitter reaction and possibly an outright trade war that, frighteningly, the U.S. would not win.

Consider that before the president's appearance in front of the U.N. General Assembly in September he had a two-hour meeting with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao, in which he basically demanded that China stop manipulating its currency. China's response? Ho-hum. Precisely how much money do you owe us again?

Meanwhile, on the other side of the globe, Japanese manufacturing companies suddenly discovered that they'd been cut off from the rare earth minerals that they require to make high-tech products such as computers and cellphones as well as energy-efficient items like wind turbines and hybrid cars. What happened to Japan's rare earth imports? According to the Japanese government, China, which controls 93% of the global rare earth supply, decided to block shipments to Japan to score points in a diplomatic dispute. A few weeks earlier a Chinese fishing boat in Japanese waters crashed into a couple of Japanese coast guard ships. Japan seized the boat and arrested the captain. In response, China promptly detained four Japanese employees of Fujita Corp. on suspicion of filming a restricted military area in northern China.

So Japan proposed an exchange: the fishing boat captain in return for the four arrested Japanese citizens. But Japanese government officials say China balked and then, in an awesome display of economic power, simply cut off its rare earth shipments to Japan. The Chinese government denied the accusations, but true or not, Japan suddenly found itself in an unwanted trade war with its biggest trading partner. Through the first half of this year alone, China had bought $20 billion of Japanese government bonds and Chinese companies had invested roughly $120 million in Japanese businesses. This provided a needed boost to Japan's sagging economy.

Sensing the coming heat, the Japanese government acquiesced and freed the fishing boat captain on Sept. 24 with no strings attached. Only then did Beijing's rare earth minerals showdown ease. And last week, China released three of the Fujita employees it was holding. However, one Japanese citizen still remains in a Chinese prison cell, a bargaining chip for a later negotiation.

Why would China so brazenly challenge the world's economic powers like this? Because the country's leaders know what our leaders are only beginning to understand — that China would probably win a global trade war.

In March 2009, the Pentagon for the first time held a series of economic war games exercises. The soldiers were Wall Street traders and executives, economists and academics. The weapons were stocks, bonds and currencies. The participants were divided into teams: the U.S., China, Russia, Japan, the European Union and so on. Then the teams were presented with different scenarios — North Korea is imploding, a major global economy is melting down — and told to do what was in their best interests. Our intelligence experts watched as the economic conflicts played out.

What the exercises showed was that the U.S. consistently lost to China in economic warfare. Part of the reason was that the U.S. could be easily distracted by expensive side conflicts that sapped our economic strength. But the more important reason was that China could inflict real pain on the U.S. without feeling it at home. For instance, by simply moving the maturities of some of its $850 billion in Treasury holdings from 90 days to 60 days, it could cause chaos in the U.S. stock markets. Or China could sell just a trickle of its U.S. financial assets and signal that it didn't have confidence in the U.S. economy, setting off a panic here.

The overall lesson from the exercise was that, for all of our saber-rattling, in our weakened economic state we have to be careful about poking this dragon. And what's more, everyone involved knows it.

So returning to the original question: Can anyone talk to China anymore? Sadly, for the time being it appears the answer is no.

Eric J. Weiner is a financial journalist and author of, most recently, "The Shadow Market."

Copyright © 2010, Los Angeles Times
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^^Probably the meaning of the article is what happen if we didn't play nice. Why should everyone play un-nice and create a lot of problem?

US need to see China as what is it, it's still human. Wrote a scary article about rivalry and politicize everything is bad.

So far China problems mostly came from US.
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So returning to the original question: Can anyone talk to China anymore? Sadly, for the time being it appears the answer is no.
China is just trolling everyone really hard. And the US politicians need to stop whining about the currency manipulation. China is not the only country doing it; the US was doing it in the 70's and would be doing it now if it served the US economic interests in any way. It's not like other countries have a say about the US monetary policies either...

The thing I don't get is the fishing boat incident with the Japanese. If a Japanese fishing boat rammed into Chinese coast guard ships, what do you think would happen? It's only natural that Japanese authorities detain the offender. China would do the same, no doubt. What worries me is the imprisonment of four Japanese for "filming military targets". It's like resorting to North Korean modus operandi. Blehhhh.

"Our citizens don't have to follow your laws but your citizens have to follow ours". What kind of message is that to be sent to the world?
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The thing I don't get is the fishing boat incident with the Japanese. If a Japanese fishing boat rammed into Chinese coast guard ships, what do you think would happen? It's only natural that Japanese authorities detain the offender. China would do the same, no doubt. What worries me is the imprisonment of four Japanese for "filming military targets". It's like resorting to North Korean modus operandi. Blehhhh.

"Our citizens don't have to follow your laws but your citizens have to follow ours". What kind of message is that to be sent to the world?
North Koreans are allowed to travel freely? :lol:
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North Koreans are allowed to travel freely? :lol:
No, what does that have to do with anything?
No, what does that have to do with anything?
Your post implied that foreigners have to abide laws in NK, NKoreans don't have to abide to the laws when theyare in foreign countries.

You also implied that Diaoyutai is not Chinese territory by saying that the Chinese captain did not abide to Japanese laws.
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It's 'just' a few of endless cases of politicians using mere mortals doing their own biddings ...
Your post implied that foreigners have to abide laws in NK, NKoreans don't have to abide to the laws when theyare in foreign countries.

You also implied that Diaoyutai is not Chinese territory by saying that the Chinese captain did not abide to Japanese laws.
My post implied that detaining 4 people on the basis of bogus accusations was the North Korean thing to do in this situation.

Those islands are disputed territory and I couldn't care less who those belong to. If Chinese coast guard vessels were rammed by a Japanese fishing boat in the same territory, what kind of action should the Chinese coast guard take? Let the boat go? Don't think so.
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My post implied that detaining 4 people on the basis of bogus accusations was the North Korean thing to do in this situation.

Those islands are disputed territory and I couldn't care less who those belong to. If Chinese coast guard vessels were rammed by a Japanese fishing boat in the same territory, what kind of action should the Chinese coast guard take? Let the boat go? Don't think so.
That's Realpolitik for you, dude. :yes:
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The problem is that there is already a government agreement between Japan and China about how to handle the issue around the Diaoyu/Senkaku. The agreement specifies that neither country will apply their domestic law in the conflict. Japan broke the agreement. And that's it.
About the four JP workers. Do you know why they are there? They are sent by the JP government to destroy the Japanese wartime chemical weapons.

Chinese government has repeatedly urged JP government to ship the chemical weapons home then to do whatever they like with it. JP insisted that they should destroy it on the Chinese soil because they "would pollute Japanese environments".

Regarding the modus operandi North Korean, three of the workers have regretted their "mistakenly" filming and quickly released. In comparison, the Chinese captain was threatened and psychologically tortured more than two weeks before he was released without any serious legal explanation. How many Japanese and Japanese politicians have blared that "we'll never set him free without sentencing him because we are a country of rule of law". What a circus!
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That's Realpolitik for you, dude. :yes:
Pretty crappy politics. To me China's actions look like this:

"#$%& cooperation, I do what I want"

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The problem is that there is already a government agreement between Japan and China about how to handle the issue around the Diaoyu/Senkaku. The agreement specifies that neither country will apply their domestic law in the conflict. Japan broke the agreement. And that's it.
Wow, that's some prime real estate for serial killers if no laws are applied there. I repeat my earlier and unanswered question: What do you think the Chinese coast guard should have done in case the situation happened vice versa?
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About the four JP workers. Do you know why they are there? They are sent by the JP government to destroy the Japanese wartime chemical weapons.
Good.

Chinese government has repeatedly urged JP government to ship the chemical weapons home then to do whatever they like with it. JP insisted that they should destroy it on the Chinese soil because they "would pollute Japanese environments".
Less good.

Regarding the modus operandi North Korean, three of the workers have regretted their "mistakenly" filming and quickly released.
Somehow I doubt any filming of significant military targets ever took place. And if it did, the people should be punished according to Chinese laws about espionage, not released. You realize that those people would still be in China if the fishing boat incident didn't happen. The whole thing is just made up.

In comparison, the Chinese captain was threatened and psychologically tortured more than two weeks before he was released without any serious legal explanation.
Yeah, those goddamn Japanese always going around torturing people. Xinhua doesn't want to tell you the whole truth, I bet there was hot iron and pulling fingernails involved. Legal explanation? How about ramming into coast guard ships?

In How many Japanese and Japanese politicians have blared that "we'll never set him free without sentencing him because we are a country of rule of law". What a circus!
Yeah, rule of law. What a stupid concept! Laws should be bent and ignored however the party members see fit.

And you realize that the blaring from the direction of Japanese politicians is nothing compared to the blaring and fenqing riots in China, had the incident happened vice versa? China only wants to show that they can arrest whoever they see fit and Japan can #@%$ off. Real constructive.
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Good.



Less good.



Somehow I doubt any filming of significant military targets ever took place. And if it did, the people should be punished according to Chinese laws about espionage, not released. You realize that those people would still be in China if the fishing boat incident didn't happen. The whole thing is just made up.



Yeah, those goddamn Japanese always going around torturing people. Xinhua doesn't want to tell you the whole truth, I bet there was hot iron and pulling fingernails involved. Legal explanation? How about ramming into coast guard ships?



Yeah, rule of law. What a stupid concept! Laws should be bent and ignored however the party members see fit.

And you realize that the blaring from the direction of Japanese politicians is nothing compared to the blaring and fenqing riots in China, had the incident happened vice versa? China only wants to show that they can arrest whoever they see fit and Japan can #@%$ off. Real constructive.
Yes, you can doubt.

What we can do is just live our life.

Remember what the JP Prime Minister said last time when he was in China? He said there was too many strikes in Japanese owned factories in China and he thought this was a problem between Japan and China.
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Yes, you can doubt.
And you honestly believe that the four Japanese would have been arrested, had the fishing boat incident never happened?

What we can do is just live our life.
Since you obviously have a less-than-neutral stance here, let me put it this way: If a Japanese ship had rammed a Chinese coast guard ship and the authorities had detained the captain, do you think it would be acceptable if Japan made up some arbitrary shit and arrested four Chinese citizens?

Remember what the JP Prime Minister said last time when he was in China? He said there was too many strikes in Japanese owned factories in China and he thought this was a problem between Japan and China.
Time to get your war paint and little red flag ready and throw some stones in the windows of Japanese restaurants.
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Time to get your war paint and little red flag ready and throw some stones in the windows of Japanese restaurants.
All that is by miles more humane than what happens in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention the millions of crimes committed by the "West" and its pupil Japan in the not so distant past.
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Oh just be content with the fact the whole world is shit then we'll all feel much better.

Could write essays after essays about what governments and countries should do in xyz situations but now I'm off to watch Mock the Week.
And you honestly believe that the four Japanese would have been arrested, had the fishing boat incident never happened?



Since you obviously have a less-than-neutral stance here, let me put it this way: If a Japanese ship had rammed a Chinese coast guard ship and the authorities had detained the captain, do you think it would be acceptable if Japan made up some arbitrary shit and arrested four Chinese citizens?



Time to get your war paint and little red flag ready and throw some stones in the windows of Japanese restaurants.
I honestly believe what I believe, just like you believe what you believe, if you are sincere here.

War paint and little red flag is not our tradition. We are human, we are not monkeys. You spit in our face, we don't have to react like a Jack-in-the-Box to punch back in your face. We don't have that kind of muscle, nor enjoy that kind of level of adrenalin.
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All that is by miles more humane than what happens in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention the millions of crimes committed by the "West" and its pupil Japan in the not so distant past.
And what do these things have to do with the current situation?
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