[NewTroll]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8152800.stm

In the same period in Birmingham, there were 80,900 more public sector jobs while private jobs fell by 55,000. In Manchester the public sector accounted for 59% of new jobs created.

Report here:

http://www.centreforcities.org/publicsectorcities

hno:

The figures in the report are PUA, which are these, apparently:

http://www.socd.communities.gov.uk/socd/Images/SOCD_OverMap.gif

[Although Coventry's not mentioned in this report, I've read a report that states that 18,000 private sector jobs have been lost in Coventry over the last 10 years and the city's economy is heavily reliant on the council, NHS and Two universities.]

Soooo, with private sector employment falling due to low demand for goods and services - and the public sector having grown to stalinist proportions... I wonder what Gordo is thinking when he looks at the tax receipts this year and tries to work out how to pay for things?

 

[skybluecity]

Soviet Britain.

History repeats itself again. The Labour Party will never learn.

They set about creating 'new' jobs - but they're not real jobs, they're not in any way productive. We have countless new quangos, an army of outreach workers and racial awareness officers and for a while unemployment falls and the Labour Party pat themselves on the back and tell us what a good job they have done.

But it is unsustainable. No Labour government in history has left office with unemployment lower than when it entered. This one is no different.

 

[U475 Foxtrot]

Not exactly an impartial source but I thought this was interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-towns-half-population-relies-state-job.html

 

[hoody]

All labour constituencies (bar two). They can kiss good bye to those seats.

 

[edgexedge]

but what is a 'public sector' job?

are they just national government jobs, or also including local gov?
what about Network Rail, Royal Mail etc


take somewhere like Warwick:
theres both the district council & the county council based there
3 hospitals
county courts

so lots of public sector jobs
but that has always been the case
county towns & the large cities have always had more public sector jobs than elsewhere, & the proportion is always going to be high.


as for those figures, & what connection they have with political parties:

they are over 10 years, & in that period various councils have changed control, so some of the numbers will be during periods when the Tories were in control.
national government policies dont stop when the government changes, so some of the increases in the first years will be due to any of the previous governments policies.
during the previous 10 years, 1988-1998, public services had not been a priority.

as for Birmingham, the population has been growing since 2001, creating extra demand for public services.

 

[hoody]

I'd say it is anything that is paid from the public pocket, although not necessarily subsidised.

I.e. Teachers, Nurses, Planning Officers, Bin men, Librarians etc

Network Rail is private as to is Royal Mail, but are heavily subsidised by government.

 

[edgexedge]

I'd say it is anything that is paid from the public pocket, although not necessarily subsidised.

I.e. Teachers, Nurses, Planning Officers, Bin men, Librarians etc

Network Rail is private as to is Royal Mail, but are heavily subsidised by government.

well thats going to include outsourced IT contracts, property companies that lease offices to government depts, BAE etc
all paid for from public funds

or is it just the staffing thats the public bit, ie employed by an actual government or council dept.
that would then exclude teachers & nurses, as they are employed by the individual schools & nhs trusts.


its such a formless thing to define, that any figures that come from it are useless.



'isnt it awful that the public are paying for an extra 100 people in the area'

well, do you like your 10 extra police, 10 extra nurses, 10 extra teaching staff & special needs support, the extra GP at the local surgery etc etc


the populace is stupid, & is too easily lead by parts of the media, who have no interest in the country whatsoever


do i care about who somebody is employed by?
no, why should i?

surely the important thing is that they have a job, & are therefore a productive member of society, earning a living, paying tax, being a role model for their kids (if they have any) etc etc


</reality>
:lol:

 

[i_like_concrete]

do i care about who somebody is employed by?
no, why should i?

surely the important thing is that they have a job, & are therefore a productive member of society, earning a living, paying tax, being a role model for their kids (if they have any) etc etc


</reality>
:lol:

The problem might come when the government (central and local) have a massive wage bill to pay but a very limited income. There's no point offering loads of jobs to people in small towns and then boom, public spending cuts mean jobs have to go and so the problem of long term unemployment and localised economic stagnation hasn't really been solved at all. There's nothing wrong with public sector jobs as long as they are sustainable.

 

[NewTroll]

but what is a 'public sector' job?

are they just national government jobs, or also including local gov?
what about Network Rail, Royal Mail etc


take somewhere like Warwick:
theres both the district council & the county council based there
3 hospitals
county courts

so lots of public sector jobs
but that has always been the case
county towns & the large cities have always had more public sector jobs than elsewhere, & the proportion is always going to be high.


as for those figures, & what connection they have with political parties:

they are over 10 years, & in that period various councils have changed control, so some of the numbers will be during periods when the Tories were in control.
national government policies dont stop when the government changes, so some of the increases in the first years will be due to any of the previous governments policies.
during the previous 10 years, 1988-1998, public services had not been a priority.

as for Birmingham, the population has been growing since 2001, creating extra demand for public services.

There's only one hospital in Warwick.

It's nothing to do with population growth - which isn't that much anyway, and Brum's population was dropping for years before 2001 so it's probably back in the same position it was in the past - the fact is that the private sector has been decimated and the public sector has grown to levels that are comparable to soviet Russia.

The growth in public sector employment was actually negative when the tories were in power. Labour use the public sector to keep unemployment down artificially.

The tories believe in encouraging business to generate wealth, not creating 120,000 pound jobs for "Racial Awareness Managers" in city councils.

Try seeing the Guardian job section on Wednesday (Public sector jobs - pages and pages of it) and then on Thursday (IT/Software jobs - about 1 page).

Certainly the infrastructure for councils and hospitals is going to employ a lot of people, but you still need private sector to generate the wealth and keep the useful skills we need to make things or create services we can sell.

As the report highlights - this spending is going to have to be cut, and places that have seen huge growth are going to suffer.

Same as in the 1980s! [In the 1970s under Labour most of the manufacturing was nationalised, therefore people who worked for the car, machine tool, aircraft, steel firms were state funded employees!]

Ah, and then there's the huge pension problem...

 

[NewTroll]

well thats going to include outsourced IT contracts, property companies that lease offices to government depts, BAE etc
all paid for from public funds

or is it just the staffing thats the public bit, ie employed by an actual government or council dept.
that would then exclude teachers & nurses, as they are employed by the individual schools & nhs trusts.


its such a formless thing to define, that any figures that come from it are useless.



'isnt it awful that the public are paying for an extra 100 people in the area'

well, do you like your 10 extra police, 10 extra nurses, 10 extra teaching staff & special needs support, the extra GP at the local surgery etc etc


the populace is stupid, & is too easily lead by parts of the media, who have no interest in the country whatsoever


do i care about who somebody is employed by?
no, why should i?

surely the important thing is that they have a job, & are therefore a productive member of society, earning a living, paying tax, being a role model for their kids (if they have any) etc etc


</reality>
:lol:

Those things are important, but completely irrelevent to what has happened.

Governments use taxation to fund public services (and benefits systems - and corporation tax barely covers it these days). Tax receipts are down due to the number of private companies making a loss or shutting up shop.

 

[NewTroll]

The problem might come when the government (central and local) have a massive wage bill to pay but a very limited income. There's no point offering loads of jobs to people in small towns and then boom, public spending cuts mean jobs have to go and so the problem of long term unemployment and localised economic stagnation hasn't really been solved at all. There's nothing wrong with public sector jobs as long as they are sustainable.

Exactly.

 

[edgexedge]

The problem might come when the government (central and local) have a massive wage bill to pay but a very limited income. There's no point offering loads of jobs to people in small towns and then boom, public spending cuts mean jobs have to go and so the problem of long term unemployment and localised economic stagnation hasn't really been solved at all. There's nothing wrong with public sector jobs as long as they are sustainable.

which is exactly the same with 'private jobs'

maybe were over-populated?
maybe some things are now more efficient to the extent that we dont need so many people to do them? or that the people that are doing them can now do more of them?

 

[M€trol1nk]

The report describes what a public sector job is, it also describes the different scenario's if Health and / or Education areprotected from any cuts.