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China-Japan Relations

First posted to the China Resurgent Forum on Jan. 25, 2005 at the following link:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=238054&messageid=1106721612&lp=1106721612

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Deteriorating China-Japan relationship.

In a recent article in peopledaily.com.cn the relationship between China and Japan has been portrayed as deteriorating into military threats. Japan has stepped up its propaganda about “China Threat” and have officially incorporated plans about “defending” Diaoyutai Islands which is clearly Chinese territory. Unfortunately, many in China is not only not condemning the renewed Japanese aggressiveness but are actually clamoring for China to make unilateral concessions. Needless to say these traitorous Chinese are those in the foreign trade sector.

Here is a quote from the peopledaily.com.cn article:

“Recently some people in China, failing to truly understand Japan's political intention and means, have claimed to want to "find solution for the China-Japan relations". But the prescription they wrote was so crude as to say that China should make a comprehensive concession toward Japan! The Japanese have made complete study of some Chinese's psychological weaknesses and have become tough even on questions whose nature is so clear as visits to the Yasukuni Shrine.”

In the quote above “Chinese’s psychological weaknesses” was mentioned. But actually this is not a surprise considering the Chinese government has put the dog collar of the evil WTO around its own neck and handed the leash into the hands of the Americans and the Japanese inviting them to take over China’s economy through unrestricted foreign direct investment or FDI. The CCP government has also stupidly made it an official policy to not promote any Chinese who could not speak English. The Chinese students were forced to learn English and told that they are not considered well educated unless they can speak English. Given such a set of Chinese official policies how could the Chinese people not lose their sense of national self-respect and lose their patriotism. And with such a loss of patriotism it is automatic that many would seek the favor of foreigners such as the Japanese by selling out Chinese national interests.

The CCP government should immediately wake up to the realization that its policies in recent years have corrupted the psychology of the Chinese people. Its policies to subsidize foreign trade has also made it profitable for the Chinese foreign traders to support the foreigners such as the Americans and the Japanese and against their own Chinese government so that they could be allowed by the Japanese and the Americans to export Chinese products to those countries. Ironically, as I have pointed out many times the profits of the foreign traders are not coming from foreigners but subsidized to them by the Chinese government through excessively low Chinese yuan. And the excessive subsidies to the foreign traders have turned the foreign traders into parasites that is sucking the economic life blood out of the Chinese internal economy so that even as foreign trade doubled and tripled in recent years, the incomes of the vast majority of the Chinese people such as the rural farmers and the urban poor have increased only slightly and have actually declined for tens of millions of the poorest Chinese.

Unfortunately, China today is just about as corrupt as the end of Qing Dynasty. On second thought China is even worse off than at the end of the Qing Dynasty because there were millions of patriotic students 100 years ago who were patriotic and saw the clear need to kick out the foreign devils and regain the Chinese sovereignty. Today with the “internationalist” CCP it has become fashionable to be unpatriotic. Chinese students couldn’t wait to get out of China to live in the fantastic foreign countries. And the reason why the Chinese students have come to be so unpatriotic is because the CCP have brainwashed them into thinking being Chinese is inferior by telling them constantly that they must learn from the foreigners and can only be superior if they can turn themselves into copies of foreigners by speaking English and absorbing foreign culture. The “psychological weakness” mentioned by the peopledaily.com.cn article is the carefully nurtured product of the stupid CCP policies. And the Chinese nation is now exposed to mortal danger because of stupid policies. The “Chinese Century” is about to end with a whimper before it even got started!

Due to the stupid CCP polices, China’s economy is on the verge of being bought out by foreigners. More than 50% of China’s foreign trade is already controlled by foreigners. At least 50% of China’s vital industries such as the auto industry have already been controlled by foreign companies. And if the stupid CCP officials carry through their “obedience” to the evil WTO and allow unrestricted foreign ownership of China’s vital industries then foreigners will own almost all of China’s economy. Then the Chinese military will become servants of foreign countries defending their ownership of China against the Chinese people themselves. If the truth be told, foreigners today own more of China then they ever did before the WW2.

It is against this sorry backdrop that many cynical Chinese have turned traitorous and clamor for concessions to foreigners such as the Japanese so that they could continue their lucrative foreign trade and be superior to the rest of the Chinese people.

I hope the Chinese people can wake up in time and implement my 12 guidelines. They must realize the evil of the WTO. They must realize that subsidized foreign trade will only impoverish the Chinese domestic economy while enriching only a relatively small number of Chinese foreign traders and mainly benefit only the foreign consumers. They must realize that the trillions of yuans subsidized to the foreign traders have reduced China’s ability to implement critical programs such as social programs to give aids to the aged and the inform, to expand and upgrade China’s military, to expand and upgrade China’s education especially at the highest level, to expand science and technology research and development, and to expand the critically necessary urbanization of the rural farmers as the main engine in the expansion of China’s internal economy.

It is clear that the CCP government under Hu and Wen is simply drifting without concrete programs and guidelines to direct China’s growth and development. It is just allowing the economy to be stolen by the foreign traders which will inevitably turn China into a degraded colony again. On the other hand if the CCP government could follow my 12 guidelines then China will quickly develop the most advanced high technologies to raise the productivity of the Chinese people to the highest level in the world and make the Chinese economy as big as all the rest of the world’s economies combined. And with the most advanced technologies and the biggest economy, China could deploy the most lethal military in the world to deal with puny little Japan whose economy will only be some 1/10 of China’s fully developed economy and whose military hardware would be primitive compared to China’s most advanced weapon systems in the world. Then the Chinese people would be proud to be Chinese and be patriotic in the defense of China’s sovereignty.

My 12 guidelines for the rapid development of China’s economy:

1. China’s store of wealth should be in terms of the knowledge base of its people and in the productive facilities and infrastructures that are owned by the Chinese people;

2. Because of the first statement, China should implement specific programs to rapidly increase the education of its people especially in higher science and engineering education; special programs should be implemented to educate some 1 million science and engineering doctorates within 10 years and ultimately educate some 5 million science and engineering doctorates within 30 years. These special education programs should provide full scholarship to any qualifying student, especially those in the rural areas, who do not have the financial means to participate in the special advanced educational program;

3. Also because of the first statement, China should implement wide-ranging science and engineering R&D to advance China’s high tech knowledge so that it may quickly equal and ultimately surpass any foreign countries in terms of high tech products thus minimizing the need for China to import high tech products while at the same time enable Chinese companies to export high tech products of China’s own. Since the high tech products will be made with highly skilled and highly paid scientists and engineers and technicians, it will minimize the need to subsidize exports thus making foreign trade beneficial to China as a whole;

4. To raise the overall economic level of China, the rural farmers must be relocated to the urban areas where they can be put to work more productively in manufacturing and service sectors;

5. Urbanization of the farmers should be understood to be not the building of luxury office towers, luxury hotels, or luxury housings that only “rich” foreign investors with their over valued dollars or heavily subsidized “rich” Chinese exporters can afford. Urbanization should be understood to be putting the farmers to work in the urban settings to build their own housings, manufacture their own consumer goods, and provide their own services. Only when urbanization can be done in a bootstrapping operation will it be self-sustaining and long lasting, unaffected by external forces or conditions such as recession or inflation or political turmoil in foreign countries;

6. With the understanding from the above, it is clear that China’s creation of wealth does not depend on foreign factors. Therefore, China should concentrate on the internal development and minimize the insidious “subsidized” export which is emasculating the Chinese economic development;

7. Specifically China should withdraw immediately from the evil WTO which is nothing more than a dog collar around China’s economic neck and provides the control by means of which the foreigners are taking over China’s economy and turning it into an economic colony. If China lost control of its economy, it will quickly lose control of its political sovereignty and military security as well;

8. Following the withdrawal from the evil WTO, China should ban all foreign direct investments (FDI) and allow foreign access to China’s market through joint ventures (JV) only which are predicated on real transfer of technologies and limited to 10% for the foreign partners. China should make a distinction between FDI which is foreign direct investment made by non-ethnic Chinese of foreign citizenship and OCI which is overseas Chinese investments made by ethnic-Chinese of foreign citizenship. Ethnic Chinese of foreign citizenship are no different from Chinese citizens who have never left China. They will not transfer their capital and accumulated profits overseas but will leave them inside China on a long term basis. Because of this there is no difference between OCI and domestic investments and should be encouraged by the Chinese government;

9. China should trade by negotiating bilateral trade treaties and bilateral investment treaties that will allow China to implement an enlightened protective trade policies that would protect the fledgling high tech and farming industries while they consolidate and open those sectors that are already competitive to foreign competition on genuinely equal competitive rules;

10. China must immediately raise the value of the RMB by some 10% to 20% at a fixed peg, and continue to raise the value of the RMB steadily to full PPP value, while maintaining a fixed peg after each increase, within 7 to 10 years at which time it could allow a wider trading range of some 10%; ultimately when the Chinese economy has reached full development the peg can be removed totally as the Chinese yuan will be the strongest currency in the world backed by an economy that is as big as all the rest of the world’s economy combined;

11. China must immediately implement a fuel cell/hydrogen transportation system to be totally free of oil imports within 10 years. China must also implement a program to build some 1,000 nuclear power plants within 30 years to make China completely energy self-sufficient;

12. While the Chinese government must direct the overall development such as urbanization, education and science and technological R&D, etc., yet it must encourage the development of private enterprises so that eventually all the enterprises in China will be owned by the Chinese people. Only a privately owned economy will be motivated and dynamic to provide the most advanced goods and services.

With the implementation of the above policies, China’s economy will grow rapidly with rapid increases in the knowledge base of the Chinese people and the rapid increases in the productivity of the Chinese workers which will increase their incomes thus enabling them to afford the highest standard of living in the world. And with the largest economy with the most advanced technologies, China will be able to deploy the most powerful military to guarantee that the humiliation of the 19th and 20th centuries at the hands of the barbaric foreign aggressors will never be repeatedly again. With the traditional benevolence of the Chinese civilization, China will be able to lead the entire world to an unprecedented era of global peace and prosperity the like of which has never been seen before.

To read the peopledaily.com.cn article referred to above, please go to the following link:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200501/23/eng20050123_171612.html

To read my post on how Chinese exporters are parasites on the rest of the Chinese economy please go to the following link:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=238054&messageid=1105667800&lp=1105667800

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This article may be re-posted provided attribution of source is given.
 

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Foreign technology is needed if only to be copied. Do not forget that 40+% of GDP growth has been direct foreign investment

Shallow measures like English proficiency are only meant to increase the competence of Chinese in dealing with foreigners; to be monolingual would only invite condescension - look at what ridicule English dominance in the United States causes. In no way do these policies interfere with national identity; English education is reaching high tide at the same time as anti-American sentiment, for example.

China is doing fine, it just takes time. :)
 

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Liang1a said:
7. Specifically China should withdraw immediately from the evil WTO which is nothing more than a dog collar around China’s economic neck and provides the control by means of which the foreigners are taking over China’s economy and turning it into an economic colony. If China lost control of its economy, it will quickly lose control of its political sovereignty and military security as well;

8. Following the withdrawal from the evil WTO, China should ban all foreign direct investments (FDI) and allow foreign access to China’s market through joint ventures (JV) only which are predicated on real transfer of technologies and limited to 10% for the foreign partners. China should make a distinction between FDI which is foreign direct investment made by non-ethnic Chinese of foreign citizenship and OCI which is overseas Chinese investments made by ethnic-Chinese of foreign citizenship. Ethnic Chinese of foreign citizenship are no different from Chinese citizens who have never left China. They will not transfer their capital and accumulated profits overseas but will leave them inside China on a long term basis. Because of this there is no difference between OCI and domestic investments and should be encouraged by the Chinese government;
I agree with the other guidelines but these 2..Sounds more like going back to communism and having a closed economy once again.If it ever happens you can forget about technology transfers or any high tech industry funding to flock to your country.You think the Chinese can stand on their own feet and the foreigners will ever bring in real technology transfers to your country without any significant share as part of the deal?The only things that are attracting them today are the cheap labour force and the open policy that you have.China hasn't reach the level yet to implement the these conservative policies.You still have corruptions to deal with and the closed up mentality that need to be corrected.Things such as the internet filtering and limited freedom hinders many foreign ethnic Chinese from investing there.But the huge market is enticing enough to many.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
China can advance independently.

I agree with the other guidelines but these 2..Sounds more like going back to communism and having a closed economy once again.
Nationalism is not communism. Expansion of the internal domestic economy is not closing the economy.

If it ever happens you can forget about technology transfers or any high tech industry funding to flock to your country.
China should not look to technology transfer in the long term anyway. If China can only get second hand technology from other countries it will never be the most advanced country in the world. China should develop its own technology which could easily be much better than anything it could get from other countries.

You think the Chinese can stand on their own feet and the foreigners will ever bring in real technology transfers to your country without any significant share as part of the deal?
China can certainly stand on its own feet. No doubt about it. All it needs to do is educate millions of science and engineering world class doctorates and give adequate amounts of funding for R&D.

The only things that are attracting them today are the cheap labour force and the open policy that you have.
China should reduce its foreign trade and shift away from the cheap labor low tech exports. China will remain poor if it continues to rely on cheap labor low tech exports. If foreign investors are being attracted by China's cheap labor then the sooner they leave the better it will be for China.

You can go to the following link to read about the danger and disadvantage of trading under unequal conditions:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=238054&messageid=1102474161&lp=1103677585

China hasn't reach the level yet to implement the these conservative policies.
China has already reached a very high level of technology. It is being held back by the wrong policies implemented by the CCP government due to the wrong understanding of economic principles. China already has caught up if not surpassed America's rocket technologies as well as satellite technologies. China also can build its own nuclear power plants. China has the funding to develop its own cars but is miss-using these funding. For example, a Chinese company has recently bought the British Rover for a couple of billion dollars when that money could have easily funded the development of a superior Chinese car. Another Chinese company is planning to buy IBM for a couple of billion dollars when that money could also be used to develop a superior personal computer to out-compete IBM as well as any other PC makers in the world.

You still have corruptions to deal with and the closed up mentality that need to be corrected.Things such as the internet filtering and limited freedom hinders many foreign ethnic Chinese from investing there.But the huge market is enticing enough to many.
There certainly is corruption. I condemn the CCP government for it. However, that is no reason why Chinese economy could not forge ahead. For that matter there is also corruption in America such as Enron and Martha Stewart to name two.

Investment from ethnic Chinese of foreign citizenship is helpful but not critical to China's internal development. Given the large number of domestic Chinese and the small number of foreign ethnic Chinese it would take a large set of bad policies for China to be unable to progress without the help of ethnic Chinese of foreign citizenship.

In the end China would do a lot better to rely on its own technologies which it could develop by shifting subsidies currently given to support cheap exports to R&D. China could expand its internal economy by expanding the urbanization of the farmers. There is very little need to trade if China could produce all of its own needs and limit imports to essential things like lumber and platinum and exports to high tech products.
 

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liang i want to know why you are against WTO..without foreign investment China could not maintain a high growth rate for the past two decades. and there's nothing wrong with learning foreign languages..it allow people to better communicate and to better understand people from other parts of the world. although i do believe students should have choices when they learn foreign languages.and english should not be made compulsory..yes english is important..but french german spanish japanese korean etc are also important.

I agree with most of your 12 guidelines..and frankly speaking Chinese government is doing such things, have you ever heard of the 863 program? however there's a process, we lacked behind for 2 centuries, you cant just expect china to be technologically advanced overnight. it takes time. and since we are very good at faking, eventually we will master whatever technologies foreigners have. Take telecommuications for example, giants such as Motorola, Nokia and Nortel are already worried about emerging chinese companies Huawei Technology and ZTE Corp. Huawei has just received contract to build 3G network for the Netherlands. It takes time but eventually we will get there.

and btw this article rarely talks about sino-japan relationship.....
 

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lol...i remember constantly hearing news about the struggle for diaoyutai when i was still a little kid living in taiwan. in case you don't know, taiwan, like china and japan, also claims diaoyutai for itself. groups of taiwanese people have landed on diaoyutai many time to raise the flag there and claim the island for themselves before the japanese authority chases them off the island.

personally, i find the fact that 3 nations are trying to clamor for a group of small islands to be quite amusing.
 

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>>sen
Republic of China was the ruling party of China back in 1920s
People's Republic of China are successor of Republic of China and therefor they are responsible for this letter at some extent. We should view this letter more as historical fact. You woulnd't say Japanese goverment today are completely not responsible for what Japan did during WW2 just because the goverment now and back then were ruled by different party, would you?
 

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KMT has said many more things, but frankly, nothing's practical and convincing... u get me?
And honestly, in WWII, Japanese government distributed a lot of pics&words showing how the Chinese ppl welcame the invaders, any validity?
 
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I don't known who that island belong to, but that island sure contain a huge amount of oil and gas under beneath it. There's going to be a War between the two country if both don't act calmly because I heard that Japan have change their Consitution so that they can built up their army force after the incident of China nuclear submarine went into Japan water border. Japan has triple the amount of money for army after that incident so if don't act calmly then there will be a war between the two country.
 

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Nobody's that stupid... The war between two giants can only lead to sheer chaos, and there will be no winner. Don't believe scholars' shit, they know nothing. Both countries will only adopt soft means(economy, finance...) to beat each other... Without China's help Japan would be a shithole, without Japan China would be forced to a steeper world position. The only possibilities are continuous domestic depression in Japan or a giving out of China's resources, and the winner would be the West. Without the two giants I don't know who can protect Asia from Western invasion...
 

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Gov't to take over ownership of lighthouse on disputed island

The government is poised to take over the ownership of a privately owned lighthouse on a disputed island in Okinawa Prefecture, a move that is certain to provoke China and Taiwan as they both claim the island, government sources said Wednesday.
The government has initiated a procedure for registering the lighthouse on Uotsuri Island, Okinawa Prefecture, as a state-owned asset under the Civil Code. The move comes after a fisherman living on Ishigaki Island, Okinawa Prefecture, who currently owns the lighthouse, offered to give it to the government.

After the procedure is completed, the Japan Coast Guard is set to manage the lighthouse.

China and Taiwan both claim the Senkaku Islands including Uotsuri Island and will certainly react sharply to the move. In Japan, the islands fall under the Ishigaki Municipal Government.

In April 2002, the Japanese government concluded lease contracts with the private owners of Uotsuri and other islands. After Chinese activists illegally landed on Uotsuri Island in March last year, Tokyo banned anybody from landing on any of the islands without its permission. (Mainichi Shimbun, Japan, Feb. 9, 2005


http://www12.mainichi.co.jp/news/mdn/search-news/923397/china20island-0-1.html

Looks like Japanese goverment is moving forward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
"liang i want to know why you are against WTO..without foreign investment China could not maintain a high growth rate for the past two decades."

Please go to the following links to read my objections to the evil WTO.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=238054&messageid=1057275502&lp=1057275502

It is simply not true that China cannot grow without foreign investment or foreign trade. This might have been true 30 years ago or even 20 years ago. But it is certainly not true anymore. Furthermore, reducing FDI and foreign trade is not the same as eliminating them completely. Wherever it is beneficial to have foreign investment it could be done through joint venture predicated on real transfer of technologies but limiting foreign ownership to 10% or less. This is still profitable for foreign partners as China's market will grow to some 4 to 5 times bigger than the US market so 10% of Chinese market is equal to 50% of the American market. Anybody who has 50% of the American market would be very pleased.

Please read why I think "subsidized" exports is parasitic and harmful at the following link:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=238054&messageid=1105667800&lp=1105667800

In the end China could grow much faster by advancing its own hi tech and expanding its own internal market. And shifting the subsidies given to the subsidized exports to the expansion of Chinas hi tech and internal development will allow China to grow faster.
 
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no country can grow without FDI, how can u advance into hi tech in sudden day or years. FDI not only consitute money into the country, but it also help advance that country technolgy through trade and competition. Without FDI, there won't be any competition, that mean no WTO, going back to communism. Communism fear WTO because they don't want to gave up power and money. That why we still have communism in this world. As long as a country have communisn, it will not growth to it full potential because communism never care for anybody but themselves. Leaving WTO would leave china in death, look at how much FDI pour into china year, like 60 billion, imagine how much people have been hire, how much new product have come out and benefit the citizen. Only communism fear WTO.
 

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Uh oh...

Not a good idea to venture into this thread at this time, I must say....
 
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hahaha huaiwei, hey it just simple comments. Anyway, it the dispute between the two country, I don't even want to get involved. However, I must say this topic is going to get hotter.
 

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BCbud said:
>>sen
Republic of China was the ruling party of China back in 1920s
People's Republic of China are successor of Republic of China and therefor they are responsible for this letter at some extent. We should view this letter more as historical fact. You woulnd't say Japanese goverment today are completely not responsible for what Japan did during WW2 just because the goverment now and back then were ruled by different party, would you?
Sorry man, Just add a smple comments here as Republic of China ( ROC ) had never been withdrawn before and even now ;)

Go to >>>>>> 外交部:中華民國擁有釣魚台列嶼主權

Go to >>>>> Taiwan protests Tiaoyutai takeover
 
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